Analiza: Hi, I'm Analiza Quiroz Wolf, proud Asian-American, mama of two kiddos. I went from being a burned out mama to being a Boss Mama, being a boss at work home, and play. I'm on a mission to help more women be Boss Mamas. If you want to thrive at work without sacrificing family or self care, you are in the right place. For detailed show notes, go to analizawolf.com/podcast and be sure to subscribe because I send out the best secrets I learn from my guests to my email subscribers. Now let's get into today's show.

How can a Boss Mama put her family first yet also have a career that makes her happy? For this episode, Analiza talks with Lizette Dubacher. Lizette is Mexican American, born in Laredo, Texas and raised in Mexico. Ever since Lizette was a little girl, she was an achiever. Lizette got her BS from Tecnologico de Monterrey, her masters at Universidad de Monterrey, and her MBA from Harvard Business School. Along the way, Lizette continued to climb the corporate ladder and was handpicked to lead Electronic Data System’s account start-up in Latin America. At Harvard, Lizette fell in love with a fellow student and she followed him across Europe to Spain, Germany, and then back to the US. They had 2 daughters, and Lizette found herself needing to choose between her own career aspirations and her husband’s, while seeing her peers continue to climb in their career. Lizette is a wonderful example of the Boss Mama strategy Mastering Your Mindset. Step back, understand how society and our families often define success for us, and take time to decide for ourselves. Who am I? What do I really want? Lizette shares her journey with digging deep into her soul and defining what success means to her. Lizette shares practical steps to find a fulfilling career that puts family as number one.

So I actually want to start our conversation with the question of being an achiever, going way back to when you're young. Where did it all start.

Lizette: I always wanted to be the best, whatever that meant and I guess in kindergarten being recognized as you're a very smart kid, you're a good kid. And then Elementary School, also best grades, I wanted to be the top all the time, I wanted to get the best grades. It was very clear in my mind through elementary school that I had to be the person who bears the flag. So in Mexico we do every Monday, we do assembly, we sing the national anthem, and there's a small flag guard, you can call it off six people, the best of the best holds the flag every Monday. So to me, that was my goal. Always through first, second, third, fourth, fifth grade. That's what I want it to be. So it was very clear in my mind what I had to do, how did that go? I was not that person. And that hurt. Like hell, it was awful. I had the best grades but so did a guy. So we had a test. He apparently beat me for a couple of points. And for me it was devastating. It was devastating. And it was also like it's not fair. I've worked all this time all these years, right? So it was tragic. I really remember crying a lot and suffering a lot and being disappointed in myself because I was supposed to be the best and this martyr and so I have to wait another three years in middle school to be that person because it also happens to this man in middle school. So finally after three years, I did it. I was carrying the flag for a whole year, but it was painful. And it caused me a lot, a lot of effort and a lot of pain. But I did it. I achieved it.

Analiza: I can picture you carrying that flag and also looking at that guy while you're carrying that flag and saying.

Lizette: Oh, that's the flag every Monday every Monday for a year. Can you believe it? But one learns from those experiences? Yeah.

Analiza: So is that that that pressure comes from parents or where did that come from?

Lizette: I don't remember my Parents putting pressure on me. I think it was more like I was born like that. I think that I just became that way.

Analiza: I love that you mentioned that it's actually still in you today. And we're talking about it. Because often as women, as moms seen as ambitious, it's not particularly attractive. I really appreciate that you shared that. Because it helped for a time when you went to these great schools and climbed the corporate ladder, you eventually went to Harvard, for Business School. And all of those are, by society's definitions, incredibly successful. So I want to bring us to the moment when you meet your partner, and you're at Harvard, and you fall in love. And you're both obviously ambitious. So when did you have that conversation between the two of you to talk about what that could mean to have two very ambitious people?

Lizette: So I remember clearly when we got job offers, and we had to decide where to go. And we talked about our priorities then. And we were not married, then we're just dating. And we said, Well, how do we do this? Right? I had offers in California and he had an offer in Switzerland. So what are we going to do? He said, Look, I want to live in the US. And I can ask for a transfer from the office that he was getting the job in Switzerland, and I will follow you. And the thing was clear to us that we were getting serious about our relationship. And that family was going to be first. It was clear to me because I come from Mexico, which family is very important. That family was going to be first so my career was going to be second. Right. So then we said, okay, so family first, his career second, and my career third.

Analiza: Thanks for that. So I appreciate so much that you had this conversation before you were married, a really honest conversation, what are your priorities? What are mine? And are we aligned, because if we're not, we need to have a different conversation. I really appreciate that honesty, in the beginning, and also that it is unique to find someone who also values family, to the degree you do. So that's beautiful. So it seems like you got lucky right with both him and also finding a role for both of you and to be together in Texas. I'm guessing though, that as we fast forward, there's gonna be a time when it didn't work as planned. And you actually had to make some tough decisions.

Lizette: And one of the toughest was I was trying to get pregnant, still working. He was a consultant. So he was offered a job with one of his clients, a big job was in Puerto Rico. And I was trying to get pregnant in Dallas, that was very tough, because it's like, well, you're going to be commuting or wanting to move, then I need to quit my job, right. I mean, that was a very difficult decision. And I said, I'm not going to Puerto Rico. I mean, I'm just not going there. Because if I want to get pregnant, and we were going through fertility treatments, and all this, I have to be here, I already have my doctor here. But this is important for your career, because it's moving from consulting to a line job. So anyway, that was very hard. But he took the job, we said, we're gonna commute. And if it doesn't work, you know, I quit, we will find a way blah, blah, blah, got pregnant with twins. My whole pregnancy was alone, pretty much right? He was commuting, and I said, Look, this is not going to work, you got a new job within the same company in Spain. So then I said, Okay, I need to quit my job. But I also want to spend time with my kids together, you're not gonna travel as much, right? We're going to be in the same city, and then your career. And then my career at that point I decided to take.

Analiza: I'm reflecting on your partner and how they are again, you have these honest conversations, to spend time in fertility treatments, and then to finally get pregnant, and then to be alone? Because you're trying to put your husband's career there, but then to actually tell him, it's not okay. And no, I don't want to move to Puerto Rico, to actually put yourself in the equation that we're not just going to quietly follow but actually you have to say, and then for him to hear you and say okay, what works then for all of us. So now you're in Spain, which I love, that you're now together. He's not traveling as much and you're taking time off. So I want to talk about that. And it is privileged Lisette to be able to take time and financially for the family. Things are still working out. So we want to name what that is like? I mean, you go from an achiever mindset and now you have these babies at home?

Lizette: I just decided, Okay, I'm going to be the best mom, right? And I read every single book, parenting book and every single nutrition book and you know, I was just trying to be okay, want to be the best, because remember, that is always my motivation right? To be the best. Okay, so I cannot work because I have these little creatures with me, right? I mean, I'm gonna just be the best one. So that's what I did. So that went fast, a year and a half. But then we came back to the states to California this time. And then that was tough, because the girls were already almost two. They were toddlers, they started going to a preschool. And then what am I going to do, right? And I remember very clearly being in this playground and playing with the girls, and just, they were already playing with other kids. So I had more time, I called him and he said, I don't like this, I just cannot have another type of conversation, you know, preschool conversation, whatever. So I need to do something. I mean, otherwise I'm gonna just need some intellectuals. It's so guilty. And it's just this that women have all the time, right? It's like you feel guilty? If you are because you are if you're not, because you're not. It's just awful. And he said, Just look for a job. So I started networking and talking to people, and I was lucky enough, because I would say, I would tell myself, I haven't worked in two years, who's going to find a job after two years, nobody knows. And then who's gonna hire me with flexibility? Nobody, nobody that doesn't exist in the corporate world, right. But I did find something that was very close to my house. The beginning was a contracting job, so I could just whatever else I was working. And then I started getting more responsibility. And I became the head of strategic planning. But that journey helped me go back slowly and feel comfortable. I can do this, I can combine the states, I got help. I mean, I'm privileged to be lucky and the resources to be able to do this. I'm convinced that if you know, what you want, what really makes you happy, which is a journey, that is not an easy thing to say, right? I mean, it's just you have to spend the time asking yourself, what is it that I want? What is it that makes me happy?

Analiza: Yes. So there are so many really great pieces here that I want to just give some about systems. So thinking through, you're on the playground, with your kids, thinking about them being in daycare, and realizing that actually you want more, and having a conversation with your partner to say I want more, and him saying and you saying you deserve more, which is really great, because sometimes that can be a tension where actually I should be doing mom duty, I need to be the only one, I can't have a caregiver do it. Because that would mean that I don't love my kids enough. So one to see that you can and want more, and your partner giving absolutely agreement to that. And then to you releasing the mom guilt, that you didn't have to be the only one. So I'm curious about that. Because mom guilt is a thing.

Lizette: I don't think you get rid of that completely. I just think you have to manage it right and say, I think I'm a better mom and a better person, if I'm happy. And it happens to be that being working and doing what you like makes me happy. So that's what you need to think. I'm going to be a better mom, I'm going to be able to be a wife, I'm going to be better if I'm happy. And if that makes me happy. Let's try to find and then you have conversations with your kids too, right? depends on the age, obviously. But like, Hey, Mommy likes to do this. Can you support that? Can you help us? Can we work as a family better?

Analiza: I think society loves that it says, you know, here's what a mama does, and is and is always around. And that's what it means to be the best, right? You're an achiever, you want to be the best. And yet, you're going to look at society and say, Actually, I have a different definition. That's about doing what makes me happy. And that means I'm going to work. And I'm going to talk to my kids about being a mom, being a leader, a worker, and how you contribute to the family and playing this role. And also the mom role, they're all together. That's so great, because guilt is there and to recognize that it's normal and to actually still define success and happiness on your own terms. That's the key. So I love that walking through so when you recognize that you want to do more you get your partner to agree to you see the mom guilt and you choose still to center yourself. And then three, you talked about figuring out, taking time to see what does make you happy. So I'd actually like to spend time there, because you're like, here you go, and I have this job that is 10 minutes away. I was like, wow, you know, there's a process here. So if you could try to help us understand, what did that look like for you to figure that out for yourself and then find that job?

Lizette: You know, I'm getting older, and I need to think about, you know, what I want to do the rest of my life in five years, my kids are going to college, right? So I spend at least six months trying to work with a coach, career coach, and she helped me a lot to say, okay, she said, What do you want? And I will always go back to Well, I think I should do this. No, no, no, no, what you should do is what you want to do, what makes you happy? What gives you reward? Which type of people do you want to work with? You know, do you want to work alone? Do you want to work in a team? Do you want to just picture yourself? What is the best setting for you? What type of questions or tasks do you want to be doing? What type of conversation do you want to be having? I work with her a lot, like six hours on that. And then I also did this on my own, I put together a matrix, a good Excel and numbers and, and that gave me so much peace, you know, because I said, Okay, so what are the things I value? And then I waited for them right? Which one is more important? Do I care about money, like I care about titles like I care about commuting? You know, do I care about the people that are working with? Do I care about flexibility? Do I care, I'll talk like all the criteria 10 or so criteria, right? And then the types of jobs that I could get, because you also need to be realistic at work as a doctor? If I'm not right, I mean, what type of jobs could I do, and I have like five or six different jobs. And then I just point to each of those criteria, and then weigh them. And then I got my Excel file where, you know, was color coded, and you know, everything I bagged, dated with my husband and evaluated, but I showed it to him. So what do you think, am I prioritizing this? Right? And then I also have thought partners, which I think is very important. So people who know you very well, professionally, personally, if possible, right? And I had that conversation with them, too. What do you think? Do you think that this is what makes me happy to think that you've known me for 20 years like to just talk to people, because sometimes you're so fixated, where, you know, this is what I have to be? No, but that's not what you have to be, one of you should be what you want to be right, especially in the last part of your life. So so they know that and I just spent time networking, connecting, talking to people, I met some wonderful people, you know, like, that's how I met you in this journey of finding, you know, in doing jobs pro bono at the beginning, just, hey, I want to see if I like this, you know, am I good at it before I commit to something. So I spent a total one year with this search, until I found the job that I think is gonna make me happy, right? Or at least in the next step of my life, you cannot say forever, right? But I found almost exactly what I wanted. But I have the luxury of time. I mean, I'm not having the rush or the urgency to find a job because my husband worked. And then I also had very good people around me that I could have conversations with. So don't stay alone, right? Don't try to find the solution on your own, do some work, you have to have conversations with other women, women like you, people who know you, well, people you have worked with. And that helps a lot. I mean, it's really amazing how it takes a village, you know, I think to come up with good answer. I think I've proven it twice, that if you have taken the time, you are honest with yourself, you can find what you want. Now, in my case, he was good. But I didn't want to be a CEO. And I didn't want to be this superduper professional woman. But that's not what I want. You know, that's not what I want. I really wanted more satisfaction and balance in my life. And I think that's what you need to do.

Analiza: Well that I can't help but ask. So tell me more about this job you found if you can share, like here's what my values were my priorities on my sheet. And then here is kind of what then I ended up finding. I'm curious, can you share more about that?

Lizette: Yeah, so my top priority actually was flexibility and autonomy. I wanted to have a job where I could still have time once in a while. I've been on not every day right because this is a full time job but to go and see my girls soccer game or to go and walk I do yoga, you know, yoga for me is important and or walking or whatever. It is right. So that was my priority number one, number two or three were the people that I work with good people, driven people, but also people, not only professionals, I like to have that relationship, not only of as a professional, but that I have common interest with these people, either because they also have kids or because they also like to read or because they also whatever, right? I want to have people hopefully here in the community, right, because I'm new, relatively new here. So I wanted to connect to help people with my job. So I'm a business consultant. The last part of my career before, before now was strategic planning. So I wanted to do that, I started helping small business owners with their business on a pro bono basis, I really enjoy that. So I wanted to have a job where I could use all those things, my strengths, and also help people. So I found that now I start working in a couple of weeks, I already signed everything with a small boutique consulting company, which is focused on helping family owned businesses. So very similar to what I have been doing pro bono. But now on a bigger scale bigger companies in the community, you don't have to travel just two hours radio, all the clients are here in this area live in Pennsylvania so I can work from home unless I have to go and see clients for workshops and things. But I can believe that I really found what I really want.

Analiza: I'm so happy for you and to share your gifts and your strengths with the world. And then for your girls to see that mom can be a leader at work, contribute at work that also makes you happy so you can even better contribute as a mom as a spouse as a family member. Just beautiful. I'd love love. Love it.

Lizette: Thank you. Thank you.

Analiza: So with that we've got some fun lightning round questions to end.

Lizette: Okay.

Analiza: Chocolate or vanilla?

Lizette: Chocolate for sure.

Analiza: Cooking or takeout?

Lizette: Yep. Cooking,

Analiza: Climb a mountain or jump from a plane?

Lizette: Climb a mountain.

Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Lizette: You know, I hate that. No, never.

Analiza: How would you rate your karaoke skills on a scale of 1 to 10 and 10 being Mariah Carey?

Lizette: Oh, my God, I think it's like, 7.

Analiza: Recent book you've read?

Lizette: Michael Sandalwood’s Tyranny of Merit. Very good book, I recommend it.

Analiza: What is your favorite way to practice self care?

Lizette: Yoga.

Analiza: What's a really good professional development you've done?

Lizette: I think working with a coach.

Analiza: What's your definition of a Boss Mama?

Lizette: I think somebody who tries to balance life and work and is continually struggling to do it. But that is committed to both.

Analiza: And what advice would you give your younger self?

Lizette: I would tell myself, it's okay not to be perfect. It's okay. I wish I had learned that earlier on. That wouldn't have saved me a lot of tears and allergies. I got very bad allergies when I was stressed out. So yeah, just you don't have to be perfect.

Analiza: And where can we find you like LinkedIn or anything like that?

Lizette: Yeah. So LinkedIn for sure I'm there. I also work with the acceleration project. It's a nonprofit organization. We help minority owned businesses. So you can go to website the Acceleration Project, by the way, they are looking for driven women who want to help others. It's a great organization based in New York, so I highly recommend that.

Analiza: And then our last question is do you have a final ask recommendation or any parting thoughts with our audience?

Lizette: I would just say we all struggle doesn't matter if you are a stay at home mom, if you are something in between we all struggle, you know all women struggle. And I think we only women understand that. I think it's a I'm convinced that is just not the same for men, right men, especially if you have kids, and you know, but we all struggle, so don't so don't suffer alone. Don't struggle alone. Talk to other women, because we can really help each other.

Analiza: Thank you so much Liz, for our conversation. I really appreciate you and I really appreciate your stories, learned a ton and I know others will too.

Lizette: Thank you. Thank you for everything else.It was great talking to you.

Analiza: Thank you so much for carving out time today to hear today's podcast. Three things before you go. First, if you found it helpful, please leave a five star review. Second, please share it with someone else. You can share the link and posts on Facebook and say check it out. Lastly, I want to thank you for being a listener and you can go to get a free self care bonus called juicy or joy at analizawolf.com/freebonus. Thank you so much.