Analiza: Hi, I'm Analiza Quiroz Wolf, proud Asian American, mama of two kiddos. I went from being a burned out mama to being a Boss Mama, being a boss at work home and playing. I'm on a mission to help more women be Boss Mamas. If you want to thrive at work without sacrificing family or self care, you are in the right place. For detailed show notes, go to analizawolf.com/podcast and be sure to subscribe because I send out the best secrets I learned from my guests to my email subscribers. Now let's get into today's show.

We all know that quote, “It takes a village.” But how strong is your village? And how often do you ask for help? Today we're talking with Lindsay Kruse, a Leadership and Strategy Consultant. Lindsay shares how starting from childhood, she was a mom to everyone, taking care of friends, her schoolmates, and her community. After getting her BS from Cornell and her MBA from Columbia University, Lindsay’s willingness to take care of everyone led her to getting more responsibilities and leadership roles in consulting and then later in education. Lindsay shares the breakdown moment as a new mom when she decides to stop doing everything herself and start building her village and asking for help. In Boss Mamas, we talk about the strategy of Calling Your Community. We know that we aren’t alone and can ask for help not only from close friends and family but from people we don’t know well. Lindsay is a great example of this. She’ll share the specific strategies she took to go from rarely asking for help to asking for help as a go-to strategy.

I’m excited for you to meet this Boss Mama!

I actually want to kick off our conversation with your dog you showed me behind you, you have such a cute little canine but he's got a cone around his head. What is going on with your dog?

Lindsay: He is our pandemic puppy. So we got him April 4 2020. Right as things were shutting down, they literally handed him to us through a car window. And he's been lovely. And then about a month ago, our dog sitter had him in. I guess he fell or jumped out of the window and got dragged for a while. So he spent four days in the hospital. And then we have been sort of triaging and nursing him back to health for the last month. I've been telling people it's like having a newborn without any parental leave.

Analiza: So cute and super sad. I'm glad that he has you as mommy taking care of him with your big job, Lindsay, you got your job, you have your two beautiful kids and all the things going on in life. How are you finding time without the family leave to take care of him?

Lindsay: I would say the biggest thing we did was ask for help, which is not always in my nature. But I'm getting more and more better at it. He had bandages on every leg stitches on three parts of his body, just all painkillers every couple of hours. It was sort of a breaking point that we realized we needed help. We've got a daughter who goes to school an hour away that needs to be driven. Our son goes to elementary school. We had to figure it out. We sent out an email to friends and neighbors in town and just said, I'm not usually good at asking for help, but we need it. And here's all the things in the short term we could use to help with and here are all the things in the long term that are making us realize we need systems for now that everything's coming back in the pandemic. And of all the bad things with the accident, I think the amazing thing has been just our faith restored in humanity. We've had neighbors that we know but aren't super close. I literally had him at my neighbor's today so that he had somebody home with him. And we've got someone taking and picking up our son from school and literally taking pictures of him at the Halloween parade because we need to be home with the dog and just had a whole village and community helping us.

Analiza: That's beautiful. I have to say that as a woman as a mom, asking for help is hard. There's so much pressure I think put on us that I think also comes from ourselves that we've got to do all the things so I'm excited to talk to you Lindsay like we're handling it. Yes, you handle it. If you're a good mom, you're a good leader, you're handling it. I want to go back to this because I've seen her transformed. This was not the way in which you and I have been friends forever, that I first met you. But I actually want to crank it all the way back to when you were a kid. And tell me back in the day when you're doing all the things, handling it, where do you think this came from?

Lindsay: Growing up, we had a ton of love, we were really, really cared for. And we just had a lot of change, and sometimes instability. So we moved about every four or five years, first to a different country, then to different states. And then we had periods of real income insecurity, where my parents were out of a job. And I remember when we were in North Carolina, in the middle of summer, we didn't have money to fix the air conditioning. I remember having a friend spend the night and her parents having to come pick her up because it was too hot for her to stay over. And then my father, also when I was in third grade was diagnosed with cancer. And so they were also navigating that treatment, a lot of job changes. I think two things came out of that I had a very early age, I'm the youngest of to just sort of develop this mentality of like, you guys get a lot going, like I'll just take care of myself, I won't add to the stress, you guys go worry about your thing. And I'll just try and be easy. And I think in watching my parents navigate everything that they did, I think I also just learned like, you handle it, we have a saying in our family, my maiden name is Hamilton and it's called the Hamilton pity party. And my parents used to say, like, you get a day you get a day to feel sorry for yourself and to cry. And then the next day, you put your big girl pants on and you deal with it. And that was really sort of what they did throughout their whole life, no matter what happened, it was sort of like, you can have your sort of booze, and then it was like, Okay, it's the problem still there. So you just got to handle it. So I think that that was sort of in a very early age, just sort of the way I was built.

Analiza: I'm imagining you at this young age, there was so much going on from your dad from all this moving from not having enough money. And now you're feeling this responsibility that you should handle it. How did this mentality then drive on? Because you went on to these great schools and had this successful career? But how do you think it infiltrated the way in which you made decisions?

Lindsay: I think in two ways, I think a very clear way is what I was like, that will never happen to me. And so it was do whatever you need to do to get a good job. So that meant sort of head down and head down and just do the work and get into a good school. It was all the external markers, right? It was sort of like all this instability, being able to see these external markers of like, okay, I'm doing okay. Okay, I got into a college. Okay, got a good job. And so it was sort of all this external recognition to know if I was quote, okay. So I think that a huge part of it was just like, that's why I went into management consulting, I want a good stable job that I can make good money in. That's interesting. And my husband and I always joke because in college, he wrote a humor column, and he DJ’d for a radio station, just did all these things that make him like a super interesting human. And I worked part time. And then I did like professional associations. I was in the like, public relations, Student Society of America in college, like when I look back at that now, like, Oh, my God, why did anybody hang out with me, that's, I think it was internally motivated, like, I will just go to a good school, I will get a good job, I will take care of myself. And then I think it was also valued in my family. My dad arranged job shadowing, it was like, all I think, with the best of intentions, but really about like getting a good job.

Analiza: It's so interesting that you mentioned two things. One is that there's so much external validation, that we're doing the right thing, making the right decisions, and that we don't source that from within. And then the second piece is how much we lose ourselves, like what actually makes us happy that starts early. And so it's not that surprising. Now, when we talk to other women leaders, what makes you happy. So let's fast forward. I know that you made a big decision to switch from consulting, business school consulting, and then you moved into education, which is where you and I met. And about that time, then you had a kid. So now when I see you, Lindsey Kruse, she does all of the things the Project Management helps mother us, take care of us because you're not only taking care of yourself and your family, but you're taking care of all these other leaders. And how did you navigate being pregnant that whole motherhood?

Lindsay: I was the first person to get pregnant at the organization? So I left business school and started in education. And about a year and got pregnant with my daughter, Maggie. And we literally didn't have a maternity policy. My boss at the time was like, we should write one of those, like, what do you think it should be? There was sort of this pressure of like, don't put that aside what we get. In some ways, it's great. But I remember specifically being at one of our schools, and having a teacher pull me aside who I sort of knew but didn't know well, and pulled me aside and she said, you know, we're all watching you. Right? And I was like, I wasn't aware of that. What are you watching me for? She was like to see what happens after you had like to see if you came back. I just thought, like, Oh, God, like that is a lot. I'm just trying to figure out what is happening to my body right now.

Analiza: I remember Lindsay Kruse, when you were the head of our leadership development cohort, you would write these thoughtful cards to us. I mean, it wasn't like good luck with the school year Analiza. It was a page long of details about me and what made me special and my childhood and stories you remembered about me? I mean, I kept those cards. Lindsay, they were so thoughtful. And I thought to myself, Oh, my gosh, she's writing these letters to everybody. How she is doing that is so over the top amazing. And then on top of that, I also remember when you had Maggie, it was like, nothing had changed. You were still doing all the night events that we did the weekend events, and all these really special things. I remember you told me a story. He said, Yeah, things are fine at home. And I said, What do you mean by that? And you said, Well, I haven't been home for a while. And my husband told me that when I wasn't home, Maggie had a sock of mine. And she was cradling it. And you were laughing? And I said why are you laughing? And you said, well, because I think it was a dirty sock. Very likely, very likely. It was sweet. But also scary. Because I was also watching you. I didn't have kids yet. And I was wondering what life would be like for me. So we were there together for a number of years. And you eventually decided to leave. So what happened?

Lindsay: That story of both makes me laugh and makes me incredibly sad. For that moment, I would say. So at the time I decided to leave, I had progressed into being sort of the senior leader of human capital. And so I think two things happen. I was pregnant now with my son, my second, we were living in Princeton, I was commuting an hour into the city to do the job. And for better, for worse, I think I would do it differently now. But in my head, human capital meant two things. And then I shouldn't just be in our home office, I also need to be in our school. So I was not just commuting from Princeton into New York, but then trying to go to Newark, and out to Brooklyn and out to sort of all of these places to understand sort of what our team needed and to be present. I also took too much on myself thinking if anybody is unhappy in this organization, it is somehow my job to address it, because I am in charge of human capital. And then I think we were just getting big. And to be honest, I had 13 bosses. It was bad to have two kids at home, I had a commute, I was doing a lot of influencing and persuading. And it just felt like the moment to say, Enough. And I had built it to a point that someone could carry it forward. And it just felt like the time to think differently about my work. I think having Sam forced the issue, but I think it was really prime time.

Analiza: It's interesting. The second kid, I feel like a lot happens in terms of the second.

Lindsay: It's like the one that breaks you, I think you can do it.

Analiza: I have to say the second one does break you, it broke me. It broke me. Alright, so fast forward, you become a consultant, you then take a job and I get an email and I'm surprised and you and I chat about it. And you say you know it's a pretty great role. The next thing I know, I think you were there for two years, is that right? And then you decide to leave. So I want to actually get to those points because I feel like these transitions are the second child. What made you decide to go because I remember you told me how pretty great it was?

Lindsay: I think the way that I have evolved from all of those sort of originally external markers of recognition is really getting a little bit more quiet and listening to myself and being okay, that's sort of my career sort of a wave of like leaning and leaning back and sort of doing these moments or just even not necessarily leaning back but rethinking and restructuring the way that I work. I have a really great Coach, I still have the poster note on my desk that says lean into your truth, not your capacity, which is really just about like, what do you need and want just because you can do it doesn't mean you should. So that role that I took sort of along the way, in my parenthood journey, both of my kids were diagnosed with learning disabilities, which was just sort of like an eye opening experience in my entire life, I worked to create equity and address inequity in schools. And even though I thought I was doing all of this good, I still realize there's this whole group of kids that are not being served. It sort of reframed my thinking of what I need to do and be as a parent, right? The job that I took was related to that work, it was working in organizations and with educators around students with learning disabilities. So in terms of a career opportunity, it was an executive level role, I would get to build and lead my own team, it was being surrounded by experts in the very work that I both cared about professionally. And that would inform my support of my own kids, as a parent, I would say at great personal sacrifice, so was just sort of a different kind of leadership team, where seat teams, you know, seat time was valued being in the office being present, there was a lot of sort of politics and dynamics. And so I would just carry a lot of that I was commuting into the city, which I swore I'd never do again. But I was like, this is the opportunity. And when I decided to take that opportunity, it was also when I thought we sort of had my daughter's program on autopilot. It's like I get two years. So middle school, I know the team at the school, like we got this, this is my moment to like take this opportunity. And literally a month into that job, we got her a bit evaluated every three years to sort of assess. And we got her evaluation back a month into the job. And basically her outcomes were going like this further and further away from her peers rather than closer and closer. And we had to make dramatic changes. So we had to pull her from the school. We had to send her to a different school from all the things that I thought would be smooth sailing. We're not transitioning to like, oh, this child is going to need something different. That sort of breaking point of sort of why I decided to change was I felt deeply committed to my image, the story that you tell resonates, I'm like, I felt committed to my team. I had brought them there, I had built this team, we were driving this work, we have really important work to do. And anytime I build something, I don't leave, because it's hard. And so I was grappling with a lot of those emotions, but also realizing that the school we had put my daughter in was not doing so we had already pulled her from the local school, we put her into a private school focused on kids with learning disabilities. And then the more and more I was learning through my job, the more and more I realized this school is not doing what it needs to do for her, I had a moment where I felt like I'm going in every day and working these hours and sort of carrying this weight for other people's kids. And I'm missing my own. I miss what's happening with her right now. So I was doing a lot of soul searching, my husband and I were on a trip up in Maine and we had this three hour stretch to talk about it. He's like, look, I will support you, whatever you decide to do. But he also said in our 40s, we worked our butts off to get where we are. And we deserve to enjoy our life. And I just had a moment I was like, but I can't leave because I brought this like I was going through the list of all the like grown up humans that I couldn't disappoint. And then I turned and looked in the backseat and was like, like ding ding ding, ding ding, like, they just can't speak for themselves at this moment. Because they don't know what to say. And so I'm worried about all of the grown adults, and not thinking about the two people in my life that I actually really do have to take care of. And after that moment, I was like, okay, that's what I need to do. And then made a plan to transition and it was hard. And I felt really bad. And I don't regret it for a second. It was absolutely the right thing to do. We got my daughter into a different school for the first time. Honestly, in seven years, I do not carry any of the weight of advocating for her which is for any parents who have kids that they've had that part. I think you know that just like the change that comes from not having to do that to sort of beg folks to see your child is fully capable and human. So yeah, that is the story. I can tell you a little bit about the tattoo that I got.

Analiza: Yes, I would love to for people who cannot see it. Can you describe what's on your wrists?

Lindsay: It looks sort of like teardrops in a line and then ripples on the side. That's it. And it basically stands for presence. So anyone who knows me I'm not really sure it wasn't a thing I was dying to get. I think I said that to someone they're like, Yeah, I know you're not a tattoo person. But that experience was so important to me because I felt like I lost myself in that process. I wanted something to sort of remind and recenter myself, so I found this, it stands for presence. And for me, it really means a couple things, which is one to remember who to be present for. And then to that I can be present in hard things and still take good things from them. It's like it's okay to go through bad things. I think I've spent a lot of my life trying to prevent going through bad things. This was just a challenge. And I took a ton away from it and sort of personally developed a ton. And so it was worth it. And then the straight line for me is just a reminder to trust myself. And when your guts say, Well, I think I'm right about that it was sort of just a reminder to me of the backbone. And then the ripples kind of brings it full circle to our conversation, the beginning of asking for help, which is like it is a reminder to me to also ask for help the sort of like people always ask you, it's like ripples of impact. But for me, it's about like, you also don't have to do this alone. And what I'll often do is be like, I'm okay, I'm okay. Until then I'm like, I'm not okay. I sort of go from what? And so it's the reminder to me to not wait till that moment where you're like, Oh, God, I'm not okay, is to just sort of ask for help. From the beginning. It's not a sign of weakness. And if anything, I think it really brings people together. So that's the tattoo.

Analiza: The tattoo is awesome, because it ties in your childhood, of wanting external validation that you're okay. To actually realize that it comes from within, that you can trust yourself and trust your wants, lean into what you want, like your coach said, and enjoy yourself. Yeah. And that in this process, we can't stop hard things, the hard things will come no matter what. But can we ride the wave and believe that we will survive. So it's lovely. The last part you mentioned of that tattoo, that meaning of we're not meant to do it alone, to ask for help? Talk to me about that, because that's a very different Lindsay Kruse philosophy from back in the day.

Lindsay: I have this lovely, lovely group of women in my life. And it started when we were at our job together, it was all a group of a few women all sort of senior level positions who were sort of new into motherhood. And we were sort of struggling to find our model, like having to sort of fully stay at home to fully staffed at home. So you can be at work all the time. And we were sort of saying like, where's the middle road where the people who want to do really meaningful, impactful work, but also want time to be present? We started this group and we did everything from surveys to the expanded group that this went out to but like everything to what supplies do you have to what do you outsource at home to like, what's your morning routine look like? How do you navigate these conversations are very, like, practical tactical, like how the hell do you navigate this whole thing? These women are probably my dearest friends. My husband called the bat phone this week. When someone needs something, we jump. And so we've talked to each other through everything from all those transitions in my life, they were a part of me, we did consultations, we talked to each other through those. So we've gone through those we've done two deaths in our families, we've gone through divorces, we've gone through sort of every sort of life moment as both moms and professionals and just quite frankly, humans. So I would say that was sort of my first time letting your guard down professionally and just creating these friends that you can be like. I don't know what the hell I'm doing, like, what do you guys do? And to just sort of have a place to vent and process that I think that was a big part. I think as I have grown and sort of realized, like, it's not fun to get to the meltdown. Stage, I've done a lot of the internal work on that. I'm like, I think we used to glorify stress, there was a certain martyrdom in busy and there was martyrdom and being like, I've done all of these things. And I think as I've gotten older and fatter, it's like the Mary Oliver, what are you going to do with this one precious life, it's like, just don't want that. I don't think it's necessary to both feel successful and have impact and to be able to have the life that you want. And I would say the other thing, what was my most recent inspiration with the dog was I have a very dear friend from this work whose husband was dealing with cancer during the pandemic. And she and I are very sort of cut from the same cloth and she created a text chain of seven women and was just like, I'm so bad at asking for help, but people tell me I should and that became the light. She would use that text to vent if it was just like, oh like, or to celebrate great news about her husband's journey or to like, does anybody have a solution for x, or we're home with chemo treatments. And I was so in honor of her for watching how she navigated this pandemic, and then something so sort of critical in her family that when everything happened with the dog, I just thought, like, I don't even know how we're going to do this. I immediately thought of her and was like, right, who are my people? Who do I need to email and just say, like, we need ideas, and we need hands, and we need help. And people are just happy, like, I think we don't put enough effort, we think it's like a sign of weakness, or we just think like, we don't want to bother them. And I think that we could certainly overstep it, but I just think people have actually been really excited to help, which has been sort of an amazing learning for me.

Analiza: Those examples are really helpful, because it highlights one the power of developing community, and friendships, your uomo and we'll link that Atlantic Monthly article about your group. So include that there. The second is the definition that's used of being busy and martyrdom, that we don't actually have to take that definition. We're so used to saying, Hey, how are you busy? What about you being busy, and we all go around saying how busy we are? It's like a resume. I know, I'm not busy with you because I am busier. So actually saying that's actually no, I don't want to be that I want to be something else. Which is to have more joy, a little more balance in this wave like life we have. And the third thing is that even without your closest friends, you can actually ask people you don't know. It's surprising to see how many people want to help. In fact, I find it so honorable when people ask me for help, like, oh, my gosh, they thought of me as someone that they could ask for something. And I think it was Ben Franklin, who said that a way in which to build relationships, it's actually by asking for help. And when the person reciprocates, there's a tide connection that builds community. So actually, you're onto something that not only is a sign of weakness, but it's a way to ask to build relationships. So yeah, lovely. All right with that, any other advice for other Boss Mama's out there trying to ask for help and get started on this journey?

Lindsay: Building that village, like for me, the walls were the lifeline, sort of all things work in life. And I found that in every place that I've gone, I found sort of a group of women. And I guess the other thing I would just say, is, like, at the risk of sounding cheesy, just like allow yourself to be human. I think the thing that I evolved to as a leader, feeling like everybody's watching you, even in that moment, what I felt like I needed to do was to model the humanity of that and just keep it real. I think the pandemic has forced us to be real in a way in which we haven't, I mean, you have like, dog showing up on your zoom and you just like, there's no way to hide this happening in our lives. And so I think I would just say, like, model that for other women and create space for other women to be human to lean into your truth. And not your capacity is just like, we have to stop trying to prove things to other people.

Analiza: That's great. So with that, let's do lightning round questions.

Lindsay: Perfect.

Analiza: Chocolate or vanilla?

Lindsay: Clearly chocolate.

Analiza: Cooking our takeout?

Lindsay: I love to cook, but I'll always say take out it's easier.

Analiza: Climb a mountain or jump from a plane?

Lindsay: This is such a huge question. I like to think I would jump from a plane but I would probably be more likely to climb a mountain.

Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Lindsay: Not until I had a dog and I had to take him out at weird times of night. So not in public. We'll say that.

Analiza: How would you rate your karaoke skills on a scale of one to 10/10 being Mariah Carey?

Lindsay: If it's 90s Hip Hop, then like 9 that is my jam everything out. That is what I did for my 40th birthday party and it's what I did for my farewell party from my last job.

Analiza: What's the recent book you read or a really good book you've read?

Lindsay: So the book that I've read recently is No Cure For Being Human by Kate Bowler. It's a friend of my husband's but I think a lot of people may know her, but it's amazing. She's someone who was type A academic really sort of shooting for the stars and then was diagnosed with stage four colon cancer. But it is a very good human funny book about sort of the things that people say to you when you get a diagnosis like that? And like what is actually helpful and get perspective? I think it's a great book.

Analiza: What's your favorite way to practice self care?

Lindsay: Okay, so this is a good one because it took me maybe 40 years to learn to sleep. My husband would like he will roll over hearing this like, this is what something has been telling me that we've been together 19 years like, I think he's been telling me this from the beginning, like just go to sleep, and it'll be better in the morning. It is my go to if I am just feeling like the world is crazy. Sleep is better.

Analiza: What's the professional development you've done?

Lindsay: I gotta say Teacher and Leader by Maia Heyck-Merlin is one of my favorites. I go to her books all the time. And then I would also say Christina Harbridge, she runs a company called Allegory, Inc. and I've done a ton of hers just on how you can communicate to others, listen, and just the power of storytelling in our work.

Analiza: What's your definition of a Boss Mama?

Lindsay: For me, the Boss Mama is there's so much we can make about hustle culture. And for me, it's about somebody who is just like living that balance and that seesaw of doing work that's important to them, whatever that work might be, that could be work in the home, but just doing something that is true to them that makes them happy and being present for their life, like your tattoo.

Analiza: Exactly. What advice would you give your younger self?

Lindsay: I think I would give myself two pieces of advice, which is just like stop worrying about the external markers. And I think something I learned because of sort of everything we had in childhood, I used to think that if I could worry about it enough, then I could either prevent it, or just be ready when or if something challenging happened. And what I learned since then is just that you're spending all this time worrying, being unhappy and then even ever happy then you're just doubly unhappy. And so I have sort of learned to just navigate that a little bit better not try and control. I mean, if anything the pandemics taught us it's that we can't control.

Analiza: Where can we find you?

Lindsay: I am on LinkedIn and Twitter and Instagram. My daughter's trying to get me on TikTok, but I'm not there yet.

Analiza: Okay, last question. Do you have a final ask recommendation or any parting thoughts with our audience?

Lindsay: It would just be to find your village and build it and nurture it. And I think it will make it a real village. I think the thing that happened in ours was like we used to make jokes when one of us was making a transition like can I still be a uomo if I don't have this job and, and so I think we've just allowed ourselves to be super vulnerable and human. And it's sort of like once you're in, you're in. So keep your guard down and be human.

Analiza: Thank you so much, Lindsay for this time. Thanks. Sorry for the little dog.

Lindsay: Thank you.

Analiza: Thank you so much for carving out time today to hear today's podcast. Three things before you go. First, if you found it helpful, please leave a five star review. Second, please share with someone else you can share the link and post on Facebook and say check it out. Lastly, I want to thank you for being a listener and you can go to get a free self care bonus called juice your joy at Analizawolf.com/freebonus. Thank you so much.