Analiza: Welcome to the Women of Color Rise Podcast. I'm Analiza Quiroz Wolf, proud Filipina American, mom of two, and former CEO of a nonprofit and Captain in the US Air Force. I'm on a mission to support having more diverse leaders at the table. We'll be talking with successful CEOs and C suite women leaders of color and learning about their leadership journeys. If you're a woman or woman of color who wants a seat at the table, you're in the right place. Now let's get into today's show.

Nichol, I'm very excited to be with you today. A quick bio about Nichol. Nichol Ng is CEO and Managing Director of X Inc. Private Limited, a parent of a group of companies that has been in the food business since the 1930s. It was her passion for food as well as desire to deliver service with a heart that drove Nichol to take over the family business. Nichol oversees about 200 employees, more than 7000 products, over 4500 customers and an annual turnover of over Singaporean 88 million. In addition, about 10 years ago, Nichol co founded the Food Bank Singapore; it's a charity which redistributes excess foods to more than 300 nonprofits that support over 300,000 underprivileged. And for her work here, Nichol was named as one of the 10 honorees in the Peak Magazine's list 2016, Forbes Asia 2017 Heroes of Philanthropy, and Harper's Bazaar 2018 list. On the personal side, Nichol is happily married to her partner of 24 years. And she believes that the best legacy to leave her four kids is not money, but her values. So so happy Nichol, for you to be here. And that's just an amazing career that I am excited for you to share with us. Let's start with our first question, which is, tell us the story from upbringing to now. How did you get to where you are now?

Nichol: I think my entire life feels a little bit like a story. My grandfather came from China in 1934, to seek a better life after his first wife passed away. So what I always share is that our business has kind of been around even pre World War One, you know, and even before Singapore gained independence in 1965. For those of the people who know me, they will know me as a busybody. So I'm known as a busybody from when I was young because I love to raise my hands and legs. So in Cantonese, there's this phrase, which is raised hand, raised leg and the meaning basically is that I'll volunteer myself for everything possible. And that's been a part of me since young. And it was actually my maternal grandmother that spotted that talent of mine. And in fact, she left me a very good statement to live by. She said that it's a lot more of a blessing to be able to give than it is to take. And that has lived with me throughout my 40 odd years.

Analiza: That magic line of it's better to give than to receive, to be a servant leader. It seems like the through line, even as you've done the food business, it's much more than just profit, but actually about service and in a way that helps underprivileged youth under food in Singapore. So I'm curious as you think about your leadership now as CEO, how does that look with serving your people.

Nichol: So I do need to share that our family has been through plenty of ups and downs, including during 97, we were bankrupt. So during the Asian currency crisis, so my dad basically like lost nearly everything about the business because it grew too big, an empire in the early 90s, with a lot of trading businesses and all that as well. And I was there when the banks came to seize the house. And basically, thank God I was there with a piece of seizure paper, and my dad was in the office and my mom who was a housewife all her life, and I remember I was like 19 years old. And so that leaves a mark on you because you're still an undergrad, right? And you're given 30 minutes to pack your stuff, you know, and everything else is the banks. Although our house was like huge bungalow or something, it was my parents matrimonial home but that was the family house that I was born into, to be able to go through that and having come from the downs, you know, and seeing how my dad has survived the bankruptcy as well. In fact, I feel that it has prepared me to be the leader who I might need to become in today's uncertain world because as you see it right one of the things that I always feel that it's a great blessing for me is that my parents always brought me up. We were pampered, but we were never spoiled so we never lacked for a better word when the bad stuff hits the fan, right? I took it upon myself.

When I told my dad, I said, why don't we just downgrade to government housing or like, it's okay, you know, and as long as the family is intact, it's fine. And therefore, I always feel that it's a blessing now, because my dad had a very small food business that my grandfather left behind, while the whole entire empire collapsed. And I have the privilege of continuing my grandfather's business, although I've never met him. So he passed on before my parents got married. Therefore, coming back to when you mentioned about the food bank, and all that, I took it upon myself that if I was able to revive the business, to some kind of better state, you know, from the bankruptcy and the debts and everything else, I vowed that I will give back to society, and therefore, that's what we did. So in 2007, I basically set up the group that you see now, and I acquired the family business, so I cleaned up the debts, you know, helped my late father pay off a lot of his personal debts and everything else. And I think one thing is interesting, right? A lot of people always see that, oh, yeah, it's a family business is a hand me down, you know, you always see the better side of things. And therefore I make it a point to share my story as a form of encouragement maybe to other people, especially who are in family related businesses, no matter how big or small, because only if you can go through these tough times, will you see the better days that you have today. And now it's not a better day, I must say it's 2022, it's likely the toughest year that we have faced because I think in our generation, we've never seen such a time, you know, two years of pandemic and the war happening, the entire world is on the verge of collapse. As a business owner, I'm seriously very worried of what 2022 is going to bring. I'm getting very worried for mankind actually, yeah, not just my business, but in general.

Analiza: So let's talk there's a lot of really juicy things to share there, Nichol. And I want to get into this idea of risk. Because to see your dad and your family have this notice given to a 19 year old, and to work through that pain, and then promising that you'd give back. I mean, you have made that come true. And it's similar, though, perhaps harder now that this is happening through the world of a test. Because of this experience, I now have the skills I have this perspective that has allowed me to see the business through but also be prepared for this next wave of challenge.

Nichol: I told myself that I will not want my mom to go through another bankruptcy if there should be something happening to the business of that scale ever again. So it's like that sense of responsibility that I've put on my shoulders to say that because I've got employees that follow me for my dad's time, right. And my longest serving employee has been with me for 46 years, it was the family for 46 years, you know, and I wasn't even born yet. So it's like, I can't possibly let the team go through this again. So I told everybody that I'm going to make magic happen, so that we will survive 2022. And sometimes in days, when it gets very bleak, I think as a business leader, or even as the head of the household, sometimes even as a mom, right, you need to show that sense of positivity and be an inspiration to the people around you. Even when things are really difficult in a world that we live in right now. My sense is that the children, the employees, the team, people need a lot more inspirational leaders to look up to, you know, like, in the past, when we were growing up, there were people like Mother Teresa, for example, or someone that is like that. They're a wholesome figure. But I think the complicated world today, like I mean, we've got kids, we've got girls, you know that they do have similar role models, and therefore sometimes it's parents I feel it is so important that we become that role model to them. I'm just very happy that my children see me as that.

Analiza: When you reflect on childhood Nichol, any myths here that I learned either from grandma or my mom from my family society, and they ended up maybe not being true, and particularly about how to be successful how to become you know, your CEO, what myths did you learn as a kid?

Nichol: I think in Asian culture, especially in modern Asian culture, and especially for women in Singapore, and very developed cities, right, we carry on our shoulders, both the need to be perfect in every sense of the word. I mean, all of us excel in school, we're very lucky to have equal opportunities in the workplace, you know, in school, I mean, unlike the developing countries that might not have that equality, but at the same time we carry ourselves in the Asian way where we feel that we still have to be good as a mom, you know, and if you do get married, be a great wife and above it all look like you're so put together like you just picked up a bit like the way it is, and I guess it's along the way that I learned that you don't have exactly to be perfect or put together and it's okay to be vulnerable sometimes. And it's through your vulnerability that shows people the imperfection that you display shows the strength in you as well. And since you talk about childhood, right, I often share something as well that I suffered from eating disorder from a very young age. And since I was five or six, because I'm a much bigger girl than my peers are much taller, I've got big bones and things like that my relatives used to compare like, every Chinese New Year, they will say, hey, you know, like, you seem to put on weight or like you're stealing your brother's food, you know, innocent comments, but there's always the streak there. But I've learned from that, I will not want to say that to any children, or anybody for that matter, because I suffered from bulimia and signs of anorexia as well for a good 20 something years since I was 11. I was abusing laxatives and slimming pills, trying to nearly starve myself to death, the longest duration without food is five days. So I can join the army and all kinds of abuse nearly left me with a very big reason that I can't get pregnant easily. Because you know, when you're growing up, and puberty, it does things to you when your hormones are all over the place. So 20 odd years. And again, there was a stigma back then in I think the early 2000s, healthful eating disorder wasn't as prevailing in Asia, yet, maybe in the States, a lot more centers were coming up. But the moment I found my doctor, and again, this was the busy body in me, I realized that there wasn't a support group system in Singapore, there were no facilities, there's no support group. So I started the support group for eating disorders. And I became like the poster girl in the media to talk about it. Because they don't view that as an Asian problem. They always felt that it was a Western problem. So when I spoke about it, I said that it's not about the figure, it's not about the size, it's not about the way it's a form of addiction, it's just that we use food as that form of addiction to control our lives. And that comes back to the point that I was making just now that the myth is that we all need to be perfect. So a lot of the Asian girls, we know we study harder, we need to get all A's good grades and stuff like that, that sense of need to be perfect has caused the eating disorder. So sometimes when I have opportunities till today, I always share with everybody around me because if you're a parent, and if you're listening in and you spot that your daughter or your son is suffering from something like that, which is a mental illness, you should seek help as early as possible. So now whenever I have the opportunity, I'll tell everybody, like, please get out of it as soon as possible. Because if not, this mental illness does not exactly leave you. So I will say that I'm 10% still in the woods sometimes.

Analiza: Thank you so much for sharing. I'd also love to push on the turning point, because often you're like, Wow, you were in the media, you told stories, and now you're sharing now. But how did you go from here's this sense of perfection, then having the eating disorder, and then going to the doctor, what was the turning point that got you to say, I'm gonna get help, it's time to change my mindset.

Nichol: I remember clearly the day when I woke up and I went to the toilet, and I put blood, like the whole toilet bowl was full of blood. And because I was abusing pills, it is like 20-30 pills in a day. So I knew for more than 10-12 years, right what I've been doing to my own system, so I was so afraid about my intestines. And I told my colleagues that I was working in my first job, which is not in the company, I was working in a media company. And I told my colleagues because I was very open about it, they realized I was eating funny. I said I need help, because I couldn't find the right doctor to cure me. Right. I was so thankful that one of my colleagues recommended me to see her GP who subsequently recommended me to the Institute of Mental Health, which was where the center was. And I waited two months to see that specialist so that one of the turning points was that really the physical impact when you start seeing bleeding and really bad changes to yourself, you start to wake up a little bit, because my greatest wish was to be a mom, I said, if the eating disorder robs me of that, right, like, I wouldn't be so upset. So I said, I gotta get well for myself so that I can achieve my dream. So that was one and the second turning point, which I remember very clearly was when I attended the first support group. And there was this young girl beside me like the reasons you know that you get into this eating disorder. And she said, Oh, because I'm very lonely. I look at the cupcake, I talk to it, and I eat it. It is like, I am so lucky because I'm so loved. I'm surrounded by my parents who love me. I've got great friends. You know, I've been with my hubby for so long, and the support network is so strong. So what has it not going for me to push me to recover? I need to get well. Because I think with my mental ability, I'm able to maybe encourage others to get well as well.

Analiza: And hearing also, there's a sense of community as here's my people that I can be really open with and ask for help. Sometimes I find that growing up for myself. The narrative I had was be strong. You don't need help, and that you actually asked for help and we're so vulnerable to share it. This is what's going on just a power move. And I often think to maybe that's a Chinese culture or Singaporean culture piece, I'm not sure that's really a Filipino culture piece, you know, we're more individualistic or maybe even Western. That's beautiful. And then the second is that there's another side to it, you had stakes in the ground that you weren't willing to risk. And that clarity allowed you to do the work, because you're not going to treat this as Okay, Nichol, let me give you an eating plan. Because that's how I approached it. When I was figuring out food, write down what you ate, portion control, take a pause, and you're like, No, it's a mental health issue. Let's treat it as such. And I'm not sure we talked about it that way. So it's really powerful. So Nichol, tell me as a busy body did you have in your dreams, besides being a mother, also wanting to be CEO? Did you have that as a young kid?

Nichol: No. So because of the crisis that we went through, there was never a succession plan. And neither were there any plans at all for any third generation to come back to help to modernize the business, but I've always wanted to own my own business. And I remember when I was 17, when I was in college, I still have that with me, I actually designed a fashion cafe where you will sell clothes in the center of the cafe, and then everybody was having coffee around there. And then the other dream that I have was to have a cooking school for juniors for little kids, because I feel that nowadays, you know, the children are so wired up, they don't have that finishing school, I still have the wish of starting a finishing school, where we can put the boys and the girls to learn to be self independent from a very young age to learn how to sew, to learn how to cook, basically just sustain themselves, instead of being like self 10 foot, you know, that kind of thing.

Analiza: I have no doubt, Nichol, if you want to do it, it'll happen. I did want to mention as someone who had been in education for so long that we've removed things like I believe they called it home economics or some sort of a home type of class, where they would practice. I've heard things like what it's like to balance a checkbook. What does parenting look like? Here's a fake baby, let's try to burp it. So we're more clear on what parenting means. Let's try to click something. And I'm not sure where we get that education. I think, hopefully, your parents will teach you. But as we stripped down education in schools, to math and reading, we also and even take away music and earth. You know, there's skills where we get them?

Nichol: I want to share something with you about education. So in fact, I just came back from a trip, I was invited to have an audience with the Dalai Lama. Yeah, it was a last minute trip. And I just arrived this morning, like, exactly 12 hours ago. And I just got invited, you know, he just recently started receiving people again, the point about education that he made was quite impactful. One thing that's lacking in the system right now, the education system is a module on empathy, and compassion, which shouldn't be the basis of every one's education. So if every one of us just is a little bit kinder, a lot of the problems that we see today will not exist. So it's a very simple thought. And that really got me thinking, because in school, you don't have a module on that. You have social studies, you study about history, you know, and all but you don't have a module on empathy and compassion. And it was such a powerful, simple statement, such as simplistic philosophy. So therefore, I feel that our education system globally might need to change. In fact, I mean, with all the riots and chaos that's happening all around the world, actually, the world what we really need now is just some kind of kindness.

Analiza: I'm floored because you just saw the Dalai Lama and learned about this idea of empathy. And really, we're talking of like, how can we be love, show love and also love ourselves? Because I find that the tension, I strive and you know, have eating issues and constantly trying to chase things, and then maybe not be nice to people. And at the root of it, do I love me?

Nichol: Are you kind to yourself, right?

Analiza: Yeah, exactly. So because you saw the Dalai Lama or anything else that you want to share from that amazing visit.

Nichol: He is a very kiddish 87 year old man. And he shared his views about having seen humankind as a single race stripped off of all religion of all races of nationalities, even with just one 7 billion humankind, right, like the world. So he was just saying if we can all see ourselves as one because he said literally he will strip everybody down to the naked bodies, right? I mean, with the exception of color or skin tone, everybody's the same. And then the second thing is there were children who also visited him at that meeting, and one of them was a seven year old girl, and the way he communicated with them. He mentioned something very powerful and as a parent that brought me to tears, he said, We're all making the world a better place now, not for me, but for the children. And they are the constant inspiration of why we should make this world a better place. So what can we do, you know, collectively as parents, as business owners, as thought leaders, right to make this a better world for the younger generation.

Analiza: It's interesting how with all the complicated philosophies and mindfulness techniques and different practices that it could come down to, whether we can be kid like and simplify things, too. Are we kind to each other? And can we leave this world? I mean, even let's do no harm of the old boys, can we not make it worse? That would be great. There are maybe times in your career when you were trying to figure out what it would really take to be successful? At the top? Are there any particular stories or moments when you're like, wow, I didn't realize that I needed to be this person, or I needed to learn this lesson,

Nichol: I constantly remind myself that our company is very small in the whole scheme of things, we are still an SME, but the different innovations and improvements that we can make for our company might also be applicable to the industry. So again, this is a busybody thing. Because I said, if I'm making so much effort to improve myself, is there anything that I can do to improve the ecosystem that I'm in? So actually, a lot of thought came, I think, now about 10 years ago, because, you know, every day were so tired, chasing for the dollar, making all the improvements, you know, setting up the computers and all that kind of thing, I suddenly had a thought, like, what if whatever that I am doing can also have ripple effect on the rest of my peers, you know, and it's a very unselfish thing, the more we share, the more they can improve, and the more the industry improves. So now every project that I'm doing is trying to improve whether the restaurants can be more profitable, you know, do they have a better way of using robotics to maybe make their lattes? So how can I improve the world and the ecosystem? So at the end of the day, yes, I will make more money, hopefully, by providing all the services. But the ultimate goal is that, how can I help my clients, my business partners, my employees, for example, improve themselves. So our company, and I drew inspiration from my grandfather, actually, is that our value statement is very clear, is that we put a thought into everything that you do. And the thought comes from a Chinese word, which is made up of two Chinese characters, the top one means field, and the bottom word means heart. So it's like you grow whatever's in your heart. And whatever makes sense to you, you need to put a thought into everything, every person that you touch. And if you start doing that, you see things from a different lens altogether. Yeah, like, why is my colleague, you know, acting like that today, right, but you thought maybe she has had a bad day, you know, a fight with the husband or whatever else. And I've lived with that philosophy, the moment that I reinvented my family business, or to modernize it. So I decided to keep the Chineseness or the Asian roots of it all, although on the surface, we look like we're an ultra modern company. But the root of it all is that we're just humans, and I want to keep that cultural aspect. Yeah, the human touch,

Analiza: this human touch, being able to pause and think, what's another perspective? How can they be human so that there's a mal intention. The theme, I hear one of the themes, Nichol, through line through your story is just this idea of collectively wanting to serve others wanting to make things better for the children, even competitors. And as an American, Nichol, I don't hear people talk like that. And some are curious about me because I'm like, helping a person who's competing against me, right? Why would I do that? We just don't think that way. So I'm curious, is that a family value? Is that a cultural value? Is it a Singaporean value? Where did you learn that?

Nichol 24:02 I feel that it was born out of frustration. So I'll just give you a very quick example, like my company embraced technology very early on. So we wanted to go like digital e invoicing, and you know, all that kind of thing, or asking the clients can you please don't call me to place orders, but use my online platform and things like that. But then I realized that my peers were very slow to adapt to technology, and therefore the customers who say, hey, you know, your competitor doesn't need me to do this, or I login or place your orders and things like that. That's when I realized that if I don't get people around me to improve, they become stumbling blocks to my own improvement. And a lot of times, even my clients because they are so comfortable, pre COVID With all the sales and revenue that they have, they will be very slow to change. So in fact, I was secretly happy that COVID actually happened. Because it was genuinely a wake up call and the entire world was in an overdrive, especially in Singapore. We're always like gunning for the dollar. And I consistently asked, ``Why are we chasing for higher GDP? Everything higher, like bigger dollars and everything? Why can't we, even as a company, take a moment to pause? Maybe it's time to just pause, reflect and see what's out there? Are we doing the right things? are we chasing the dollar for the right reason as well. And I feel that the pandemic gave the industry the opportunity to pause, reflect, and stop being so arrogant because goodies are not here all the time. And the other thing back to the human touch really is we have evolved with technology too much. I feel a lot of the services now it's either talking to a chatbot. Like, even if I call someone for help, right? I don't know if I'm talking to a real person on the hotline, or is that person a chatbot? Right. And I think in the service industry for hospitality, you can't do without the human touch. So the biggest challenge that I face right now is how do I humanize technology to continuously be engaged with my clients? Because it's impossible, I get maybe a Filipino chef or a Chinese chef, for example, to not call me and ask me for something right? Because they still want to hear that human voice. They want to banter sometimes complain a little bit, you know, but with technology, there's no room. So right now you order from Amazon, what do they do, they just send you an E voucher, sorry, Miss Annalisa. For the delay, maybe I'll give you a discount on your next order. But there is no human touch anymore. I want to retain that human touch at the heart of it all.

Analiza: It's interesting that it's like our grandparents' days where everything was done. So human, and then now it's the robots. And where can we come back to ourselves because you can be mean as a robot and to another robot, but it's harder when you see the human messiness. And can we pause and see, there's another option. So with that, Nichol, I want to pivot to the idea of personal life, you as a Boss Mama, and I'm curious, as you have so many responsibilities as a busy mom, as a CEO, as all of these leadership roles you've taken outside of the company, how are you able to thrive as all of these roles and to be a person who gives? How are you able to make it all work?

Nichol: I genuinely sleep four hours and I eat one meal. So that saves up some time. The second thing that I do is that I still use an old school checklist everyday like a to do list and in my inbox is always clear. At the end of the day, and anything that's left behind it means that it's my to do for tomorrow. So I thrive in the striking out as I get homework style, like okay, I've completed that and has done me well because and what I do is I have a checklist for my husband, I have a checklist for my kid number one, number two, number three, number four, my mom, you know, my household each of my subsidiaries. So that's how I managed to package it. But I think the other thing is how I've managed to cope with it is that sometimes I'm just being very honest Analiza, sometimes I'm very honest about maybe how my child is doing, I feel that when you need to, like when I see my friends say oh, you know, my kid is scoring this grades, you know, and how it is, you know, and I choose to be very truthful to say that, hey, my child suffers from ADHD, for example, or like a central auditory processing issue, for example. And the more honest I am, I feel that I carry less weight in my mind, because I don't have to reimagine myself like Oh, today I'm talking to Analiza. And oh, the last time I spoke to her, I was like this. So I think sometimes by being very candid and honest with everybody around you, both the good and the bad, I don't have to pretend as much. And I don't have to put on that facade as much. And therefore it helps me to juggle everything. Because everybody knows that if I talk to Nichol, she gives it as it is, you know, I don't sugarcoat things, it gets things done, sometimes still being nice, but it's just that directness has helped me to juggle a lot of the issues as well.

And the other thing, being a Boss Mama, right, I realized that from the moment that I can't give up my career, right? Because I have that responsibility and to continue the business and things like that. I have to trust the people around me and the support network they have. So if my mom was there, my mom was relatively young, she's in the first half of the 60s, right. So if I trust her to help me watch over the kids, if my husband is not around, then I will need to kind of have tight control over how I want my child to be fed. You know, and as a mom, sometimes especially first time moms, you would imagine that the bathtub needs to be like that the water needs to be zero. There's a lot of things right and every mom is different. So I told myself, I say I got to cut my mom some slack so that I cut myself some slack because she has genuine love for the kid, right? That's for sure. And I'm very sure I can trust her to bring the kid up to the best of her ability when I'm not around. The same thing in Singapore was so lucky, right? We have very affordable domestic help. And that's something that I never take for granted. But yet again, the magic is that you need to trust that help. And so if you hire the right person, and you trust her and You just give her the rules, right? That little box that she can go around, but everything else, you just trust her to do her best. And sometimes by trusting them creates that confidence between each other that you know, mom or whatever, you know, trust me to do the best. And that expectation will actually make them perform even better, in all senses of the word. But that was something that I live by for the last 10 years since I became a mom,

Analiza: I hear a clear, I know who I am. And I'm the same person through all of the different roles I play, I hear a release perfectionism from myself, and also release perfectionism on others, I'm going to be clear on what the boxes the rules are. But the rest, I am not going to be crazy. And I'm going to release control and trust. And the other piece I heard was, there's a sense of, here's my system, here's my list, I cross them off, day by day, I'm in the present. And I try not to spend a ton of time worrying so much about the future, just do what I can today, clear my list, and then focus on the next thing. In addition, Nichol, because I have some other advice you give to a mom leader about how to be a boss at work, family and life.

Nichol: I think it's important sometimes to trust your gut feeling. You know, women have a very strong sixth sense, especially moms, we have that sometimes we have a notion about certain things, we feel it in ourselves, especially for women, I feel and should trust that gut feeling. Sometimes we doubt ourselves a little bit too much, because I feel that it is the gut that you may have, or the extra EQ that you may have. So when I interview someone and I say that the person coming in is kind of carrying some baggage, I will just kind of probe a little bit. And I feel that that has played to my advantage because I brought people closer to me, because I live with my gut feeling that I think she's having a bad day, I think this guy's like this. And so sometimes just learn to trust that instinct that you may have, you might not be 100% right all the time. But that's really one thing that women may not live with enough. And the other thing which is important is to live every day with passion. And if you enjoy and you make that day enjoyable for yourself and pick the little moments, right that you can indulge in. Like for me, it's just that simple black cup of espresso in the morning, it just really lifts my mood or that crazy drive like 630 I send my kids to school because we start school really early in Singapore 630 drive my kids up by 545 in the morning, they are in schools, who starts at 725. So their school drive blasting the music and during the day that really makes my day as well. But just choose the moments that you should indulge yourself in Analiza: So much intentionality Nichol in your life from up through your systems for your family and your work. And it's great to see how deliberate it is, and yet also create space. So with that, let's move to lightning round questions.

Chocolate or vanilla.

Nichol: Chocolate.

Analiza: Cooking or takeout

Nichol: Cooking

Analiza: Climb a mountain or jump from a plane?

Nichol: Climb a mountain.

Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Nichol: Yes, all the time.

Analiza: How would you rate your karaoke skills on a scale of one to 10. 10 being Mariah Carey?

Nichol: 9.5. I've won 10 times before.

Analiza: Oh, wow. Recent book you read?

Nichol: CEO excellence. Yeah.

Analiza: What's your favorite way to practice self care?

Nichol: To gain an extra minute in the shower

Analiza: What’s a really good professional development that you've done?

Nichol: An etiquette class. So this I took very much earlier on even in my school days, my school actually provided for it. So they taught us how to wear heels. What's your body shape? What's your color, it was free to us. And so basically to embrace the femininity that you are from young and learn how to love yourself?

Analiza: What's your definition of a Boss Mama?

Nichol: Boss Mama is someone who knows her mind. And she speaks it as it is. But yet with tender loving care.

Analiza: What advice would you give your younger self?

Nichol: Don't beat yourself up so much.

Analiza: And where can we find you like LinkedIn or anywhere else like that?

Nichol: Yep. On LinkedIn.

Analiza: And do you have a final ask recommendation or any parting thoughts for the audience?

Nichol: Food has played a very big part in my life. And my biggest reflection over the last two years, especially when I'm serving the underprivileged, I really realized that food is also a nourishment for the soul, and wellbeing, the mental well being like if you eat a brownie, for example, it makes you happy, and therefore at the food bank or any part of my life. And so if any one of you listening in, I'll also say eat a cookie right or eat something that makes you happy, right, like indulge in that little piece of snack that you may like and that changes your day completely. At least that happens for me.

Analiza: Thank you so much for carving out time today to hear today's podcast. Three things before you go. First, if you found it helpful, please leave a five star review. Second, please share with someone else you can share the link and posts on Facebook and say check it out. Lastly, I want to thank you for being a listener and you can go to get a free self care bonus called Juice your Joy at analizawolf.com/freebonus. Thank you so much.