Analiza: Welcome to the women of color rise Podcast. I'm Analiza Quiroz Wolf, proud Filipino American executive leadership coach and former CEO of a nonprofit and Captain in the US Air Force. I'm also the author of a myth of success for women of color's guide to leadership. It's based on the lessons learned of many women of color leaders, including those on this podcast, we talk with successful CEOs and C suite women leaders of color and learn about their leadership journeys. I'm on a mission to support having more diverse leaders at the table. If you're a woman or women of color who want to sit at that table, you're in the right place. Now let's get into today's show.

I'm really excited to be here with Dr. Shirley M. Collado, she is the president and CEO of College Track, the most comprehensive college completion nonprofit in the country. She's nationally known for designing and implementing innovative approaches that center equity and expand student access and success. Dr Collado previously served as president of Ithaca College, Executive Vice Chancellor and Chief Operating Officer at Rutgers University Newark, and Executive Vice President of the Posse Foundation, where she scaled its operations nationally. She's a first generation college graduate and a Brooklyn born daughter of Dominican immigrants and the first Dominican American in the US to serve as president of a four year institution. Shirley, I'm so excited about this conversation. Thank you so much for being here.

Shirley: It's great to be here. Analiza, great to see you,

Analiza: Shirley. I'd love to start with identity. We shared a little bit about background here, but how did that shape your career?

Shirley: Well, in terms of my identity, and I should say so, my last name is Collado, and my parents would not keep me honest if I didn't say that. And so, you know, I grew up in Brooklyn, New York, and really at the intersection of so many things, but strongly identify as an afro Latina, as a first born Dominican American with deep roots in Brooklyn and Sunset Park, specifically with parents who worked all the time. And you know, my dad drove a cab in New York City, and my mom worked in a factory alongside her mother and her sister, the eldest of three, I raised both of my brothers while my parents grew up as adults and as first time immigrants in the US during a time of, you know, great change in New York City, and so that was also deeply complimented by significant activism locally in our community, and a grandmother, maternal grandmother, who was a real matriarch and force in my life, had a huge impact on me so in so many ways. I mean, you read my bio so generously, I've had many firsts in my career, I have pioneered in a number of spaces. Although I tell people all the time I'm not that unique or outstanding. There are incredible young people all over this country in all kinds of classrooms in all kinds of locations. And so I guess the most important thing that I would say around my identity is I come from humble beginnings and stay very true to that, and I just have consistently been fortunate enough to be surrounded by people who understand my relentless need to not check my identity at the door that women of color add texture and multifaceted ways of leading and being. And of course, with age and deeper experience, I've gotten more comfortable in what that means for me as a leader, even when I sat in many spaces as the first, as the only. And you know, I'm just leaning into what it really means to be a multi faceted person, especially as we go into such an important election year and think about just the role that so many women have played in the history of this country, and in particular in education and youth development work?

Analiza: Shirley, the concept of not checking your identity at the door. Have you always had that? Was that something as a young girl you believed in from the get go?

Shirley: Yeah, that's a great question, you know, because I was the first born, and I really believe that my father wanted a son first, right? I grew up in a traditional Catholic Dominican household where roles were very specified, and my parents did not have the luxury of. Having a boy first, who could do all these things, right? I think, you know, I'm a psychologist. I was quite the parentified child. You know, like many children of immigrants, especially those who are working and don't always have the financial resources, you were given enormous responsibilities at a very young age, and I certainly was in that category. So because of that, and my father really not having the choice of, you know, protecting me in a perfect protected box, I got to do things that were pretty, you know, extraordinary and big for my age. And so I grew up with parents who really empowered my way of being in the world, and I didn't feel like there were that many things that I couldn't do. And that also comes at a cost, right? Because I had enormous responsibilities. So I don't have a history of childhood filled with play and taking chances. You know, the stakes were very high all the time. My responsibilities were big, and I needed to be always a good student, but absolutely run a household and make decisions and take care of my siblings and extend the family. So I think that I learned early on with my grandmother and my parents and people in my community, quite frankly. You know, I grew up within a three block radius. I was surrounded by extended family and chosen family, and people looked out for each other. People were activated to be part of a collective. So that's always stayed with me, and my parents have always instilled the sense of be truly who you are at your core, with conviction around your values and you never have like, no matter what your degrees are or what job you have, you are never better than someone who's driving you or cleaning your house. You know a custodian in your school building, they really have that sense of, like, work ethic and pride, and so I've kind of walked in the world that way, and I feel that at times that has been very hard, but certainly where I preferred to be, so that there's a consistent Shirley, and in whatever space you see me in, I think it's hard to negotiate that even an older person in the world, especially if you are in environments that were not historically created for you.

Analiza: Shirley, it's so powerful to hear how your parents modeled this belief that you could rise to the occasion, and you did with all of your responsibilities, and stayed true to yourself and had a community that supported you. And with this last point you made you rose to such senior roles, and currently at a very senior role, and I imagine that the community is very different. And I'm curious, can you talk about career moments when you have been surely true Shirley, but then also was able to and also able to advance. I mean, were there ever, Were there ever tension where you career defining moment? Yeah, tell me about that.

Shirley: Sure. I mean, that's, you know, that has been a negotiation at different moments in my life. I think one of the things to emphasize here is what my parents believed and what my community believed in terms of my abilities, and let's say superpowers, right? Is exactly what I've taken into my work, and I knew it as a posse scholar when I first went to college through an amazing program that I got to support and grow and lead, which was an extraordinary gift most people who choose to look at the world through a deficit based lens, would have seen my community as low income, me as an at risk inner city kid, simply as a brown girl with parents who did not have a college education. My father has a fourth grade education, and my mother was fortunate enough to finish high school in her home country of Dominican Republic. People who chose to look at my community as or my abilities, or the schools that I went to as problems that need to be fixed don't allow young people to be seen in all of their greatness and in all of their abilities. And so the organization that I lead now College Track, when I was executive vice chancellor at Rutgers University Newark, when I served as a VP and Dean of the College at Middlebury, you know, when I was a president of Ithaca College, like in all of my journey, I have chosen to completely unapologetically look at young people from an asset based framework, and understanding that when you shine a bright light on people's abilities, they rise to the occasion. And do they? They do great things, you know? And. And I, like our College Track scholars, I grew up in a community of people who were invested in me, people who are smart and capable, people who cared about human rights, people who instill values in me and believed in my ability to be an intellectual, a curious person, a caring person. And so because of that, it's been so important to see the world that way. You know, when I went to Vanderbilt and I was a posse scholar, you know, I wasn't this inner city kid with all these problems that could barely make it there, you know, that's not how I saw myself. And so that's super powerful. And so if you choose to be in the world that way and see young people that way, and see your teams that way, and see the potential leadership in people that way, the world is so much bigger and brighter than the way that we normally see it. And so I guess my point in that all is, is that I have definitely had moments where people expect me to be in a particular box where I'm a surprise to them. They didn't expect me to be the one walking in the room with the big title right, or bear witness to a conversation in a boardroom, or decide to really lift my voice up around a strategic issue, or bring certain people along that wouldn't have normally been in that room. And so you kind of have to make choices when you decide to be consistently you. There is the reality of what you put on yourself, which can be complicated and hard, and then also what people put on you, what people decide you are and are not. And I've just intentionally tried in my life, in a diplomatic and an open and authentic way to show up as myself and negotiate my identity. And yeah, you know, I've been in some really interesting places, and places that I have loved and grown abundantly in and have loved me back. And I've also been in spaces where I've been misunderstood or people expected one particular thing, and they actually got something else. And at this point in my life, are you very comfortable with knowing what that means? I wasn't always comfortable with it. I didn't always understand what was happening. And that's just part of growth as a leader and as a person, you know, one of the things that in predominantly white environments, people have asked me sometimes, like, what's it like? And people from all backgrounds, you know, what's it like? And what I really say to folks is, you know, it's really important that all students, that all people, see different versions of leadership, all students and so the spaces that I've occupied where they've been very diverse in all kinds of ways, or perhaps less diverse in particular ways, I feel like not only my presence, but my ability to show up as a leader who is a learning leader and a capable leader provides a model for a variety of people, not just the group that I'm in or what people expect of me.

Analiza: So many powerful stories and wisdom here, I'm going to try to bring it to a practical way for me, for maybe others, to take on this great modeling Shirley, so first is our own narrative to ourselves that we can define ourselves as smart and responsible, and all possibilities open intellectual, all of these pieces of our identity we can define for ourselves, and hopefully we can bring in some of the powerful narratives we've heard from our family so our own self narrative. The second is this idea of being in spaces where we are now negotiating with people who might not expect us in our fullness, and maybe debunk their view of what a for new for me, a low income Filipina girl is capable of that there is a negotiation and a choice point here that I can still show up and be witness and share my voice opinion on topics or whatever it is. But there's a choice here to still show up in our fullness in those spaces. And the third is that there's so much power in being a model for others, including young people, about what's possible, that our typical. A white male is not the be all, end all leader, that there are so many different versions that they themselves can aspire to be. So I love this so much Shirley, because it allows us to expand that when we don't check our identity at the door, we can fully show up, not just for ourselves, but our community and young people. So thank you. Thank you, Shirley, for those really great lessons. I want to go to this point. You had mentioned earlier about rock bottom moments, because it is hard. I imagine with such a career like yours that there's challenges, and I'm curious, were there any moments when you even related to identity or anything else with leadership, where you made a mistake or you learned a hard way that helped shape who you are today.

Shirley: Yeah, yeah. And one thing that I want to add to what you said earlier about being true to ourselves and other people. You know, representation matters, and other people benefit from it. What I really want to underscore there that's really important is any environment that allows all people, not just women of color, to come into the space and fully be who they are, as multifaceted people and communicating across lines of difference, it adds so much texture to not only the profile of a leader, but the richness of the outcome of the problem that we're trying to solve. Right as Scott Page talks about and writes about in the difference, you know, or the the late great Lani Guinier, law scholar who really wanted to define meritocracy, really redefine meritocracy through a much more inclusive lens in in the academia, like the proof is in the pudding, that when We all show up as who we are fully. We benefit greatly from that, and I should underscore too, you know, as you mentioned, white males, I mean some of my greatest mentors in places, people who invested in me, who allowed me to completely grow and go way beyond my job description. Where men were white, men were women, women of color. Were people, generationally in a different place than I was, who really invested in me and just kept reinforcing you can be you in this environment, and, and, and here's how you negotiate the rules of engagement. You know, just like first gens, when they're going to a campus for the first time, and they're making that campus so much better, they have these superpowers that a lot of other students don't have, that we sometimes feel are deficits, but they actually aren't. They're multitaskers, they're multilingual, they're problem solvers. They're super mature. They're adaptive under pressure. Those are amazing things. And so I think when we release ourselves from this idea that I somehow am so different, I'm the only one, and I can't add value, or I have to decode all these things that I need to say, Boy, does that? That's a very like mentally draining, spiritually draining, thing to go through. And it's real. A lot of women of color go through that experience, and especially if they're not in environments where they feel like they can blossom and do that. So I think, you know, I've had failures, I've had growth moments, I don't think that I could be the leader I am today if I actually did not have to give myself permission to be vulnerable to my own mistakes. Say out loud what I'm learning, and I do try to model that at this point in my life and career. I think one of the things that I have learned as a leader is I am often, you know, very direct. I'm from New York. What you see is what you get. And I love problem solving and thinking out loud with community stakeholders. I want stakeholders in a community to feel like they are absolutely part of the work, and so sometimes, as a leader in my wish to be very open and say what I'm thinking and learning, because I have occupied positions of power, what I have said has sometimes ran away ahead of me, someone will take it and then run with it and turn it into something else. And I want permission to talk about an idea as it's evolving and as I'm learning, and sometimes especially in this day and age when we kind of think about how complicated communications and social media are. And that people can run with a quote or run with an idea and turn the story, there have absolutely been, I've been in moments where I feel like that has been deeply misunderstood and and in some cases, taken advantage of, if I wish to be open and real, you know, something will go and catch on a life of its own. And I think that leaders need to have space to be full humans and to talk openly, and sometimes that also means being imperfect, having a very full life and being vulnerable. And, you know, women bring that to the space of leadership, I think, quite a bit, but it's not always rewarded. And we really want, I want, a place where students can look at a leader and see the evolution and the learning and the leader. I mean, that's what we're asking students to do all the time, right? Fail forward, try new things, ask the big questions. And I don't think that we give that kind of grace to leaders, especially when they don't fit the mold that we think they should, or they're very early on in their journey, and they have so much to learn, so much to learn. So that's what I would share with you.

Analiza: It's an important point that leaders are human too, and to have space to speak and be sometimes like purple and the next day want blue. It's okay. Then we don't have to run completely with one idea. So I love that, because we're all we're practicing grace for ourselves, with each other, with leaders, modeling for students, allowing our young people to grow evolutionary themselves. Shirley, did you want to be CEO, President, Chancellor? I mean, did you aspire to these positions, having people who you said graciously allowed you to grow, gave you space? Where did that come from?

Shirley: Oh, that's such a great question. Students ask me that all the time when they say, were you planning on being a college president? No, I've always been really curious. I knew at a young age that I wanted to work with young people. I was always a bit of an old soul, and the way that I was raised also, you know, I grew up fast. I grew up fast, and so I always felt like an elder to my peers, which was always interesting. You know, I went to college on a Greyhound bus from the New York City port authority with four other students in the first ever inaugural cohort of posse scholars and our five mothers on a 26 hour bus ride down to Nashville, Tennessee. When I got on that bus, I thought I'm going to be a high school teacher or a youth social worker. I knew that I wanted to work with young people, and I cared deeply about the systems that I was swimming in as a young person, and I knew I wanted to be a public servant of some kind, and probably in the youth development space. I would have never told you that I would become a college administrator, or that I was going to get a PhD in clinical psych, or that somehow I was going to navigate the systems that I've been able to lead in the last 25 years. That was not part of the plan. What I say to mentees, and especially women that I get to work with, who are younger than me and early in their careers. I actually was just with a Vanderbilt student who's in her senior year on Zoom yesterday, giving career advice on one of the you know, she was eager to meet me as a member of the first posse, and we were talking. And, you know, I just completed 10 years on the Vanderbilt board. I've when you follow your passion and work, things just happen. So I was not following this kind of linear path of becoming this higher ed leader. What I was following was the work, the work of really supporting young people. And when I focused on that, you know, it was a leap of faith to go and run and grow the Posse Foundation. That wasn't in my plans. I got a special call when the founder of posse decided, you know, I should put my name in the hat to be the first national position as we scaled the organization up. And that was a labor of love, that was a spiritual calling. I did not know that it was going to be one of the most brilliant career moves that I've ever made. I learned how to raise money. I learned strategic planning. I learned how to work across K 12 and higher ed. I helped build the first endowment I learned about board governance on a 501, c3 that was just learning to replicate itself. Right? Right? I mean, it was just a phenomenal journey. And then I decided I wanted to do that work on a campus, inside a campus, and I had the wonderful gift of serving as a major leader at Middlebury College and rule over mine, of all places, right? I didn't know that my life would take me there, and I work for I've worked for some outstanding leaders, and so no, this was not the plan. I just like when I was a kid, I ended up doing work that I was deeply passionate about. I was given a lot of room to design things and create things and build things, and continue to do things that will be way outside my job description and work in community with people. And I've never felt like I'm in a place. I've always wanted to connect it to national work. So for every position that I've sat in, I've wanted to do cross sector collaborations, and so it was not part of the plan. And what I love about the journey that I've been on is it has not been linear. I have learned things every step of the way, and I refuse to sit in kind of a neatly tied created box of, okay, you have to do this, then you have to do this, then you have to do this. And I think students are inspired by that, because they think, Oh, this wasn't your plan. And then you did this. And then people said you couldn't do that, but you did it anyway. And so it's so much about finding the place at the moment, mentors and leaders that will always be by your side, and even when you're a grown up CEO like me, you need mentors, and you need people who have your back and give you good advice. You need truth tellers. You need people that you're going to call when you're thinking about something, and you need a space to do that safely and thoughtfully, to serve the people in the institution that you get up for every day. So it's a wonderful gift to get up every day and feel like I had this inside me as a kid. I wanted to have an impact, but not for Shirley's sake. It's not. It's never about me. It's about the work, and the work is urgent right now, urgent, and I'm going to do everything that I can. You know, while I'm on this earth.

Analiza: Shirley, you mentioned spiritual calling. And if you wouldn't mind sharing more about that?

Shirley: Yeah, I think there are things that people do that might make sense in the box of their resume or their credentials, and then there are things that you really feel moved and called to do. And I've had several of those moments in my life, you know, I do believe in the ancestors. I do believe in a higher power. I grew up with that being very an integrated part of my life, a deep part of my life. You know, my maternal grandmother, Elisa Rodriguez, who had a huge impact on me as a woman, huge impact. I feel her spirit all the time, and it's been there every time I've made a major decision. And so there are things that have just shown up. You know, Middlebury was a labor of love. It was a dream to serve Middlebury College. I could have never planned that after posse. You know, that dream came to me, and it was the most atypical place you would ever imagine Shirley Collado at. And it actually was my place, and for that moment in history, it was one of the most formative and beautiful times in my life and career. And I couldn't have ever planned that that was not like a career track thing. It was like meeting the moment, meeting the leader, meeting the place, and then yes, there was something else happening in the world, in the universe, that was saying, this is exactly where Shirley needs to be. And I'm very fortunate that I feel that that has happened throughout my career. So when I call, when I feel called to serve, it doesn't always fit in a nicely, tight, tidy box. You know, the timing is always terrible, and it's always great. You know, I'm a big fan of recruit people when they're not looking for jobs, find people when they are really happy and in their zone, and they continue to do great things in community with people. And so I've had so many of those moments, you know, when Nancy canter called me to serve as her right hand person at Rutgers University Newark I went from a private liberal arts college to a regional public school the same thing when the President, Presidency of Ithaca came up. And, you know, now I get to lead this extraordinary organization across K 12 higher ed and career across the country. So yes, I'm not quiet about that. I feel that the spiritual realm is very present in my life, and I've been taken very good care of and I've also had very hard moments that I never imagined getting through, but I believe I did them with grace and dignity and integrity, and I never did any of that alone. All of the things that I've been able to accomplish as a leader in person have been absolutely with the fierce talent and power and love of people who've been in the work with me in every role that I've served, and also the ancestors of my grandmother and God looking out for me. I'm not shy about that. I know it's a combination of what's here on this earth and something much bigger than us.

Analiza: Beautiful. Shirley with that, are you ready for lightning round questions?

Shirley: Sure, sure.

Analiza: Okay. First question, chocolate or vanilla?

Shirley: Vanilla.

Analiza: Cooking or takeout?

Shirley: Cooking alongside the love of my life and with some good jazz music, and I wish I had more time for it.

Analiza: Would you rather climb a mountain or jump from a plane?

Shirley: Climb a mountain. I love, love, love the mountains.

Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Shirley: No.

Analiza: How would you rate your karaoke skills on a skill of 1 to 10, 10 being Mariah Carey?

Shirley: Oh, 10 is Mariah Carey. Well, fun fact about me, I did theater, musical theater, and acting in middle school all the way through college, and some fun stuff after college. I'm no Mariah Carey, but I love to sing and dance and do fun things on stage with an ensemble. So I don't know. I would say karaoke may be like a five, if you're really putting Mariah Carey out of 10, I'd be like a 5.

Analiza: What's the recent book you read?

Shirley: Oh my goodness, there are so many wonderful books. You know, I'm a little biased. My husband, Jordan, is a poet and teaches creative writing and film, and I love everything he's written, but one of my most recent is one of his recents. When I woke I cried to dream again.

Analiza: What's your favorite way to practice self care?

Shirley: Long trail hikes and walks with my two adorable dogs, Frida and Melba, being out in nature. And the gift of the Bay Area is that I get culture and urban and nature all at once. But yeah, I would say a nice, quiet morning on the trail. And when I lived in Vermont, I would say that, you know, there's nothing like a fresh snowfall and putting on snowshoes and walking and hearing the snow on the earth beneath you. You know, when everything's really quiet and still.

Analiza: What's a good professional development you've done?

Shirley: Hmm, I'm going to give a shout out to my wonderful sister and mentor, Dr. Mildred Garcia, who's now the Chancellor of the California State University system. She was the president of the American Association of State Colleges and Universities. Has a wonderful leadership development opportunity, primarily for young leaders of color, and it's called MLI, and that was really transformative for me. I was at Middlebury at a private college, and I went on this development experience with mostly people at Publix and bigger schools. And I learned from some incredible presidents like Jolene Kester and Millie Garcia and Freeman Hrabowski. And I had a great cohort that to this day, we still lean on each other and help each other out.

Analiza: What advice would you give your younger self?

Shirley: Oh, I would look at Shirley deep in the eyes and say, do not take life so seriously. I'm an intense person. I had an intense childhood. Everything was serious for a very long time, and now I think of my grown up version, I take life very seriously. I think there are a lot of urgent things we need to be up for, but I don't take myself so seriously anymore. And I wish she could have played more and failed more and just given herself a little more grace. I wish I could have told her that.

Analiza: And then where can we find you? LinkedIn.

Shirley: Yes, you can find me on LinkedIn. I am not tweeting, I am not on Facebook. I no longer have an Instagram account. You know, there's only so much that I can do, but you can find me on LinkedIn, and you can certainly visit the College Track website@collegetrack.org.

Analiza: And last question, do you have a final ask recommendation or any parting thoughts to share?

Shirley: Oh, well, these have been such great questions. Analiza, you know, I would just go back to the mentor thing and the box thing that I said earlier, for any women, any leaders, really listening in, really, really think carefully about who are your circle of mentors, and who do you call on to get great input and support, especially if you don't feel like you have it in close proximity to you in your current role or job. And I lived in places where my mentors weren't physically there, you know, they weren't like right there in my vicinity, yet we could talk on the phone. And this is before all of this technology that we have with us today. Like, really carve out time to have a circle of people who you know are your truth tellers are always going to look out for you and who are very different from each other. So you have a really nice full balance view. And at the end of the day, the ultimate question is in your heart and in your spirit, you're the one that needs to find the answer, right? So that's really important. And then the box thing is really about. There are people who will tell you the boxes that you can occupy and where you can't grow out from. And I would just say, resist that. You know, the future of the Academy of higher ed of work is going to call on all of us to use many skills and reimagine our talents and reimagine how we deliver them and what we do. And that requires a certain level of nimbleness and openness. It is not a linear path. And I think most things that are interesting and also a little scary don't actually come in this perfect form of the career track and plan that we imagined. So, you know, stay on the ride. Don't be afraid to learn and be vulnerable. Leaders constantly evolve, and they never do great work alone.

Analiza: Dr Shirley Collado, so grateful for your stories, your advice. I wish I had listened to you when I was younger. I'm grateful I have you today to listen to. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Shirley: Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here with all of you.

Analiza: Thank you so much for carving out time to hear today's podcast, three things before you go. First, if you found it helpful, please leave a five star review. Second, you can get a free chapter of my book, The Myths of Success: A Woman of Color’s Guide to Leadership at analizawolf.com/freechapter. And lastly, if you're interested in executive coaching, please reach out to me at analiza@analizawolf.com. Thank you so very much.