Analiza: Hi, I'm Analiza Quiroz Wolf, proud Asian American mama of two kiddos. I went from being a burned out mama to being a Boss Mama, being a boss at work, home, and play. I'm on a mission to help more women be Boss Mamas. If you want to thrive at work without sacrificing family or self care, you're in the right place. I'm launching my next cohort of women leaders starting in April. The online course is eight weeks and has helped achieving women get the balance, joy and fulfillment they deserve. Go to analizawolf.com/bossmamas to learn more. Now, let's get into today's show.

How does a Boss Mama overcome perfectionism - in 12 weeks?

In this episode, Analiza talks with Kim Lee. When Kim was in fourth grade, her teacher singled her out and told her parents, “I think Kim is going to struggle with doing well at school. She needs a different school and class, one that’s easier.” Kim’s parents did not accept this, had Kim evaluated, and found that she had a learning disability. With the right support, Kim could thrive at school. But that event changed Kim. At this young age, Kim decided she needed to give 150% to everything she did. Everything. Fast forward, Kim graduated from Radford University and became a senior leader in the U.S. government leading over 100 staff. Kim had a family, two kids, and even a thriving health business. But Kim was spent - giving 150% to everything. Kim shares her journey to becoming a Boss Mama. She shares the 5 steps she took to overcoming perfectionism and what this has opened up as a leader at work, mom, and friend.In Boss Mamas, we talk about the strategy of Simplifying to Success, understanding what matters and putting our energy and time there. Kim is a great example of this.

I can’t wait for you to meet this Boss Mama!

I wanted to share with everyone how we met because we're both in this coaching program, and you're my peer coach. So it's been really fun to have so much in common as achieving mom leaders and have this shared overcoming of perfectionism. So let’s start Kim with this question, where do you think your perfectionism started?

Kim: I think that my perfectionism started in my childhood. You know, I think so many times, we look back and kind of see what happened in our childhood that maybe paved the way that we are now. And, you know, when I was in fourth grade, there was kind of underlying, you know, thought that maybe I have a learning disability. And my parents really pushed for me to get tested, and ended up that I was diagnosed with a processing auditory learning disability. So you know, it was a disability that nobody could actually physically see. So it was, you know, years ago, it was one of those things where they looked at it and thought, well, you know, maybe she's just not trying hard enough. Or maybe she's not listening. But it really ended up being that I had this learning disability, I'll never forget, freshman year, my parents went for a conference, and the special education teacher told my dad, listen, you know, she's just gonna have to deal with maybe a community college or something, because there's no way she's getting into college, and I had decent grades. But this teacher was just so demoralizing. And she didn't just leave it there in the conference, that she brought it into the classroom with me. And it was like, basically, you're not going to amount to anything. So just kind of take to the middle bar and be happy with it. And I think at that point, is when I thought you know, what I am going to give everything I do 150%. So I could not only prove her wrong, because you know, being a teenager at that time, I was like, I'll show you. So I think that perfectionism really started then.

Analiza: I can connect to that demoralizing feeling of this adult who's trying to help you yet pushing you down. And that's a terrible feeling, especially since we want our teachers to encourage kids. We think we're both moms. We want our teachers to say, You know what, there's nothing that can stand in the way of your dreams, not Kim should go to a community college. Terrible.

Kim: It was an awful feeling. But I remember just kind of it made me rise to the occasion. And I remember when I graduated from Radford University down in Southern Virginia, got home and that weekend went to the high school and made a copy of that little diploma that they give you when you walk across the stage. And like, I remember her, the words were, oh, she'll fall flat on her face if she goes to a four year college. And so I put a little sticky on there and said, I guess I didn't fall flat on my face. And I gave it to the secretary to put in the mailbox because I thought, You know what, like, I hope to God that you don't do that to somebody else. Because there are some people who maybe would have taken that and gone Oh, okay. I'll just settle for, you know, what this teacher thinks I should do. So yeah, I think that was a pivotal point in my life that I still look back on.

Analiza: So Kim, taking that moment, because it obviously propelled you not just through high school, but graduating from Radford, and then onto your career, I mean, share with us an example of just the perfectionism and how you achieve beyond just graduation?

Kim: I learned a lot about myself going into the federal government and working in human resources, working with people. And I think, in the work environment, it was, oh, you can take this training, if you want. I signed up for every training course I could possibly get into in my first five to eight years there, because I thought, Okay, I just have to kind of keep going. And you know, when you're working towards promotions, in the federal government, it's competitive, but that's how you increase your salary. So at the end of the day, it's like, okay, I have to do what I have to do in order to kind of continue on, make sure that not only am I successful, but I'm also able to survive here in Washington, D.C. Metropolitan area. And I think when I got in there, it was surrounding myself with people who were successful, and trying to emulate things, you know, from my parents, from other HR professionals. I mean, I think it was just a mixture of things, it was always striving to do my best.

Analiza: So you're really successful, Kim and very senior in the federal government. So this is like a winning strategy, right? Like that terrible teacher who said, that terrible thing actually propelled you, it was like gas on this fire to prove pretty much everybody that you could do it. And you have. So tell me about a time when you didn't have that didn't win? Like, when was it hard to put this strategy into place?

Kim: There was one point in my life that I look back and think to myself, Man, like what is wrong with me? Like, why is this not working? And that was, and I know, I shared with you that my husband and I were trying to start a family, and it was just not working. And I was doing everything I was supposed to be doing. And you know, two and a half years of struggling with infertility and treatments, and going through tons of medical appointments. And I feel like that was when I thought, especially, I'm not winning at this at all. I'm doing everything I'm supposed to be doing. You know, I know I shared with you, I had gone back and started my master's degree. And I had taken a few classes, but I was trying to balance that and I was working full time. And here I am trying to start a family. And it was a real struggle. And there were times where I mean, you know, my husband and I were, we were just like, Okay, what is going on, and we're going at it with each other. And I feel like during that infertility of two and a half years, it was a lot. I mean, it put a lot of stress on us physically, emotionally, financially, it was a real struggle. Now, fortunately, we were able to be successful with IVF, after round after round. And I'll tell you, even during those infertility treatments, there were two things that stood out that I remember the doctor saying, oh my gosh, this has never happened. It's like one in a million chance that this would happen. And you know, I feel so bad and this happened to you. And I'm like, really? You know, how many more times do I have to hear, oh, one in a million times of this what happened? And it was happening to us. So I think during that time was really kind of when I thought like, Okay, I'm not winning, I don't know what to do, and really kind of just felt very lost. You know, we had a great support network, you know, with family and friends during that time. But at the end of the day, you know, you're kind of left with your own thoughts. And for somebody like me, who just kept wondering like, you know, okay, perfectionism 150% And then always coming up with a sorry, not this time, it became very frustrating.

Analiza: Thanks so much for sharing that Kim. I mean, I connect so well to it. I really appreciate you being vulnerable because for me when I went through infertility, I actually didn't talk about it with anybody. It felt really shameful. It felt like why am I not able to achieve this when I'm doing all The things so I'm really grateful you're sharing because you need to share that this is normal and not, it's hard. It's really hard. And that having a community of people to love us and support us is really important. We don't have to do it alone.

Kim: Right? I know, I remember, years ago, when this was going on, I went online and found some really neat support groups online. And I actually ended up creating a group here in my community of individuals that were going through infertility, and getting treatments and put together a group I ended up like, with 15 people, which was amazing, you would have, I would have never thought in my small community that I would have had that. But you know, we would meet for dinner. And it was nice to be able to kind of have that community as well, but be able to build it and kind of lead that group. So it was nice, but you're right, a lot of people do not talk about it. And you know, it's a very emotional thing to go through. So, you know, people say, oh, you know, I know how you feel it took me six months. And it's like, no, that's not how it feels. So definitely, it was all worth it. In the end. Now. My daughter is 12 and thriving and I have a 10 year old boy who keeps me on my toes.

Analiza: So can this perfectionism continue? I mean, it kept continuing with all the things not just work, but also personal and even your business. But I'm curious, like, what have you achieved? What were the costs? Can you give us an example of what it looked like for you giving 150% to everything?

Kim: It was exhausting. You know, I remember doing things that weren't even expected of me. I mean, a few years ago, I found myself labeling containers for my pantry, you know, veggies, fruits, all these things. And at the end of the day, I'd say, you know, to the family, hey, look, like isn't this great? And I was so proud of it, you know, but I spent two days doing this. And my son would say, Yeah, that's great. But you know, did you know that I made XYZ on the computer and came and looked at, you know, what I did, and I missed those moments of being present with my kids, because I thought that I needed to put my attention to other things. But really, at the end of the day, nobody cared that there was a red bin that said, veggies, you know, in the pantry, I mean, when you look at like, what's the cost? I mean, the cost is missing out on those times with my family, I would say also, just having time for myself, I can't tell you how many times I would say, oh, my gosh, I'm so tired. I just need to take a nap. And it's like we're asleep is very important. That's not really your time. That doesn't bring you satisfaction, you know, so I missed out on really what was going to recharge my battery. And there were always those times where I would think, like, Oh, I wish I could do that. But I just don't have the time. And you know, so I think when you talk about at what cost, you know, my health also really took a turn I had gained, oh my gosh, a good 40-45 pounds, I was just very unhealthy. My mom was always telling me, she's like you're the queen of takeout. But it's because I was exerting my energy 100% on all these other things. And so when it came time to sit down for a family meal or cooking, which I enjoy, it just wasn't there. I wasn't getting that satisfaction. So my health took a huge turn for the worse, I will tell you, and it finally reached a point where I was like, Okay, we got to make a change. It's just not working.

Analiza: Yeah, I also connected that, honestly, Kim, I did the pantry thing as well. Like so satisfying to organize all of the different types of beans with each other and the types of you know, green beans and red beans. And I don't know, it was so proud to show my family and they're like, What are you doing?

Kim: Oh, yeah, I mean, my husband would fold towels in a certain way and put it in the laundry closet. And I was like, What are you doing? They have to be a certain way. You know, everything has to be in it perfectly lined up. And he's like, they're folded in there. And they're like, who cares? But it was just everything had to be so perfect, right? The coffee mugs had to be a certain way. And I will tell you that that is when you finally let go of that it is very rewarding, very refreshing.

Analiza: So that's the perfect segue into letting go. Because when you and I met, you know, we were talking about just the things we needed to do this program. And I remember that we were talking about this book report. And I mean, Kim, we got to share this example of how you were thinking about it before and then how we got to the other side. So tell us about what you were thinking about Kim Lee perfectionism 150% What was it looking like you're to approach this book report?

Kim: Yeah, well, let me first tell you kudos to you for coaching me for the last 12 weeks because when I came to you with that I wasn't in a very happy bollock state I remember I was in the Chick fil A parking lot and talking to you. And you're like, so what do you want to talk about today? I said, this program in this place is just stressing me out, you know, this book reports my this and that. And you really can't have the book report to and I'm like, can you believe I'm in the book, and it's so long and it's not on audio. And I mean, I was just spiraling. And I remember the assignment was three to six pages long. And I thought, oh, my gosh, I have to do a six page report, you know, MLA format all of this. And it was interesting after that conversation, when you asked me, you know, why do you have to give 150% of it? Why can't you just kind of like, do 90%. And the light bulb went off for me. You know, I was sitting there thinking to myself, I don't even know what 90% looks like, like, What do you mean, 90%, you're not listening, I have to read this book. And it was interesting, because when we got through that session, I realized, you know what, okay, I'm gonna read the book, I might not read every page, I may try to just grasp the gist of this book. They said, three to six pages, I don't have to do six pages, I could do three and be okay with that. But it felt very uncomfortable, I will be honest with you, that was the first time in years that I've kind of just thought, Alright, just do the minimal, still had to be quality, but it was going to be minimal. And I was very uncomfortable. I remember you and I hung up the phone, I went back to work was talking to a colleague of mine, and I was like, you know, I'm not going to read the book, because it's not gonna read, I'm gonna go on Goodreads, I'm gonna go through this, I'm gonna see what I can find out about it. And I'm gonna, you know, and she kind of looked really, but I did. And it was amazing. It was a great, refreshing way for me to realize that I didn't have to give 150%. That 90% was me reviewing the book. And then I hit the computer and did three pages. And I remember it got to three pages. And I was done. And I was okay with it. Looking back on it, it was quality work that I did. But it didn't stress me out. And I didn't let it consume me and didn't make myself crazy. Thinking about how I was going to do this. So yeah, I remember that. And that was kind of my pivotal moment that I thought, okay, I can do this. Not everything has to be the A plus.

Analiza: So can you know, I remember this conversation and I think Kim is gonna fight me if we're on the phone. I was like, she's not happy with what we're talking about. So, there was a thought shift there. You went from one thought to another thought. So can you share that thought shift for you?

Kim: I think my thought was, I'm overwhelmed. I'm exhausted. And I'm tired of always feeling this way. I mean, honestly my thought was, at some point, something's gonna have to give in my life, because I can't continue like this. And I started just kind of walking through. If I was able to just do three pages, if I was able to just kind of skim through the book, what would that allow me? What would that extra time allow me to do and I started realizing that time was I was in building, give it back to work in the back, which was my family. And I think that thought of this is really going to matter at the end of the day, is anybody really going to know that I read, you know, the whole book and did six full pages, what really mattered was just getting it done. Having quality and being able to refocus my time and my energy on the things that really matter to me. And I think that was so refreshing, because I didn't remember telling you, I'm going to take off a day of work and get this done. And thinking, really, I'm going to use my own personal leave to read this book and do a book report. So I think the thought was just get it done, and be able to enjoy time with your kids and your husband and go do things that you want to do. So I just really started trying to prioritize what I wanted, be able to reprioritize and start seeing other things out of my life, then stressing about things like this.

Analiza: I love that. And it's interesting, because we started with your teacher and just like how demoralizing she was that you can't do it. And you Kim Lee created a winning formula that you would give 150% to prove her wrong to prove everybody wrong. And that winning formula. You didn't have to use everything that you could give 90 or even 85 and maybe even a tiny bit less, and everything would be not just fine, but actually better. So I love that shift in thought. And I wondered, could you share more examples just about how you started approaching things differently? Maybe at work and maybe at home and what that opened up?

Kim: Yeah, I would say at work. It's been really nice. So I am a manager that oversees 100 and some employees and one of the aspects of my job that I love the most is the people I truly believe in . If you take care of the people, and you invest your time in them, you know, your team will be successful. And I really started realizing that my time was not being put into these people, and that I was focusing a lot of my, you know, 150% on the projects and the briefings and this and that, when I had the shift after the book report, I did start applying it to work at home. And I remember just a couple of weeks ago, there was a project that I was working on. And the old Kim would have probably spent weeks on end preparing for this presentation in this project, but I got it done in like two days, I remember I just shut my door and knocked it out. Because there were other things that were important to me, like, I realized that I had employees that I wanted to catch up with that I wanted to talk with that I wanted to help. And I can't do that. If I'm putting myself on this project for two and a half weeks now, are there some projects that are gonna, you know, have to maybe take my time to do? Absolutely. But this one wasn't that. And I think that that's where being able to decipher what really needs that two and a half week time, or what needs the two day time was important for me, because I got more satisfaction by going and talking to my employees and having conversations and helping them with their stuff. Because that's where I find true passion. And my job is working with the people not sitting in my office for two weeks with the door shut trying to, you know, put together a program plan that may or may not get approved, right. So that was huge at work, just yesterday I was doing something I'm like, okay, knock this out, you know, let's get back to what's really important. Again, in my profession, and in the way I lead, it's my people.

Analiza: I love how you constantly remind yourself about what's important, because when we do that it strips away the labeling of the red jar, the perfect font, and perfect bullet point and perfect positioning of the PowerPoint, you realize we realize that it's our people, it's our passion, it's our family. And it's a lot easier than, you know, let it go, which is hard to do. But so can you example, as a mom with that opened up for you there?

Kim: Yeah. So I will tell you that I used to spend, you know, so much time trying to just do everything for everyone in the house, right? I used to hashtag you know, I'm everybody's everything. And it's because I was always constantly doing for everyone. And you know, just in the last few weeks, I was like, you know, mom can't do it all. And I shouldn't do it all, we have to kind of reprioritize and look at what we're doing as a family. I needed to let go and kind of empower the kids to do some of the things on their own, which then freed up time for myself. And I think I shared it with you but I used to obsess over family vacations. I mean, I would research things until the nth degree. And about a week ago, I told my husband I said, Hey, I said there's this really cool cruise in December. It's four days out of Miami, let's do it. And he looked at me and like, Okay, well, he's asking me all these questions. And I was like, I don't know, I was like, we've never done it as a family. Let's just do it like this, it's just gonna be fun. And he kind of looked at me like, Alright, sounds good. And I'm going through and I realized, oh, everybody's got a valid passport except mom. So you know, okay, cool. I'm still booking this vacation. You know, I don't have a valid passport, I haven't gotten approved for leave all these various things. I'm like, Oh, I got to pull the kids out of school for three days, that'll be fine. Whereas the old Kim would have been like, Okay, I need to reach out to the school and see if these can be excused absences, right, I need to check that box I need to get approved for my passport kind of come back in time. All of those things that used to exhaust me, I was just going through the motion of we're going to do this, and we're going to go and have fun and it's all going to work out and that's over obsessing and checking of the boxes. Those are the things that used to take away my joy of planning a vacation with the family, right? Or when you would get to the vacation. It was you got to go do this. We got to do this. Everything was on a schedule, everything was organized. Those were the things that actually sold the joy from why I was doing a family vacation, which was being with my family. I mean, I remember years ago, we went to Disney World. And I had done laminated cards of where we were going and when we were going to do it when we were meeting with Disney princesses. I mean, it was ridiculous. Everybody had the laminated card and in case somebody got split up, they would know where to meet. I mean, you talk about exhaustion. And this time I'm like, Okay, we're going I'm going to book two excursions and we'll figure it out when we get there. But it's taken a lot of time for me to get to that point. And I will tell you that I know it's because I realize that what is important to me is my family. And I think a lot of us can say that my kids are important. My husband, these things are number one on my priority list. But what does that really mean at the end of the day, right? That you're going to spend 15 hours trying to do laminated cards. So when you get there, you know, a kid's gonna melt down anyways. So why put yourself through it. But I think for me, I realized that I was just doing so many things to try to make things so perfect that it was taking the joy away. So you know, when I look at my personal life now, I don't want to say I live a pretty structured personal life, because we're all busy, and we all have schedules. But I'm not allowing things to dictate the way it used to, you know, making sure that the meals were planned and containers with labels on it, and when to eat, I can't do it anymore. And it actually feels super refreshing.

Analiza: I love seeing your face because there's such joy and such relief, and just a sense of peace that we're all trying to get right. And it's not this, like, oh, I have labeled all the jars and made sure everything is scheduled and checked all the boxes, and you know, plan for Plan B, C, D, you know, like, even talking about that makes my shoulders rise. So I love this release. And Kim, look, you did this in, I don't know, 10 weeks, something crazy fast. So let's try to see if we can map out what the steps were. If we were to say to someone like here's kind of how to start to shift to release and let go. What would the first step be?

Kim: I think my first step was acknowledging that I was even doing it, right? Because it had just become such a way of life for me. So I think step one for me was to acknowledge that I was trying to do everything for everyone, and always giving them a plus. So that was the first step. And then number two, I think, for me personally, it was reprioritizing. But in a reality sense, right? I would always say family first, I would always say if my kids call me and I'm at work, I'll hang up the phone and go right to them. But I think it was realizing that I would say it but I wasn't walking the talk, right? I think really trying to re-emphasize myself, what is really important at the end of the day, when I look at myself in the mirror before I go to bed, what is it that I want to see? And so I think for me, that was kind of that second step was okay, re emphasizing to myself, what was important and figuring out a way that I was actually going to be able to walk the talk, and not just saying Yep, family first, and then putting it into play. Just trying it one time with that book report was what I needed. And I would encourage anyone to reach outside the comfort zone when it comes to that, right? Because I feel like if you can do it one time, and show yourself that there is greater joy beyond labeling containers in your pantry, and stressing about family vacations, if you can allow yourself to do it one and figure out where that joy is and where you're really getting it from. That was huge for me. And then, you know, the next point for me was doing it again. You know, okay, it worked for the certification class. Alright, well, nobody there other than you, and maybe a few other people know me, you know, so let's go take it into the work environment. And let me do something over there and see what happens with that. And then that worked. And then okay, let me try it in my personal life. So having that kind of thought, and being able to apply it in different parts of my life was huge in being able to see that I was still successful, I was still providing quality work, I'm still doing a good job, just not allowing myself to be consumed by it. And then I would say the last step for me is just repeating it. You know, I applied it in different areas. And now I repeat it. And it's funny because I think about my 10 year old son, when I kind of think about these steps, because I'll say to him when he gets home. Hey bud, how was school? Wash, rinse, repeat mom. And I'm like, what is that me? You know, and he says the same thing everyday, just wash, rinse, repeat. Just got to do what you got to do. And I now apply that to myself. Okay, wash, rinse, repeat. I mean, I can do this. So I think seeing that you can do it and apply it and just repeat it.

Analiza: I love it. So I'm going to just summarize really quickly, Kim. First acknowledging that there's an issue and deciding to act on it. Second, what are your priorities? What is most important? And I know we say family first. But what does that really mean in our life? So clarifying priorities. Third is taking it on the court and trying it. And even if it's scary, giving it a little go, a little book report, try it. Fourth is, look at other ways we can try it. It doesn't have to be just a book report, it can be work and personal. And then last is wash, rinse, and repeat, give it a go. And it'll start to snowball, but it really just takes baby steps. And you're such a great example. I love it. And let's see any other advice for moms trying to overcome perfectionism?

Kim: I think my biggest advice is just to give it a shot, just to try to not be perfect in every way, just take one piece of your day and say, You know what, I'm gonna kind of go ahead and give my best here and see what happens. Because I think once you do it, once you realize that not everything has to be perfect, and that you over exhaust yourself with trying to do that perfectionism, and you're missing out on the things that matter, right? You're missing out on what your son created on Minecraft on the computer, right? You're missing out on those little things that you think, Oh, I'll get to that. And I just think that at the end of the day, we can all be very successful. Business Women, moms, wives, you know, whatever it is, we can be very successful, but not burnt out to the point where we're not taking time for ourselves, or investing in what we really want. So my advice is, you know, be present and be in the moment. Because at the end of the day, like I said, look at yourself in the mirror, what moments did you get and what moments Did you miss? I think that's huge. And that really resonates with me now, you know, is trying to look and say, Okay, what did I get out of the day? And what did I possibly lose? Because I was trying to be perfect. That would be my biggest advice.

Analiza: Awesome. Thanks, Kim. All right, we're gonna end with some fun lightning round questions.

Kim: Okay,

Analiza: Chocolate or vanilla?

Kim: Chocolate.

Analiza: Cooking or takeout?

Kim: The old Kim takeout I actually enjoy cooking.

Analiza: Climb a mountain or jump from a plane?

Kim: Climb a mountain.

Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Kim: Yes.

Analiza: How would you rate your karaoke skills on a scale of 1 to 10 and 10 being Mariah Carey?

Kim: I'm going to go with a 5.

Analiza: Recent book you read?

Kim: Well, because I didn't read the full book for my book record.

Analiza: What's a favorite way to practice self care for you?

Kim: Oh, that's easy. Once a month, I go and get my nails and my toes done. Hands down once a month.

Analiza: What's a good professional development program you've done?

Kim: I would say one of that I did within my organization really working with leaders and figuring out your leadership style. And that was a five day class and it was fantastic. Really being able to learn about your inner self.

Analiza: What's your definition of a boss mama?

Kim: I would say balance. Being able to know your balance.

Analiza: What advice would you give your younger self?

Kim: To have fun and not stress about the small things and not always trying to be perfect.

Analiza: Nice. And where can we find you?

Kim: I have an Instagram account, cookwithkimlee and I'm on Facebook.

Analiza: And last question, do you have a final ask recommendation or any parting thoughts for our audience?

Kim: You know, I think I summed it up but I think my last parting thought really would be to be present and in the moment, keep your balance. Know what that balance is? And remind yourself in the evening. Okay, maybe I didn't do a great job today. Tomorrow is gonna be different. So don't beat yourself up. If the one day, you know you're not in balance, make it for the next day.

Analiza: Awesome. Thank you so much, Kim. This is great.

Kim: Thank you.

Analiza: Thank you so much for carving out time today to hear today's podcast. Three things before you go. First, if you found it helpful, please leave a five star review. Second, please share with someone else you can share the link and posts on Facebook and say check it out. Lastly, I want to thank you for being a listener and you can go to get a free self care bonus called juice your joy at Analizawolf.com/freebonus. Thank you so much.