Analiza: Hi, I'm Analiza Quiroz Wolf, proud Asian-American, mama of two kiddos. I went from being a burned out mama to being a Boss Mama, being a boss at work home, and play. I'm on a mission to help more women be Boss Mamas. If you want to thrive at work without sacrificing family or self care, you are in the right place. For detailed show notes, go to analizawolf.com/podcast and be sure to subscribe because I send out the best secrets I learn from my guests to my email subscribers. Now let's get into today's show.

Do you have a hunch that you’re missing out? That life could be better, more fulfilling?

Today we’re talking with social worker Annie Olsen-Meehan. Since she was a child, Annie enjoyed helping people, so after graduating from the University of Kansas, she followed a career in social work. On paper, the jobs she had were great. She worked at schools where the mission was to serve low-income students and their families. Annie had supportive bosses who offered her promotions, raises, flexibility to be a mom to her two kids. And yet, Annie would go home, be with her beautiful family, and something in her gut would tell her that there was something missing - that she wasn’t truly fulfilled.

One of the Boss Mama strategies we talk about in the program is to Trust Your Gut. This means checking in with your body and listening. It might sound woo but it’s a real therapeutic practice. Annie is a great example of this. As a therapist, this is what practices with her clients. Annie shares how she practiced this herself. She shares the steps she took to check in with her body and take action based on what her body was telling her. Annie created a plan, left her comfortable job, and started her own private practice. What this has opened up for her is a life of fulfillment – at work, home, and play.

Excited for you to meet this Boss Mama!

Hey, Annie, it's great to see you. I'm going to open up our conversation, Annie just talking about childhood dreams and thinking about when you're a kid Annie, What did you dream you'd be?

Annie: I grew up in a very small school, the school is kindergarten through 12th Grade all in one building. And so you know, as you move along, you know, it's very small, you have a lot of people that you're interacting with. But I had a school counselor that just really made a huge impact on me throughout that time. She was there the entire time from when I was in kindergarten up until I graduated. And you know, she just made a huge impact. And I realized that she was kind of what really focused me on a helping profession.

Analiza: So sweet. I can't imagine going to a school, the same school from K through 12. Like the kids you meet, when you're five, you're going to see, you know, through prom, that's pretty incredible. I mean, Annie, I went to like eight schools just to share my background about why I'm so amazed the same school K through 12, and the same kids in the same spot. So that's incredible. And plus, then you have this counselor who has seen you throughout as well. So do you remember a time with her that was particularly meaningful?

Annie: Yeah, I remember kind of in elementary school, I was going through a point, I think it was around fifth or sixth grade. And you know, I was having some girls that were kind of being bullies, not really nice to do and a lot of things that were really affecting me. And I remember, she really just was there, you know, I was able to go to her. And not only did she you know, sit and listen to me and support and just be there for me and with all of it. But she also took action, you know, she really made sure to sit down and bring in some of the girls and even I think put together like a group at one point to really have us figure out what was going on. Why were these things happening? And so, you know, that was just really huge, not just to have you know, her be there and support me and really listen, but also do something about it and really, you know, be able to help out with just a tough time.

Analiza: That's so nice. Because often I think as kids for me at least I didn't have a lot of people to talk with about bullying or mean girls. So it's great that you had her and that she not just listened, but she helped you problem solve what got you then to decide to be a social worker, how did you decide on that path?

Annie: We have a college day or career day that you can go to like your senior year and tour guide or the person that was there was like, Well, maybe you should check out the school social work. I was like, Well, this is what it is. This is what I am wanting to move into.

Analiza: It's great when you can actually find the thing and your heart just says this is it. So that's beautiful. So then you find yourself moving from your little town and why did you end up moving?

Annie: Something in my gut told me it was right to do and try this out and go to New York.

Analiza: Nice. So I'm fast forwarding and that's when you and I meet and we're starting the school and it's intense and awesome.

Annie: I felt very fortunate to be a part of it, right, because it was a newer school, you know, because it was so small, there's like all hands on deck was like bigger than, you know what I kind of expected going in, but was you know, and getting up at 5am and getting on the train and then having to switch three trains and get there and being gone. And yeah, getting home late. And so it was just, it was a lot, you know, there was a lot to have to take on.

Analiza: I mean, also in those hours, it wasn't about the hours back then I remember just being so purpose driven, that what we're doing each day really mattered. And I was really honored to be able to serve these amazing communities and kids. So it was one of the highlights of my life. We didn't talk back then about what you were feeling in your position as a social worker, because there were so many rules that we put in place for our beautiful kids.

Annie: There were so many aspects of the school and everything about it that were, you know, great. And I love the ideas around and ideology of helping, though it was really difficult, you know, many times being because I did sometimes feel like an outsider to social workers, you know, kind of where we come from, and like, what we're especially like our ethics and what we're taught, you know, as our education of like serving, you know, different needs, and being able to be flexible, really serving a multitude of layers of mental health needs. And that was not necessarily able to be implemented in the school at any point that I was there. And so that was really difficult, because the focus was really on, you know, education and serving, which I felt very grounded in and agreed and felt that was important, though, there was an aspect that always felt missing there. For me, you know, there's more to this than just having the education for our students to really be able to know kind of what their mental health needs were, what they needed, not just for themselves, but for their families and their communities.

Analiza: I hear that. I remember we're trying to pack so much in during a day, everything and double blocks, triple blocks of reading and math and trying to get kids caught up to where they needed to be. So I'm having a long day, right, we had an extended long day for the kids so that they can get in more. And yet mental health wasn't a place. We valued it, but we couldn't invest as much as we would have liked. Do you have an example Annie about a child that we can just better understand what you would have wanted to do versus what we were doing?

Annie: Yeah, absolutely. I think there's a particular student that comes to mind and I met with him and worked with him when he started in kindergarten and was there with him up until he's almost in fifth or sixth grade, and just had a lot of emotional needs, it came from a family that just didn't have a lot of support systems in place, a lot of support within the family or the community. And he really struggled just even getting into the school building. And so, there were just a lot of difficulties. And with him, what I remember, feeling and thinking was the constraints around all that scheduling, right, the day to day that blocks that like it, it felt constraining to like, figure out how to make that work. And so, I would feel very stuck and like, Okay, well, we'll just create, like a behavior plan. Because if there was not the ability to be flexible, with, like, you know, spending more time really working with the teachers even in how to understand and identify what was going on. And so that time constraint and everything else that was going on with the day to day, there just wasn't the ability to really focus on what he was, you know, needing for support, and he just continued to struggle, and that was really difficult.

Analiza: I hear that our kids are so deserving of more and how to pack it in is tough. So with that, then Annie, you're having this experience that you want more for our kids? And what did that mean then for you?

Annie: That meant something felt missing, you know, for me, it just didn't feel settled into what I was doing with with serving students and their needs and the families as the bigger picture I just wasn't really sure where my place was with really as a social worker and what I felt was an identity around social work you know, as who I was, and feeling a very unique dynamic of like I mission driven I really want the education I feel that but there's just this piece that I'm just not able to attain and get to with with helping for the students and so I felt very stuck you know, stuck with what I could do and what I was able to do to help and support.

Analiza: Is that feeling of stuck? What can you describe more than what that felt like?

Annie: Yeah, if I really tried to reflect I could feel it kind of still feel it resonate in my gut, like it was just this gut feeling inside my body of just like, this isn't enough you know, and you know, sometimes it could be hard on myself and be like, well, you need to be doing more you know, kind of that inner critic voice that can come in sometimes but just realizing like, gosh, I feel you know, like there's nothing right like the the structures and limitations within what is was you know, able to be rate of within the school and timing. So that felt stuck and felt like, you know, there wasn't the allowed time and ability to go into it. But also like, there was something more there, you know, there's something more of I know, I knew how to know, I guess is the word a sense of felt sense that like, there is more that I can be doing. But I didn't know how to do it.

Analiza: That feeling of being stuck, and then realizing it was in your gut? Is that like a meditative practice? What was the thing?

Annie: On the subway ride home, where I would just really kind of sit and reflect like, okay, so what is that? What is showing up for me? And so it wasn't a specific practice at that time, but more just a really checking in with like, what's going on? Right, right, what feels off? And what is it very, you know, is it a quick fix, like, I just need to do this thing? Or is it you know, more of a, like, mental shift of sitting into, like, is this where I'm supposed to be, you know, is this the place that's really like, going to be fulfilling for that for being able to settle into serving, you know, kids and families in the way that I wanted to be.

Analiza: So it's like checking in with your body and noticing? And then asking, what's that about? Is it something that I can handle now? Or is it something I just really need to lean into and listen more? Because it might not be, it might be telling me something that it could not be the wrong fit right now, the wrong fit? So what did you do? Did you take action? You mentioned you didn't have kids yet? What? What happened from there?

Annie: Yeah, I think, you know, I was there for about seven years, and didn't end up having my son, you know, at a certain point while I was still there, and that definitely made a big shift for me, you know, I kind of was already kind of like, Oh, what, and then, you know, had my son. And so that was, I think, for me, a really big kind of like, which forced me to look at myself in the mirror and be like, hey, really pay attention here. You know, you've been talking to yourself and checking in, but you haven't really leaned in, you just didn't kind of keep it on the backburner. But now is really like a focus of, oh, gosh, there's this little human being, you know, and I just wasn't spending any time you know, it wasn't able to spend time and be present in the way that I wanted to as a mom and leaving at five or even sometimes 4:30 In the morning, getting home at six or seven o'clock at night. And I was just like, Okay, I gotta do something. So I really had to lean into that uncomfortable of like, okay, what's really going on here? And what really do I need to focus in on and so it really was a moment for me of focusing into that uncomfort and fear of change, and why I was fearful of changing and checking in with that part to in my gut of like, what was keeping me from actually leaning in, you know, like, why was this scared to lean into changing something. And so when I did that, I was able to, like, really reflect and bring that back to, you know, my husband and figuring out like, what's going to be best for us as a family.

Analiza: So you notice this feeling when you have your son, you have this intense schedule, and that is what you have in the bank to say, I really need to dig deep, there is something that's not working here, I'm not sure what and you then talk to your husband, is that right? So then, is that time for change? Now, what happens from there?

Annie: Yeah, that was time for change. I mean, you know, lots of discussion and figuring out what that change looks like, you know, I knew that I was also missing being home, you know, home for me, Kansas back with my family and doing that. And so that was it, you know, it wasn't an immediate change, obviously, just because of, you know, my husband had a job. And, you know, we had to kind of also figure out what was going to work, right, you know, doing that change, but I knew that change was going to happen, for whatever it was, even if it wasn't a move, it was I needed to shift, I had to find something else that was going to be more fulfilling for all aspects. And so luckily, that was able to shift and get me to, you know, work and have an opportunity to move back to be closer to my family.

Analiza: So you make the shift, your husband's all for it. You're now back in your home state. And sounds like then you've got it all made, right, what happens there?

Annie: Yeah, I mean, it was great, I was able to come back and had an amazing opportunity to work at another school here and dive in. And really, the CEO was fantastic. I mean, she really let me build what I wanted to build within the social work department. And, you know, I was hired on as a senior social worker and really just given flexibility, in that position, everything that was like for me, like I wasn't able to kind of like work or move into at the previous places, like, please, you know, opened up and given me this open door to really be flexible with like, how I was able to serve the students and you know, how to build a whole mindfulness curriculum and adapt that and work with teachers. And so all these you know, excellent opportunities were just provided and supported and just put them in a credible way at this position at the school, which was, you know, similar position, but just totally different in the like, adaptability and flexibility with scheduling everything.

Analiza: So, you now have flexibility to run the program you want. You are now a senior social worker. So you have a team of people that can help you. You have flexibility to work from home. And imagine she really wants to do so your salary was you're happy with your salary. So now I mean don't you have all the things, aren't you happy now?

Annie: I did have all the things I did, right. Like it was all the things written down. That would be like, yeah, these are the external things that like, check all the boxes. And so yeah, you would think on paper, it was excellent. But it wasn't, you know, there was still just something that I was like that they're still not. It's not I'm not there, you know, like, what is it? And that was honestly a little confusing for me, you know, kind of like, well, I've gotten like, these are all the things that I was kind of like, ooh, externally, if I have this, that'll make it better. And it wasn't, it just still felt like that missing. There's something missing, and you know, continuing to be like cash, getting all these things and getting the things that you'll like, right and able to best serve, you know, and as far as on paper, and there's still just that place that I was like, I just feel something's not right, I'm just still not feeling like the click of this is, you know, whatever we want to call his balance, right? Like, there's no perfect balance, but it just didn't feel like I was still able to be fulfilled all around, you know, as a mom, as a wife and as a career person. And knowing there was still something there that just wasn't fitting.

Analiza: I mean, I've got to slow it down here because this idea of something's off something's not quite right. It's not. It's like a normal thing to feel that right. There's like more out there, there's a hunch, there's something we can't really put our finger on. Because when you look at the boxes, we've checked the boxes, like everything should be hunky dory. Now, we've done all the things that make us happy, but yet there's something that's missing. So how did you go from an inkling that that's how you're feeling to? Oh, actually, there is something here? Was there a moment where there was a breakdown? What happened?

Annie: You know, I don't didn't really have a breakdown or a specific moment, though, the students that I've been working with for high school, and I might be the first class of students, it was also, you know, still kind of a younger school. And for the first class of students were getting ready to graduate their senior year and go off. And these students, you know, had such a developed such a strong relationship with many of them over the course of the four years that I've been working with many of them, I just remember that sense of like, they're, especially in that last few months of them going off to graduation, and watching them graduate and walk across that stage of like, so proud of them and excited of like their future. And so many of them are going off to this next part of their life and the excitement, they were feeling the energy I feel for them, and then realizing, gosh, that's what's missing. Like, there's that energy and excitement of like, what they're going to do and what they're moving into and towards. And it was just kind of this, unsettling, but also a settling feeling of, Okay, that's it, I gotta do something different.

Analiza: Imagining the kids graduating. And it's such a huge moment to be with kids for so long. And to have a milestone like that to celebrate, and then connect to realize that the thing that they're excited about, you actually don't have. So you have this realization, and your body has been giving you that hunch for a while. So what do you do as a result of this aha moment?

Annie: Yeah. So I decided to take my own advice, make it simple. It's great advice to be able to say, what would I have said to what I say to some of these students? Or what would I say to a good friend, right? Like, can I listen to the advice I give to others. So that's what I did. So I really took some time to really sit down and reflect on a lot of different things. I would sit down and journal and just really write down you know, what was coming up for me paying attention to again, not just like, the thoughts, but also what was I noticing my body, right? Like that gut feeling? Where was it showing up and really pausing at each point, whether it was a physical point or a thought and really stopping to kind of imagine like, can I just listen compassion and curiosity just like I would with somebody, if they were sitting in my office or in my, you know, in a therapy room with me? Can I really just listen to what's showing up versus just letting it come and then getting caught up in it? Can I really create some space to listen to it? And then I did that, you know, and it wasn't necessarily easy. But as I did, I realized what was showing up was really had some, some really important things to show me of like, need to move into this and what was the fears and then checking in with the fears of, hey, you need to move into something where you can be more free, more flexible, and really getting to work with people in the way that you want to work with them.

Analiza: So I'm imagining this because if I were listening to you, and I'm thinking to myself, well, I have a similar hunch that something's off, that I'm not as excited as I could be, that maybe I'm not as fulfilled as I could be. And I get out of my journal, and I sit down, am I checking in with my body? Like, what does that look like? If I were your client, and you're trying to help me move through that and I'm like, I got my book. I got my pencil like, what am I like? What questions should I be asking myself and how do I check in with my body? What does that even mean? Like I'm hungry, like, what do you want to be like? What is this?

Annie: Yeah, no, that's a great thing. I would say to a client is like journaling can look however you want it, it doesn't have to look like what maybe we grew up doing and writing and journaling, sometimes it can be, it can be drawing, but it doesn't always have to be words. So it really is what a however you experience whatever it is, but what I'd say is, you know, is sit down, you know, have that journal and again, don't have an agenda of that it needs to look or have a certain thing to it, you know that it needs to be anything particular. But just start right sometimes that has to be with a little meditation of sorts like, Can I take a deep breath and really check in and notice what's happening. And notice can be physical sensations. So checking in, like, Oh, I'm noticing, you know, tightness in my chest, or I'm noticing who my jaw is tight. And so just drawing that or writing that, you know, just even going there. And then if you can check in with that, sit with that for a minute, what when I noticed that and I check in with that tightness in my chest, what thoughts come with that, and then maybe write that down or draw that right? Your thoughts might be like, Ooh, I'm anxious, and I'm nervous, or I'm scared, and I'm fearful. Okay, so then that's where it's the curiosity, right? And get curious about why that's telling me I'm scared, you know, can I really understand and try to listen to what it's scared of? Or what is anxious? Or what's it angry about? And just being able to really try to be that friend, right? That just friend that's going to listen and just really be there and hear what you have, say instead of just asking, right? Like, okay, so then again, with the journal, just writing that down, drawing a picture of whatever shows up. And then that way, you're just starting to give a little bit of separation, right, really paying attention to what is going on, you know, versus letting it all just kind of run, run, run, run, run, you know, get a comment on a cycle, I'm really slowing down and paying attention to what my entire system is trying to trying to tell me.

Analiza: It's so interesting that the way in which you're framing it, The answers lie within that your body is telling you to listen. And if we could only pause, and it sounded like you just committed because often we're running ourselves ragged, there's such busy schedules and things to do and stuff to buy and people to take care of that the commitment you made was to have space, sit. And without any pressure on yourself to deliver like a dissertation, just sit there and see what comes up. It's great because if you're connected to your body, there could be a lot of sensation. And I find for me, I'd be curious if any mine often comes with my stomach, especially fear, or anger will come from my chest, or I'll be nervous about something and I'll find my back cringe. So there's a lot there that my body is telling me without me even knowing that I'm thinking it right, it's just a body sensation that we're often so busy. And sometimes I think I choose not to want to lean into it because it's uncomfortable, right? Like, is it fun to be like, what's my stomach cringing about? Oh, I'm scared. Okay, let's dive into it. Because it's fun to look at fear. Like, that's not fun. So you leaned into that fear, and you encourage your clients to lean into it? Because there's insight there.

Annie: Yeah, exactly. There's so much insight there. And you know exactly what you said, it can be scary to lean into some of those, right? Like, it can be scary to root, you know, who do I really want to explore what the fears are and what the you know, that scared anxiety, you know, because we're that comes with, we don't want it to overwhelm us, because that's what is happening already. Right? Those feelings and emotions already are overwhelming. And the fear is if we turn into them that they're going to take up more. And so I get that, you know, it can be scary.

Analiza: So, it's interesting, because in many ways, there's comfort in the discomfort. So for example, you have this life for you. I mean, you checked all the boxes, it's pretty comfortable. And yet you're feeling like something's missing. So there's discomfort, but it's comfortable, right? Because at least you you know that you know what you know, and then there's my life's crazy, and I want it to change. But there's also comfort in knowing the craziness. So either way, there's like a comfort with whether your life is like padded or it's not padded, there's comfort and knowing and there is discomfort in exploring the unknown. Because you don't even know what you don't know. And to take a job is scary. It's super scary. So let's walk through that then any you realize through the soul searching and your therapist for yourself, which is really cool. And you see that there that you need to change that this isn't it? So what happens then, like it's not, did you take a leap? Did you talk to your partner like what happened when you had this aha moment?

Annie: Yeah, I definitely, you know, spoke with my husband, you know, about kind of where I was with that and exactly, you know, like, it was comfortable. It was easy. I was, you know, good and aggregate and all this but it was like that's just not fulfilling and so, you know, I didn't just jump into you know, making a shift right away. You know, I have a planner and me and so I was like I kind of want to think through a little bit of how this looks, but, you know, I was able to start making those changes, because that was what felt safe for me, it felt safe for me to step into taking the baby steps, but the baby steps I knew were what needed to get me there, it didn't, wouldn't have felt safe for my system to just jump right in and do it all. And so, you know, that was where I started, you know, I started to do those things, and really just continued to doing that checking in when I noticed the fear of the, you know, like, overbought, you know, that's not safe or that feels, you know, like, you don't know, you're jumping into an unknown and uncertainty, and checking in with what that fear was of it. And again, you know, having the great support of my husband and my family with it to definitely it was it was helpful, though, just continuing to do that check in you know, just constantly checking in not always journaling out always have the time to sit down and journal, but just okay, I've noticing that my chest because even now that I you know, in when I was doing that checking in still do just being aware, when the body sensation came up, oh, that's my anxious part. Right? It can help just being able to acknowledge and validate that it's there.

Analiza: The watcher, so you're talking with your husband, and you tell them that you need to shift? So did you know what you want to shift to, like, walk us through those steps to getting to where you are now?

Annie: Yeah, you know, I think I knew that I wanted to move into a kind of private practice. And just to have something where there was flexibility for me to stretch into, like really getting to figure out right, I wasn't 100% sure what I wanted to do as far as kind of focusing in with private practice, and being able to work with clients a little more freely. But I knew that that was what it was, I was like, I need just some more flexibility without constraints of systems and organizations and rules, you know, that were there that I get why they're there. But they were the things that were constraining me from really being able to, like, be flexible with, you know, the knowledge and experience and expertise that I gained over the years. And so I knew that that was the direction and so, you know, that was where I started was just like, that's where I want to go. And then building on that, what does that even mean to build a private practice, and who can I connect with, to learn of just the littles of starting out to moving to get that for me, but just really focusing in on like, that's what I needed. I knew, like I there was just a sense of grounding, and a sense of trusting my core self, that like, even though there was fear, and there was anxieties and nervous that like there was just this core knowing as I was developing this internal relationship, but like, yeah, you're still on the right path, kind of keep going, you know, and so that was like, really helpful to know, like, that was the direction.

Analiza: I love that, it's constantly checking in, and also realizing the anxiety and fear are, you hear it, you accept it, not, don't fight it, and trusting, still trusting, trusting and checking in? So you, it sounds like you made a plan, you figured out how to do it, you lean into your private practice? And how's it going? Now? Do you feel like what is your gut saying to you now, when you check in with it?

Annie: I love it, you know, I feel just, it's been totally in different place, it just feels so you know, grounding, but also like freeing, you know, because I'm just I really am, you know, able to be flexible, and really get to follow the direction of helping, you know, in a way that feels right, for me, that really feels right for like, how I approach the world, how I approach my life, I don't feel like there's a disconnect of like, how I am in my personal life, and then how I am and my job and like they really kind of not, you know, not always seamlessly, but pretty seamlessly go and ebb and flow. And so it's just a totally different, you know, feeling and groundedness in having the two, you know, kind of worlds be together and work together.

Analiza: If I were someone listening to this, and I said, Annie, you know, I feel like I have that hunch, too. And I feel it in my gut. It's kind of scary. What advice would you give me to pursue?

Annie: Yeah, I mean, a little is like, lean into that if you can, you know, lean into the discomfort, it doesn't mean that discomfort has to take over or that you have to make a decision right now. It's not you know, if you can go into it with trying to clear a mindset of like, I'm coming into checking it with my body with an agenda to change it, to get rid of it to fix it. Just more of a curiosity of okay, we'll check in with that hunch, you know, just listen to what is trying to tell you doesn't mean you have to make a decision tomorrow, you just need to listen to what's going on. And you know, write that down, or just pay attention to it and just take notice.

Analiza: So we're gonna end up with some lightning round questions. First question is chocolate or vanilla?

Annie: Vanilla.

Analiza: Cooking or takeout?

Annie: Takeout.

Analiza: Climb a mountain or jump from a plane?

Annie: Climb a mountain.

Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Annie: No.

Analiza: How would you rate your karaoke skills on a scale of one to 10 and 10 being Maria Carey?

Annie: A very strong part of me wants to say 10 but probably more like a 3.

Analiza: Recent book you've read?

Annie: What Alice forgot.

Analiza: What is your favorite way to practice self care?

Annie: Doing mindfulness and also just regular massages, being able to find space for myself.

Analiza: What's a good professional development you've done?

Annie: Internal family systems really been Incredible.

Analiza: What's your definition of a Boss Mama?

Annie: Love that confident, courageous, and just willing to shift perspective if you're feeling stuck.

Analiza: What advice would you give your younger self?

Annie: Don't be so hard on yourself. Like mistakes are okay? And honestly, if you listen, they're always going to teach you something.

Analiza: Where can we find you?

Annie: You can find me on LinkedIn. I also have a website and Facebook page, Mindful Therapy KC. would be easiest way on all of them are basically all under that name. So find me anywhere there.

Analiza: And last question, do you have a final ask recommendation or any parting thoughts with the audience?

Annie: Just befriend your fears, befriend those things that show up that make you feel stuck.

Analiza: Awesome. Thank you, Andy, so much for this conversation. I really appreciate it.

Annie: Thank you. I really appreciate it.

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