Analiza: Welcome to the Women of Color Rise Podcast. I'm Analiza Quiroz Wolf, proud Filipina American, mom of two, and former CEO of a nonprofit and Captain in the US Air Force. I'm on a mission to support having more diverse leaders at the table. We'll be talking with successful CEOs and C suite women leaders of color and learning about their leadership journeys. If you're a woman or woman of color who wants a seat at the table, you're in the right place. Now let's get into today's show.

Luvleen, and I'm so excited to be talking with you today. Quick background about Luvleen Sidhu. She is the Chair, CEO, and Founder of BM Technologies. And it's one of America's largest digital banking platforms. When this company listed on the New York Stock Exchange Luvleen was the youngest female founder and CEO to take a company public. How old were you Luvleen?

Luvleen: 34. Not that young, but definitely would still the youngest at the time.

Analiza: She had many awards, including being named 2022 LendIt Fintech’s Woman of the Year, the first ever two time winner in this award category. She was also one of Crain’s New York Business 2021 Notable Women on Wall Street. She has a BA from Harvard and an MBA from Wharton. So I'm very excited to be talking to you Luvleen. There's many interesting stories about your background. But let me pitch it over to you. Just give us an overview, starting with your upbringing, education, and really, how did you get to this big job that you have today?

Luvleen: Well, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. And I love what this is all about. And so really excited to be chatting with you. So my upbringing, I grew up in Redding, Pennsylvania, and I have really great memories of my childhood. I think it was a really sort of ideal, like, you could say idyllic childhood where my family is very close. It's an immigrant family. My parents both immigrated from India, we spent every summer back in India with my cousin. So very much sort of a cultural sort of upbringing where that was an important aspect of growing up from dance to language work ethic came with that. So I think I innately was always a hard worker, ended up being valedictorian of my class, had a dream of going to Harvard, I just knew it was like, that's where I want to go with a mix of hard work and a mix of luck. I made myself to Harvard and had a great time there. I graduated in 2008. That was when sort of the world sort of crashed in a way. And I was joining Lehman Brothers at the time, and we had six weeks of training. My first day on the job was the Lehman bankruptcy. So an interesting start to my career. I did spend two years there in their hedge fund to funds group on the investing side. And really, how did I get to where I am today? It was a combination of all the different experiences from that my father was actually a banker. And so I didn't know by osmosis, I guess, somewhere it was clicking and I guess dinner table discussion sort of kicked in at some point and never imagined to be a banker, but you know, spend time at Lehman, which became Neuberger Berman, you know, spent time another community bank called customers Bank, which ended up being our parent company, just investigating different sort of business models in digital banking, which piqued my interest, went to business school, and at Wharton took entrepreneurial classes that were my favorite. And it got that sort of entrepreneurial bug, worked in consulting for my summer, loved it, helped a large financial institution launch their own digital bank, and then graduated from the school. And I think it was at that time where it was like, either I can be a consultant and spend every Monday and Thursday in a plane and travel all the time. Or I can take up my entrepreneurial bug that I realized that I had at Wharton, take all the different experiences I had in financial services till that point, and came up with this idea of is there a new way to do banking, I think people hated banks in 2008, there was actually hatred, and sort of this lack of belief and the banking system that people cared about them. And there was affordability, and there's transparency and around it. And so I thought that there was this moment in time was so unique, and technology was catching up to do banking in a different way that wasn't branch based. And so all of those culminated together. And that's kind of the start of the idea of bank mobile, which has now become BM Technologies and as you said, a publicly traded FinTech company on the New York Stock Exchange.

Analiza: There's so many unique aspects to you and your identity. Luvleen and I get to see you in video and your dark hair your Indian complexion and to be a woman to be a person of color, to be young, to go beyond the ibanking and consulting traditional paths to be an entrepreneur, very unique. And so I want to just drill down about, was it your father? What about your upbringing, in addition to all these wonderful experiences really shaped this, I'm going to take a risk because it is a risky journey to be an entrepreneur, although you've obviously done so very well. But what do you think helped armor you up for the life of an entrepreneur?

Luvleen: I definitely felt like I took a risk. But I also felt like I took a calculated risk where I felt that I had built a foundation. So far, I had gone to Harvard, which I told you is my dream. I had gone to business school, I had spent time at a large bulge bracket investment bank, and had built credibility and pillars and also some experience. And I felt that if now when and it was really about, how much are you going to keep doing what you think you're supposed to do? Versus Do you have an itch for something else? And do you want to do something else? And I think I reached a point where it was, hey, I've done enough of what I feel like protects me if something goes wrong, like I have that stability, and let me try something new. And I was excited about it. And there comes a certain point where you're done enough where it's like, it feels okay, and you've done it, but it's not exciting. And there was a moment when that excitement came and I was like it's time for something different. And so, took the leap. And then here's where we are today.

Analiza: I appreciate that idea that I've done enough. I think as women, at least from me, speaking from experience, sometimes it feels like well, I've got to keep going, I've got to keep proving you've got to keep with the notches and to see in your 30s I've done enough, and I have enough of a safety to fall back on. Even if this doesn't work, but I'm gonna go and scratch that itch. It's really beautiful to hear. Tell me Luvleen, did you hear of any myths, either growing up as a young girl or even in your early career that you realize later, were not really true?

Luvleen: I think that I was lucky in this way. Like my dad was actually such a good role model. And I feel that I've realized that to have a strong father figure actually, as a woman is really impactful and beneficial. And he always would say to me, like if it's humanly possible, you can do it. Like just remember those words. And he built so much confidence in me growing up that he calls me bestest meaning like, I'm the best. And he always said the best of your version. So it wasn't in comparison. And so I think that the myths that I had, were actually all self inflicted, I was very lucky to have wonderful parents that instilled a lot of confidence. But I always felt my biggest enemy was myself. And I think whether it was perfectionism, whether it was desire to please like, I don't know, I haven't spent enough time sort of psychoanalyzing myself, but there was obviously my own sense of achievement and push and doubt. And I think I don't like to generalize a lot. But it's not healthy to do that. But I've heard and I have female friends where I think women more so do doubt themselves. And it's more, it's our own limitations that we put. And I've realized this through my own journey of life to that, like, we're so much more powerful than we think we are. And our beliefs often are the things that limit us the most. And so I struggle with it till this very day, like if I'm in a negative mode, where I don't know if that's possible, or I'm really struggling, I just take a moment. And I flip it to the positive version of that same statement, and actively do this so that I can open doors to new possibilities that maybe I can't see in the moment. So yeah, I sort of answer it in that way.

Analiza: We're more powerful than what we think. It's awesome that you said that. And I would love if you wouldn't mind Luvleen to hear about an example of how you flip it because you have a recent example, or any example at all, to bring that concept to life.

Luvleen: Yeah,we're a public company. So I'm not supposed to talk about this too much. But we are in the business of winning white label sort of business. So we do banking, as a service, we enable brands to be able to launch branded financial services. And we had a lot, we went through two RFPs processes for a potential client and we were in the 11th hour. And we lost both of them at the 11th hour. And so I was coming off from this sort of negative cycle of, well, we made it almost to the end and then something happened. And then this current client, we were made it to the 11th hour and something happened and my negative side was it's happening again, we're just all the negative thoughts that come we're going to lose this one again. Is this the pattern, I guess whatever. And then I actually sometimes to just stay abreast and to keep my positivity, whether that's my own self practice or listening. I follow different people and I turn on an Instagram story. That day, and she was like, just try this, put a desire out there and just place your order and then period. That's it. And I flipped it and I said, we are going to win X period. And I opened up again, it's like I believe in energetics. I guess I open up the space for this to be a possibility. And I already knew the hard work. It wasn't like some magic, right? Put in the hard work. But I felt at the 11th hour things were going haywire. Again, I decided we're going to get this period, no more negative no more how, why? What this, we're going to get it period. And we're going to figure out why and how, why it will happen, it will evolve. And we won it. And we haven't announced it officially yet. But we're in the term sheet. And we're signing, we're in the process of signing a contract. And I'm excited to hopefully be able to announce that soon.

Analiza: Congrats, Luvleen. That's awesome. I love that story too. Because you could have gone in a spiral. Oh, here we go again, boohoo, let me add more stress and mass, whatever it is, but instead you released that you placed your order. I love that please do your order and stop. There's no need to, you've put in the hard work. There's no need to put more in terms of stress and worry. Can you tell me Loveleen as being at the top of your company in the top game? What have you learned about what it really takes in that position? To be successful as you as a leader, a CEO? What have you learned about what it takes?

Luvleen: Well, I think that one thing, I actually read a Harvard Business School article the other day where your energy actually or they were talking more about what are the pillars of successful CEO and they're like, your positive energy and my energetics. And I'm talking about energy again, actually, it's so contagious. And I think that whatever energy I'm putting out, positive, negative, hopeful, optimistic, innovative, like it is contagious. And so whatever I choose to put out is what everyone else is going to catch. And even in a zoom virtual world, like maybe you even feel it more, because you're just sitting there, right there. And there's no sort of escaping or body language or that's all you have is right in front of you. And so I think one thing that I've learned is so important for me to firstly, protect my own energy, and make sure that I'm aligned and feeling good about my energy, sometimes even before a meeting, like I'll just like, close my eyes and sort of align with what is my intention for this meeting, what would be a win in this meeting, and make sure that my mind and focus is clear about that, so that I go in with the right energy. And so I'd say that's been really helpful to understand and to make sure that I'm mindful of and intentional about, I think having a strategy, people should know where we're going. So I have a longer term vision of where we're going. But each year, it's very clear, everyone in the company knows the top three to four things we're trying to achieve, what would make this year successful, it has to be super clear, no one's guessing everyone should be focused and aligned and humming to the same sort of beat and the same goal. So I'd say number two is just that clarity of what is a win this year, and over the next three years, and everyone should know that and be aligned and working towards that. And third is at least this type of a job, right? Where we're building we're creating, like, we're doing it because we want to have fun, we want to have impact, we should treat each other as people as friends and like engaged with each other care about each other, want to make people excited about what they're working on about their career, their life, their personal like its people. And so I think that the third is just this realization of how powerful we are working together and our asset is our people, but then remembering to be humanistic in that relationship with each other and making sure that people are enjoying the ride, having fun and feeling cared for in the process.

Analiza: I hear a lot from you about the energy you have for yourself and protecting your energy and then emanating positive energy in a way that people feel like they're having fun that their work matters. Can you talk about what if I were to say, Okay, that sounds great, Luvleen. I want to do that at my company, too. I want to do that for my team. How would you say, what's the playbook? You'd say? Here's a couple things I do that are effective, you say create a great strategy about setting intentions before meeting for yourself. But what would you say for running a company to help people feel like this is a place of fun and belonging and your work mattering?

Luvleen: Yeah, it's a combination of many different things. So one is like, as I said, taking care of myself, because I will have a ripple effect on everyone else. And number two is making sure that other leaders feel the same way and have the same ethos because I can't touch everyone like we have 300 people in our organization and I would love for every leader or manager to have that same ethos. And so making sure that they understand that so that they're showing up in the same way with their people also skipped meetings. So I don't just have meetings with my direct reports, but like, I go find out who's valuable, who's important, who's a rockstar who we care about. And I go set up like either a one off or a quarterly meeting. And I just ask them questions like, What are you good at? What do you enjoy? Like, what do you find challenging? Do you feel like you have, like, you feel productive during your day? What do you wish it would look like? Like asking these sorts of questions. And that's how you energize people. And that's how you get them excited. And I did this just the other day, I had a meeting. And he texted me at the end of the day, thank you so much for that call. This is why I love being here, like something like that. So I think that's an example of putting into practice. And that's not highly scalable. So you have to be able to allow others to do that too. And share those stories so that others are sort of empowered to carry that forward in their own sort of microcosm and groups. And then also, we've moved to a hybrid world. And I think people liked that flexibility, and enjoy it. But what we've decided to do is to have more strategic meetings for different business lines every four to six weeks. And so meeting in person and spending that time together, and then making sure that we do a team dinner or something fun to look forward to at the end. So you're combining high strategy, productive meetings with something fun with laughter with a good day overall. So it's just small thing.

Analiza: It sounds very intentional from the way that you carry yourself, and then how you show up and model for your team and then touch people in small ways, but can be very impactful, especially for rock stars, it means a lot for the CEO to be making time. As a CEO Luvleen, can you talk about surprises, like Okay, in this seat? I'm really surprised and not business really surprises, but more as a woman, a woman of color, you're running a tech company, a public company? Are there any surprises that you wish you had known before? Taking a big seat like that?

Luvleen: I'll tell you running a public company, I was super excited about it. I was like, Oh, yes, absolutely public company CEO, that would be an awesome sort of dream to attain. Now I kind of feel like it would be easier to be proud. I think that I love how we have quarterly calls because it kind of keeps you on your toes. And it helps you evaluate your business and always keep such a good pulse check on your business. But it is surprising how much it sort of takes away to like, you have to prepare every quarter for a call and you're running a business for the long term, then also the maturity at which to be a public company, the controls you have to have in place policies, processes, it becomes very expensive also to just have the things that you need in place to be a public company and coming from a scrappy startup sort of background and how we started like it's a bit different to sort of formalize change, mature, operationalize, and in some ways it feels bureaucratic, and sort of against what you want it to be. But then this is the norm of what a public company is expected to be and has to operate. And so there's a little bit of tension there. So it's not maybe the surprise, but maybe some of the not so exciting things and challenges we've had to deal with.

Analiza: It's honest, that there's all these not so sexy things behind the scenes that you're just like, I need to throw money and make sure I follow all the rules and be prepared for my meetings. What would you say Luvleen is has been one of the hardest challenges leading as you in these times, as a CEO?

Luvleen: Analiza I think that every day is weirdly like a challenge. And I've come to sort of try to look at challenges as opportunities. And my dad always said that to me growing up and I've really started to try to think of that. And it goes back to that flip it right, which is I'm dealing with something sort of challenging or negative, how can I flip it into the positive? What do I want it to look like instead and start focusing my attention and thought process and openness to that different alternative? Challenging from just to go public was super challenging. Like I felt like every day it was like, okay, raising the price, getting the right partner to we did it through a SPAC process, getting regulatory approval for the deal going on at roadshow, making sure we got momentum, making sure that we compensated the right people at the time. It was a liquidity event, that it's about winning the next RFP than it was in the same year, we also announced the acquisition of a bank and now we're going through the regulatory process, it was getting a handle on quarterly filings and learning about the earnings calls and continuing to run the business and try to grow it and so a lot happening and I got engaged in married. Also, this all happened and but in the last year public bank acquisition, engaged, married. Alot going on.

Analiza: So literally, let's talk about the personal world, running, starting a company going, public, continue to run it, grow it, how do you balance your work and then also spending time with your new husband and maybe having kids. How do you think about that?

Luvleen: I think that I've realized there's going to be pockets of time where there isn't that balance. And like, right now we're really rushing to get our 10k filing done and etc. And it's been an interesting process to say the least. And I didn't feel balanced for two to three weeks. And I was okay with that. But then it was okay, now that I have a pocket of time, how am I going to utilize this time better? How can I sort of rejuvenate, rest, spend quality time. I've felt it this year where Hey, I gotta find this balance. And I think it started with, what can I do in my rituals. So I start my day now with chanting, I've always done chanting, but I've took a break from it. It's just my meditative practice. It's a Buddhist chant that I do every single day. And I journal with it. And I just find it so cathartic and therapeutic that I forced myself to start it again, religiously, probably in the last 10 days. So it's really new again, because I realized I was off balance. So that helps me a lot. I put stuff on paper, I let it out. By the end of my journal entry, you could say - went from sort of stress and all the things that I'm juggling to what do I want it to look like? How can I make it look like that? And I'm going to be grateful and have a great day. Like somehow all my journal entries start, like more chaotic end up really positive. And I think it's just letting it all out and working through it. And so it's not a clear answer. Analiza, because I'm a work in progress. And the last few years have been really challenging. And somehow I did get married and I have the best, most supportive husband, we have so much fun together. And he helps balance me. It was also picking a partner that helped balance me. I think that on paper, maybe one thing looks perfect for me, but actually in reality and listening to my heart and listening to who I am. And what works well with me is the perfect partner for me. And so just having him has been really great as well.

Analiza: Okay, I have to ask you about the meditative practice. So actually spell it out for me if you wouldn't mind. Yeah. How long is it? What is the chant? How long do you chant? Is it open journal? I'm just curious about that, because it sounds very helpful to have as a daily practice.

Luvleen: Yeah, so it is Nam Myoho Renge Kyo Nam is NAM Myoho MYOHO, and rengay, R E N G E, kyo KYO, it's a Buddhist chant. And I've been doing this since 2014. It's been life changing. For me, the principle of it is it helps bring out your it's vibrational nature, it's sound in nature, it helps bring out your highest potential or your Buddha nature. And from that place, you are operating from your highest sort of wisdom, highest courage, and compassion. And then when you're aligned in that way, the actions you take lead to effects or causes that are much more in alignment with what you want to achieve and create and invite into your life. And there's oneness of self and oneness of environment. And when you really aligned with yourself in that way, your environment sort of flows into sort of in much more flow. So anyway, I chant I love the practice. And that's what it is - journaling is something separate from the chanting. It's something that I just love writing, I've always been able to express myself most clearly in writing. And I find it just so cathartic. So therapeutic, I don't have a prompt, I don't want a prompt. I want to spill whatever is on my heart, and with no judgment, and with just releasing it. And I find it very cathartic and therapeutic. And as I said somehow in the journaling, I know it's therapeutic, because starts maybe more chaotic or whatever I'm dealing with, they're struggling with their feeling. And it always ends up in a place of more peacefulness, calmness, groundedness solution, etc.

Analiza: Thanks for that. And then Luvleen, the partner piece, because it's a special thing to find someone that allows you to be you in this big job. And so I'm curious, you're an MBA person. So if there's like, here's how I thought about it, here's how I found that he was the right fit for me individually. Could you share a few thoughts about what that means?

Luvleen: Yeah. So during that day, I was in New York. And so I think the pool of dating was actually very large. And you could go out with many people and like, if you're in that age group, I would suggest that you like to go out on dates, get to know people, get to give yourself permission to experience different people so that you can kind of figure out what jives with you. And I went off a lot of like, Hey, did they go to Ivy League? Are they finance? Are they this or that? And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. And if you can find someone that matches you in that way, it's perfect. But then I was like, Okay, well, I've been doing this certain pattern of people for so long. And I don't feel that at peace that really that lightness. And so maybe try something else just like try something else and be excited about that and be open to that. And I did. He's He's five years younger than me. He's half Japanese half Brazilian, I mainly dated Indian guys prior to that. He's much more of a free spirit, but still very grounded, values oriented, very smart. etcetera. And I went with something that was different. And we still laugh about it. How did we choose each other? Like, it was just, yeah, in the matter? No, it was, I guess it was fate. And I struggled during that period, because again, coming from an Indian family, and it's very much like a certain thing of check the box, and he didn't check a lot of my family. And, and in some ways, like, I carry that checklist with me as well. And so it was such a process of actually learning about myself and choosing him. Because I learned who I truly am and what really resonates with me, and what really makes me happy.

Analiza: I'm happy for you.

Luvleen: Thank you.

Analiza: It's interesting, the flippant concept, even here, Luvleen that you've had this original idea. And it wasn't particularly fruitful. And you then said, Okay, how can I flip it and then manifest something different, even though it was a bit of a wild card? Not with the normal Indian rules, call them so it's so cool how you did that too. And work and in life, you're manifesting it. So there's, so just seeing your face and how happy you are? It's really beautiful.

Luvleen: Thank you.

Analiza: All right, with that Luvleen we're going to do lightning round questions. Ready?

Luvleen: Okay.

Analiza: Chocolate or vanilla.

Luvleen: Vanilla

Analiza: Cooking or takeout,

Luvleen: Takeout.

Analiza: Climb a mountain or jump from a plane?

Luvleen: Climb a mountain.

Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Luvleen: Yes.

Analiza: How would you rate your karaoke skills on a scale of one to 10. 10 being Mariah Carey?

Luvleen: Four

Analiza: What's a recent book you read?

Luvleen: I'm reading Happy Days by Gabrielle Bernstein. I love her Universe has your Back is my favorite book of hers. Hopefully this one's a close second.

Analiza: What's your favorite way to practice self care?

Luvleen: Chanting

Analiza: What's a good professional development you've done?

Luvleen: Tony Robbins masterclass.

Analiza: What's your definition of a boss mama?

Luvleen: Living true to herself.

Analiza: What advice would you give your younger self?

Luvleen: Have more fun

Analiza: And then where can we find you like LinkedIn? Or if you have any social media profiles?

Luvleen: Yeah, I'm on Twitter. I'm on LinkedIn. I'm on Instagram. My name is pretty unique. So you'll be able to find me. Yeah. And I have my own website. And I haven't written one lately. But I tried to write these letters called Luv Notes on different topics.

Analiza: Do you have a final ask recommendation or any parting thoughts for the audience?

Luvleen: Thank you for having me on. This was such a great discussion, because I think so many discussions are so actually work oriented. It's like, what's your business? What's your business model? And I think that that's great to have a venue where we're being more philosophical. we're analyzing life, the beliefs that we have, the struggles that we have, how do we overcome them? What does it take? How does their upbringing influence them? Like it's just so important, because I actually think that is the driving force of life and your work. And so I'm so grateful that we spend time analyzing this and thinking about this and working on this because it's the foundation of I think, extraordinary things that you can do achieve and experience in your life. So I thank you as well for putting together something like this.

Analiza: So well said thank you. Luvleen, appreciate you.

Luvleen: Thank you so much.

Analiza: Thank you so much for carving out time today to hear today's podcast. Three things before you go. First, if you found it helpful, please leave a five star review. Second, please share with someone else you can share the link and posts on Facebook and say check it out. Lastly, I want to thank you for being a listener and you can go to get a free self care bonus called Juice your Joy at analizawolf.com/free Bonus. Thank you so much.