Analiza: Hi, I'm Analiza Quiroz Wolf, proud Asian-American, mama of two kiddos. I went from being a burned out mama to being a Boss Mama, being a boss at work home, and play. I'm on a mission to help more women be Boss Mamas. If you want to thrive at work without sacrificing family or self care, you are in the right place. For detailed show notes, go to analizawolf.com/podcast and be sure to subscribe because I send out the best secrets I learn from my guests to my email subscribers. Now let's get into today's show.

Do you know what feeds your soul?

Today we are talking with Natalie Mackey, CEO of Glow Concept, a holding company which owns brands like Winky Lux. After graduating from Parsons, Natalie started her career in finance and then pivoted to starting a fashion licensing company and then Glow Concept.

In Boss Mamas, we talk about the importance of juicing your joy, knowing what feeds your soul and setting up your life as a mom so that work revolves around your life and not the other way around. Natalie shares her experience knowing that her friends and networks are important to her, and how she made sure that whether planning for a nanny, maternity leave, or how to share child responsibilities with her husband, she still made time for what was important for her. By doing this, Natalie has been able to create a life that feeds her baby, family, and her soul.

I’m excited for you to hear this Boss Mama!

Analiza: Natalie, we're going to kick off this conversation talking about dating. You are really, I'll call it unique in that. You told me when we first met that you love to date. You said, I'm happily married. But when I was single, I loved to date. It was fun. Tell me more about that.

Natalie: I think New York gets a bad rap. I think New York is like the most fun place today in the world. There's so many people, there's so many smart, interesting people, I thought it was a blast. And it was kind of like when I was single it was the apps were out people were on the app. And I think maybe I was approaching it from a perspective of like, I'd had some serious relationships. And I had some years of being single, another serious relationship that is some years of being single. And so maybe, because of that I just had this really fun perspective on it. I felt like I was gonna meet a lot of cool people. And to be honest, I met a lot of friends too. I still have a really good friend that I met on a blind date on an app who I ended up becoming very good friends with. And now I'm very good friends with his wife. Any crazy stories are particularly fun stories of a person that you met during a date. Definitely some weird dates are out there. And then there are some really great ones. I remember when I first when the dating apps were first new, you know, like hinge and Tinder and all those things just really first come out and people were you like you didn't really know how to use them, you know, arrange to like have a cocktail with someone you show up and find out that they were completely looked completely different from what they said they did. Or their job was a little funny. You're like, wait a minute, what is that you do? Again? No, like, wow, I know, in my profile, it says I do this. But then there's this, I’m really like taking a break from work. And it's like, okay, got it. You live in your mom's basement. That's cool. So I think there's definitely some really great things about those apps because they just open up so many new opportunities to meet people. But there's also a lot of nonsense on there, too. I still think it's like, I think people should enjoy going out to bars too, and still enjoy themselves. Although now I see young people sitting on phones just texting each other. So I don't know what that's about.

Analiza: That's a real party and we all sat around on our phones. That is a different generation. I want to bring us back to when you were a kid. Did you always have this dream of being an entrepreneur?

Natalie: I think I did it in a really abstract way. When I was 16. My 16th birthday, I got my driver's license, and I went to a really large public high school where there were almost 4000 students. And so taking the bus was a really long drawn out process. And I had a brother and sister who are twins and they were freshmen. And it was really tough, particularly for freshmen. They were, you know, they had no control. They would have to set up a bus for like an hour, hour and a half in the morning. And so I started basically like the first Uber real, really, really rough version Uber where I had a spreadsheet and I was picking up freshmen and dropping them off and then taking them home in the afternoon. And my brother and sister were kind of like my marketing team. I can't remember what I charge. Somebody was asking me the other day, like, what was the fee? And 2001. And I think the fee was like, three or four bucks each way. I think I was really raking it in though at like, if it was $4, and it was raking in it because it was an Uber pool, you know, so I packed it in.

Analiza: That's amazing. You are the preliminary Uber even before there was a concept. I love, love that. So let's say that you're like the CEO of Winky Lux. And how did that path? Did you have that specific dream of running your own company?

Natalie: I love building businesses. I like building things. And I started my career in finance. And then I pretty quickly left after about five years and went into almost the fashion industry in licensing and consulting. And I was an entrepreneur there too. I started that company with a friend of mine who was an executive at the time in the fashion industry. And it was really cool. But it was client services. So what I realized pretty quickly, or at least over the four years that I was there was that it really is tough to build a big business when you're selling time, because it's such a finite resource. And during that time, too, is working with a lot of other companies. And it was clear that I was very passionate about products and companies that I really love having that emotional connection to the product. And so I also did a little bit of work with some beauty companies. And I was enamored with that because not just because I love beauty products, but because I do love beauty. I was always a beauty junkie. But I thought that it was just a really cool industry in general. There's a lot of really smart people. It was very heavy on storytelling, which I love. And it was really pretty fun. So I ended up Winky Lux or or starting Winky Lux kind of circuitous way, my business partner and I were building a tech platform that was going to be a marketplace for beauty products. And as a side thing, we were kind of building out this brand. And while we were doing this big focus group to understand how to really refine our user experience for the marketplace, what we found out was number one, nobody really cared about the marketplace. Number two, there was this big hole in the industry that a lot of women were really kind of caught in between mass cosmetics and prestige cosmetics. So they really, especially younger women could afford mass. But they felt a little bit bad about it, which was kind of an interesting learning for us. And then they also really coveted their prestige products, like little pieces of jewelry. And then on top of that we had this little brand that we were kind of going green up on the side to monetize in the marketplace, and it was called Winky Lux. And because it was a side thing, it wasn't her primary goal at the time, it was very fearless. And it's like an idea that we did a lot of really fun florals. We got me on this way in 2015, when everybody was doing minimalism, and the customers were during that focus group. We're like, what is this? This is like the funnest little, like the cutest little brand, like what is this about? And so that's how we just leaned into it and went into the most competitive space ever. Instead of building a tech platform, and in hindsight, it was a really great move. But at the time, I remember talking to investors and advisors and they were like, What are you doing? This is like starting a beauty business is a really hard, long slog, whereas these marketplaces are inventory late, and they're super hot right now. And truth be told, there's a lot of them that came out of that that are amazing, like Farfetch and first dibs. But then there were a lot that failed to affect, I'd say the vast majority of them because they didn't really solve the customer's problem. Long story. But that's how I came to be the CEO of Winky Lux.

Analiza: I love that story. And I also love that somewhere along this journey, you met your husband. So was that one of the dating apps? Or how did that happen?

Natalie: We met at ditch plains, not the beach, the bar that used to exist in the West Village. And I was like, deep in the weeds with entrepreneurship. And we started kind of casually dating or he's like, Hey, let's collect to grab a drink or something. And at the time, he worked at the State Department, and I couldn't quite figure out what he did. And I remember telling my friend, I was like, I'd probably never going to date this guy. You know, he's a special agent at the State Department. Like, what does that even mean? I don't know. We're just misaligned and we're going to like four or five dates. And I was like, maybe this is actually really great if we had a really similar background, although he had been in private equity for a really long time before he went to the State Department. So we actually had a ton in common and ended up falling in love and getting married and having Kids. But if but definitely in the beginning, I was like, oh, no, no, it's all right.

Analiza: Did you have like a moment where you said, Oh, he's the one?

Natalie: Probably we went on a trip together. And it was very much like a year of yes type trip where he said, Hey, do you want to go up to Martha's Vineyard with me? And, you know, I've actually never been there? Sure, fine, I'll go with you. I knew we'd been dating for like two weeks at the time. And so we went there, we stayed for like four or five days. And I remember driving back and being like, I guess now I'm just gonna date and marry this guy. On the road back, I was like, Well, I guess we're boyfriend and girlfriend now. But he's amazing. And like, there's two men in my life, like I couldn't do any of this business without and that's what my husband was my co-founder. And so they're definitely got some supportive allies there.

Analiza: That's super interesting, because not only did he go from not sure to this is the one. But this is also the one who's going to work with me actually, for you. So can you talk about that let happen?

Natalie: Yes, so that no one's confused. Newman, and I started the company together. We've been friends for, at this point, 16 years, about two and a half years in, we were interviewing CFOs. And everybody we interviewed had less experience than me, which was terrifying. And they were not really bringing much to the table. And then we interviewed a few people that we could not afford, that were really impressive, and knew exactly what they were doing. And I remember almost crying at the times my fiance was like, This is the worst thing ever. This is the error that the company breathes, right is how the capital comes in and out of the business. It's really, somebody has to watch it all the time. And actually, I had never known one business in my years on the investing side. And then as an entrepreneur and knowing a lot of other entrepreneurs, I've never known anybody who hired a CFO, or an HR person too early. These are like two things that are really important, at least like a breakout, we have an outsourced agency that does our HR, but like someone has to do it. And so I sort of bamboozled him into the company long story short, and at the time, he was actually like interviewing to go back into the private sector and have this be so great. Let's put all of our financial eggs in one basket. She's just bet the house,

Analiza: Literally, so do you have any rules to keep your marriage together? Because I think there's nothing that says like, don't do business with family and that you're your partner.What is the rule?

Natalie: It's helpful that we are extremely different in the way that we think about things, it's helpful that we respect each other, like we both respect each other's ethics, and sort of like the way we think about how we treat people and business. And that goes for my co-founder as well, like, like our moral and ethical values are aligned. But Eric's skill set is so different from mine. And so we kind of pretty siloed in the business, like Eric really works with my co founder, Nate and I work with the marketing teams. And I really, the times that I work with Eric, later, when we're in the midst of a fundraiser, because obviously, he's like, vomiting reports and things like that. So that's when we work together the most, but for the most part, like day in day out, really like talking to each other, maybe once or twice a day. And previously, when we were in a much bigger office, when everyone was there in the office all the time, you know, we were kind of across the office in different zones and in different offices. So I mean, same main office, the different small offices, if that makes any sense.

Analiza: That makes sense. And I actually have this idea of having separate spaces and then trusting that you're going to get your work done is huge, because you can use that with not just work but also within personal life. Because we don't, we try not to overlap. I feel like tension happens when you overlap, you have a lot of strong feelings and all of a sudden you're in more fight-like mode. So I appreciate the separation and respect.

Natalie: I think you have to doubt that. Otherwise, it would just be too full on. Like anyone can really be in the weeds with somebody 24 hours a day all the time, as we saw during COVID I really got to know their spouse.

Analiza: During this time. So you're pregnant and you're planning for the baby. You also live in New York, this question about nanny because it's the one that moms in New York especially talk through. Can you talk that through with us?

Natalie: I think that childcare is the most stressful part of parenting unless you have a course not would. Of course if you have your child sick or anything like that, that's the most stressful thing. But in the sort of regular parenting, child care, I think is the thing that weighs heaviest At least for me, and for a lot of my friends and fellow female entrepreneurs, I feel like it really is something people talk about and think about a lot. Because it is expensive. And it's tough to find great nannies. It's sort of like hunger games out there. I think I interviewed 10 nannies before I hired mine. And I hired her like three weeks before the baby was even born. Because I knew she was pretty great. And there was going to be a little bit of a war to get her. But it's tough. It's definitely like one of those things where taking massive financial investment in your career. Huge. I think for a lot of women, it is 100% of their salary is going through a nanny in the first couple of years of their child's life, which when you think about it, it's just extraordinary.

Analiza: So there's a lot you said there, I want to unpack some of it. One is that the cost of a nanny is the cost of a salary, like one woman's job, it truly you're paying for another person to take care of your baby, which is very hard in terms of decision making. And then the second part is just that you said there was a war or for getting hurt. Talk to us about that.

Natalie: Sure. So New York is a really competitive market for all things like that. And they get his flowed particularly during COVID. But there are we, you know, when I had the baby, we were still pretty much in the heat of COVID. And it's great nannies were just getting paid like exorbitant amounts of money. And they were getting snatched up really quick, because all of a sudden people who were relying on things like daycare, you know, daycares were shutting, errant. Like intermittently, they were like saying, Oh, we had a kid that got a cough. But not everybody has to go home. So you had parents that really had to do their job, who needed to, they needed something more reliable than that, or parents whose kids were virtually learning, which meant that they were now both teacher, principal, and insert profession in blank. So if you were a lawyer, you were a lawyer, teaching for a PE coach, you were the whole thing. So I think there was a big demand, or there still is a big demand for nannies in New York.

Analiza: So as an entrepreneur, you were pretty clear, you want to keep working, keep working on your business. So what strategies allowed you to be both CEO and also mama to Whitney?

Natalie: Like radical prioritization, making sure that I really do the things that feed my soul, and you know, that are important for the business and also kind of important for me, but not the things that aren't, there are definitely things that I have dropped. And also in the company, too, there's so many things that are while I was on maternity leave, we really learned how to process better. So the company became a lot more efficient. In a way it was almost like a gift made being gone was like a magical moment, because everything really had anything you didn't have process for before had that process in order for me to leave. And I didn't want us we're on April 1, April Fool's Day. And so that is actually a really super busy time for us in this industry. So we had to have a lot of decisions made far, far far in advance. And because of that year, I think we're much better at planning, we're much more well oiled machines. Because of that, like our my or executive team, it really understands sort of the purpose filter for making decisions. So I don't actually have to be in a lot of those conversations anymore the way I did a year ago.

Analiza: Which was your maternity leave plan. So you had Whitney April 1, what did that look like? Next month ahead.

Natalie: So I told the team that we were going to get ready for me to be gone. For three months solid, no contact, it didn't turn out that way. Because Whitney thank God was really healthy, she was really sort of thrived and still thriving. And I was able to punch in for very important things here or there. However, I wanted to make sure that God forbid, she had not been well or if she'd been born early or something like that, that we had this really tight buttoned up plan. And then so what I did is I took two full months off, I think I dialed in for maybe three or four meetings. And then the last two months, instead of taking like a four month maternity leave, I split those months into four months and did part time. And that was also a really interesting exercise in prioritization because from 8:30 in the morning until noon, I was available, but then after that I wasn't so it really helped the team get on this page of understanding when they couldn't could not talk to me. And so everyone, I think, became like a really extraordinary planner. And of course, people could text me it was a huge emergency, but we really didn't have any because I think we were planning so carefully. And I think that has trickled into the business going forward, like we've become much better planners.

Analiza: Natalie, in addition to business strategies, you also worked it out with your husband at home to figure out how to set up schedules. So I worked with the entire family, what did that look like?

Natalie: Our daughter's very early riser. So as my husband, that was something that he was naturally inclined to do these mornings, but he would also get really burnt out by the end of the week, and felt like he was kind of losing his sense of self and friendships and things like that. So one thing that was really important to him as on Sundays, he loves to watch football, he loves to see his friends and watch football. And so we kind of created this deal that for the three hours or two and a half hours every morning before the nanny arrives, he would really take that, and I could work out, I could get ready, I could sleep, I usually sleep like an hour and a half later than him. I still am kind of an early riser. He's just like a psycho early riser. And then on Sundays, I would take the baby, it's really nice, because it gives us a chance to kind of know that we have that time. You know, like we have that time for ourselves. The only thing that I wish I could do is get a manicure at like seven in the morning. That's like my new lunch thing. They'll take a call and get a manicure in the middle of the day. Yeah, that's the, it's nice to have those set times that you know, you're going to have to yourself, because I'm like that is there, like we're working, we're on the phone.

Analiza: I also love that there's a notice of where you're most in your groove. So understanding that your husband is a morning person, and that's perfect for him. And that Sunday is actually perfect for you making it work with what you already know works for you. Totally. It'll lean into your strengths. Yes. And with that, you've also leaned into what fuels you and your self care and community. Can you talk about that?

Natalie: I still see friends, it's like, at least once a week, if not twice a week, I'll still watch dinner or have a business cocktail hour. I think that really fuels my soul. And it also inspires me in work. And I need that inspiration. It's a good and a bad thing. But as an entrepreneur, a lot of times my social life and my business life are really very blurred. And so there isn't a real big line. I have a lot of friends who are also entrepreneurs, I get a lot of advice from them, but they're also my friend, we kind of support each other and seeing them is so important to me, because without that, I think I might go crazy. And so I kind of have, again, my husband goes to bed really early. So my child goes. I've sort of arranged her schedule. So she's waking up really early, she's going to bed early, and at least one night per week, I can kind of get out and have dinner with a few people, which I think would the night we met, I like put the baby down, he went to bed, my husband goes to bed. So it's like he goes to bed at like 7:38. You know, I'm like out the door. And it's nice to still have that because it is quick to start kind of forgetting who you are as a person.

Analiza: That's so true. In fact, we forget who we are. And we drop those things that fuel us and community is one of the first things we don't have time for friends, the people who have supported us along this journey, the hard times. And it feels like well, you know, once a month, once a year, not investing time yet. It's really important to keep this going, especially when we're a new mom, any other when you look back at your life, and even now, anything else that strikes you in terms of sharing with the audience?

Natalie: I'm certainly no expert on childbearing. I wouldn't even call myself an expert in business. But I would say that, like any success that I've had, a lot of that network has really helped with that. So building those relationships over time, investing in that over time has really, that's been I think the most important thing like any female entrepreneurs out there, I would just encourage them to build an A friend group of other female entrepreneurs as well, to kind of have that support because it is hard out that's cold world out there for female entrepreneurs. We hit a 10 year low of venture funding this year. It's like there's all these women leaving the workforce. It's really, it's been a tough year for ladies. So you know, having those girls to like hold hands with I think can be really like the way to survive it.

Analiza: I mean, like to double down on that Natalie, because I think as women we are so focused on serving others, especially our families that are ahead about ourselves and also forget that network is so essential to our career friendship, also career and what happens as we become moms and we go older, we don't nurture that network yet. On the other side, males are constantly meeting new people. And so as they rise up in their career, their friends or network is also rising up in their career and as they get more senior all of a sudden then you have a huge group of people to pitch to to hire, invest, and it just keeps growing. And while women then start opting out of the workforce, it's just like a double edged sword keeps spiraling where then there's a discrepancy that fuels this male and female divide. So I'm glad you raised that. Because the networking piece is so essential.

Natalie: It really is.

Analiza: All right.

Natalie: And the great news is there's so many great women now who run companies or who have, you know, incredible stellar careers. And a lot of them are moms too. So it's nice to even find that group as well. Like kind of your mom, mom entrepreneur group.

Analiza: Yeah, definitely. So with that, let's do lightning round questions.

Natalie: Sure.

Analiza: First one chocolate or vanilla?

Natalie: Vanilla.

Analiza: Cooking or takeout?

Natalie: Cooking.

Analiza: Climb a mountain or jump on a plane?

Natalie: Climb a mountain.

Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Natalie: No. But I see some of the cool kids in my company doing that. And it looks kind of cool.

Analiza: How would you rate your karaoke skills on a scale of 1 to 10 and 10 being Mariah Carey?

Natalie: Oh, I love karaoke. I would say from a love perspective, I'd say it died. But from a talent perspective, maybe like 5.

Analiza: What's the recent good book you've read?

Natalie: Dearly Beloved, a great book.

Analiza: What's your favorite way to practice self care?

Natalie: Forcing myself to work out even when I don't want to, I always get an endorphin high from it each time. I'm like, I hate this. I hate this. I hate this. In the end, I'm so happy I did it.

Analiza: That adored thing is real.

Natalie: So Real, so real.

Analiza: What's a good professional development that you have done?

Natalie: I have invested in coaching, which I think is great. Because I really do believe you can only grow your company as far as you can grow your management style. So or not style, but you can only give your management skills, you can really only grow the business as big as you can grow that. I feel like I've had some good coaches.

Analiza: What's your definition of a Boss Mama?

Natalie: Now that I am a mom, I see how crazy hard it is. I feel like all of them, like anyone who's like anyone who could go to work and raise a child is pretty badass. Pretty incredible. Yeah, and even the women who were honestly like the women who were just raising kids full time, that's actually a much harder job is some serious physical labor and emotional labor too. So I'm just like all moms everywhere. I feel like there are a ton of boss mamas out there.

Analiza: What advice would you give your younger self

Natalie: Would not take things so seriously. I think I took things really seriously when I was younger. Like I took successes and failures. like way too seriously. I think I would tell myself to like enjoy the journey a little bit more.

Analiza: And then where can we find you? Like LinkedIn or company website?

Natalie: Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn. I'm on Instagram. That's probably my best, best way to reach me. It's Natmack1. But I'm also on LinkedIn too. So hit me up.

Analiza: And then last question, do you have a final ask recommendation or any parting thoughts for the audience?

Natalie: Oh my god. Winky Lux is hiring. We're looking for awesome people. And we are workplace agnostic. So you can work remotely and we are just checking out our opportunities page and keep this in mind. Oh, and also I highly recommend her under eye concealer paper perfect. It is you're joking. You're like how did you get ready so fast with that said or I concealer with hyaluronic acid. So everybody needs a lot. Especially for a mom. I feel like that's the number one place that shows up for me is like my dark circles in the morning. So that is your way to pretend that you actually got a good night's sleep if you can't actually get a good night's sleep.

Analiza: Amazing. Alright, Natalie, thank you so much for our conversation. Appreciate you.

Natalie: You too.

Analiza: Thank you so much for carving out time today to hear today's podcast. Three things before you go. First, if you found it helpful, please leave a five star review. Second, please share it with someone else. You can share the link and post on Facebook and say check it out. Lastly, I want to thank you for being a listener and you didn't go to get a free self care bonus called juice your joy at analizawolf.com/free bonus. Thank you so much.