Analiza: Welcome to the Women of Color Rise Podcast. I'm Analiza Quiroz Wolf, proud Filipina American, mom of two, and former CEO of a nonprofit and Captain in the US Air Force. I'm on a mission to support having more diverse leaders at the table. We'll be talking with successful CEOs and C suite women leaders of color and learning about their leadership journeys. If you're a woman or woman of color who wants a seat at the table, you're in the right place. Now let's get into today's show.

I'm really excited to be talking with Mala Batra today. Mala is the CEO of Aspire Public Schools, which operates 36 TK through 12 public charter schools across California. They serve over 15,000 scholars 80% of whom qualify for free and reduced launch and 95% of whom are students of color. Before Aspire, Mala worked for Levi Strauss, GAP, and Deloitte. So a lot of business before moving to education. She has a Bachelor's from the University of California, Berkeley, and an MBA from Harvard Business School. So excited for you to be here. Mala thanks for talking with us,

Mala: Thanks Analiza, I'm excited to be here too. Thanks for having me.

Analiza: So Mala, We're going to start with the overview. And just give us an overview of your upbringing. And just walk us through your career. But really, how did you get to the position you are today?

Mala: Well, I grew up in the Bay Area, raised by my parents who immigrated from India, where I was born. And my dad, you know, really did that to attend college and get his PhD here in the States. And so, you know, I grew up in a pretty upper middle class, suburban environment, tons of opportunity and safety, physical, psychological, and lots of love in our household. I was super fortunate, me and my older sister. And I think it was really when I started to go to college and think about colleges that I asked a lot of questions of my dad in particular, of sort of his journey. And it really was sort of a turning point for me, and having way more awareness and recognition of how much it took from my parents and the sacrifices they made to actually create the type of childhood and opportunities that me and my sister had. When I was at Berkeley, but was working with a nonprofit, all four years of college were really focused on bringing young people onto college campuses, and just having them experience what that was like at a really young age. And it was just work that I reflected on, like I enjoyed the most out of everything I did in college. And then after college, I went to Deloitte and started doing consulting work, mostly because people said, you'll get exposed to a lot of different things. And you don't really have to decide right away what you're doing and ended up working on a really long project with Levi's, and so sort of got bit by the retail bug, but then I think just experienced a very stable life, going to the same place every day having the same work colleagues every day. That wasn't something I had experienced in consulting so far. Once I got used to that, I'm a person that likes stability and certainty and like routines, it was very appealing to me. So I ended up taking a job with Levi's and staying there for a while and then moving over to GAP and my dad was really, really intent on me going back to business school. So when I went to business school, it was really with the intent of switching careers and finding a path in education. And I was really both surprised and fortunate that at HBS, I met a lot of people who were coming from education. So I spent my summer at Oakland Unified School District to business school through the Broad Residency Program and got some exposure to what it meant to work in sort of the heart of public education, with a huge district kind of grappling with all the things and then decided that it wasn't totally resonating. Something wasn't like totally fulfilling what I was picturing. And so through a series of things I ended up going back into retail for a little while to kind of figure things out, and then unexpectedly lost my parents pretty soon after I graduated from business school. And so I took some time off to just sort of check out from the world honestly, and then when I sort of reemerged I definitely had a different level of awareness of just how much energy it took to just do anything. Take a shower, make a meal and so just really commit to something like. If I'm going to put my energy into something every day, it's going to be something that is meaningful to me and has an impact on others and is meaningful to my parents. And so I just went to Tanzania for a trip for a little over six weeks and taught accounting to high school students there. And that was amazing and super frightening because I had no idea how to teach accounting and probably shouldn't have done it. So studying accounting at night, teaching it in the day, but it was just such an incredible sort of out of my past experience. And so when I came back, I really was committed to looking for an education role and felt that charters really offered an opportunity to kind of bring some of the entrepreneurial thinking, but in partnership with districts and really with the intent to sort of bring some really promising practices that could be scaled. And so I was really fortunate to meet someone who worked at Aspire and joined Aspire on the operations team. 11 years later, I’m still here. So it's been incredible.

Analiza: Thanks for sharing Mala. The thread that I'm hearing throughout your life, it's a commitment to helping you keep your parents and their spirit alive. It’s a commitment to education, a commitment to living life that it matters today. And it's a beautiful yet not an easy path that you took, because in some ways the Deloitte, the Harvard, the Levi's, all of those feel safe in being successful. Here's what makes a great career, a great life. I'm curious. You made a switch and you had this, call it a lightbulb moment, where … Here's what I want my life to be about. Let's go back to when you were young, maybe you're influenced by TV or even family members or school about what myths you heard that maybe drove you earlier with your decision before the lightbulb moment?

Mala: I think the model minority myth that now I have just a deeper understanding and appreciation of was very prevalent in my childhood. I did feel like oh, my parents came here and they worked really hard. They created this great life for us. And my dad grew up in deep poverty in India. So I just this whole notion of like there is an American dream as an immigrant was something I really subscribed to because I felt like I lived it in my family. And so I think to have the lens I have now of like, what were the systemic factors at play that enabled my family to have that experience, which is so different from many people who immigrate to this country, or who grew up in this country with a complicated history. I think another one that is somewhat different, though, I think is as a young girl, and then as a woman in working environments. And in my own family, I sort of always played this role of sort of peacemaker, sort of make people laugh, make people happy, I definitely fell into the like, avoid conflict at all costs, just try to make people happy. Harmony is probably just masking people not actually voicing their perspectives and their opinions and their thoughts. And if it seems simple, you're probably missing a whole lot of complexity. And really, just as a leader, having the courage to be disliked and sit in discomfort and sit in disagreement. If everybody's happy, you might not be doing something right. Like you won't be doing anything as a leader, right. So it’s all in your please none type of thing. And I just think that for somebody that has grown up with that, being rewarded and being valued, and as particularly as a woman, I have really had to stretch myself to sit with and encourage.

Analiza: Those resonate so much with me, Mala, talking about first the American dream. I too would just say, look, look at the American dream. It's alive. And well I'm an example of the American dream. Here's my flag. And when in reality, there's so much as an Asian American that I did benefit from the system of the model minority. So I appreciate you mentioning that, and having discussions with our family that when there's anti-blackness, when there's racism involved, those are important conversations because we perpetuate this narrative and don't realise that we do benefit and that we serve the system when we're fighting amongst each others versus coming together in solidarity. So I appreciate that a lot. And then the other piece Mala about being a leader who isn't the peacemaker, who will bring people to groupthink all get along with all go along to get along. I want to talk about that Mala, because that's hard, not just as a woman, but now you're Asian and that's a huge value of ours to be about the group the community and does not have, you know, tantrums. And so can you just talk about how you have been able to break the habit or do things differently or really be unpopular, because that's what's required of being a good leader,

Mala: We don't have to consider being critical as being negative. And I think that that is something like Aspire has just a beautiful culture that I'm fortunate to be a part of and learn from, where if you cannot see critical thinking and pushback and questions as an opportunity to strengthen your perspective or to think differently, or to have an opportunity to respond and share different information, you cannot stay here for 11 years, like you will just drive yourself insane. Every time I walk into those spaces, knowing that there's going to be some pushback and really trying to see the value in it. Because there's in these organizations we're in, there's so many different roles. And I think it's easy to say, as a CEO, well, I see all the things right, I'm the only one that has this lens where I can see this perspective. But the same is true for every role at Aspire, right? Like I am not living the experience our teachers are living day in and day out in the classroom. And so the lens that they're bringing to the experience that they're bringing is one I don't have a little note on my desk that says please all and you will please none. Because I think that can't be the objective, it's not really going to serve kids in the way that we're here to do.

Analiza: It's interesting to hear you say that there is mental preparation involved. Because that intention, I think, is really important. Otherwise, it would feel natural, if you're in this complicated situation than to say, Oh, this feels really uncomfortable, let's just get along, but to have prepared yourself mentally for the discomfort to know this is part of the game, and my opinions will get checked. And we're going to be okay, I will make a decision. And it's going to be the right decision versus the most pleasing one. And those deliberate intentions, I think, are a really beautiful way to lean away from our natural tendencies. So thanks for sharing Mala. So let's keep talking about these moments of getting to success in terms of your career, in your career, have these moments where you learned really what it takes to get to the top.

Mala: I don't think that I have gone through my career thinking about what the next thing was going to be. And I think part of that is the life experience that I had with my parents, like, what matters right now. And I think that part of that has been very helpful in some ways. Because like I said, if I felt like I was learning, like I was being pushed, and I had something to contribute, I was pretty content. I was also fortunate that there were other people around me who were thinking about what the next day was one of the first experiences where I felt like a leader in a different way than maybe I had felt as more of a manager or individual contributor as I moved into a role at Aspire overseeing operations and strategy. And I had a much bigger team than I had ever had. And my manager at the time was an awesome, strong woman, so many things I aspired to emulate her. And she expected me in a different way than I had ever been expected to, like, show up with a plan and a perspective and share it and she was there to give me feedback. But I think she was trying to let me have that aha moment. And I feel that sense of ownership and leadership and that she not only was like expecting it from me, but actually, like, believed I could deliver on it. I think my initial instinct was to like, Oh, now I have to like, own all this stuff, and be accountable and do a good job on all this stuff. Because people are all expecting me to do it. And really, I think what people are hoping is that you will build a team around you and trust that they can do the work and invest in them to do the work. And so that also was definitely a learning for me because I moved into this role first as an interim. So that was a big learning for me like it's not all about me. Just because I'm the CEO is actually way more about how I'm setting up others to be successful.

Analiza: It's interesting that the woman who set you up for managing the operations of the schools and strategy, she helped pave the path for your role now because she used the skills she modelled for you on how to believe in your people. Trust your people, expect hard things from your people, help them but give them some room to possibly fail. And then how you now are practicing that. And you aren't expected to know all the things. In fact, you believe in your team and you build your team so that they can unleash their talents. So I love that so much. Because sometimes as women, we don't necessarily help each other. And we don't necessarily yield power. Have you experienced that Mala?

Mala: I'm super fortunate to have a strong community of women, both inside Aspire and outside. And probably one of the most beautiful modes of support is sort of a former group of Aspire women, including my former manager, who I mentioned, who sort of came together when I stepped into this role, and unbeknownst to me decided that like, every month, one of them was going to send me some kind of encouragement. And so I started just like, every month, I would get, like a little gift in the mail and an encouraging note, and they would just take turns, and we get together, you know, every so often for dinner. And I just feel like I have a group that I can call or text, like, any time and they will answer and respond and have like, such a deep understanding of the organization and of the role and some of the complexities and I just, like, can't say enough, like how supported I felt one person kind of like named it, she was like, oh, you know, because we all created this little deal. We're going to support you. All these women are so busy, and like with family, with career, and they all come to these meals religiously, every time like people make it a priority. And it's just so powerful to feel like there are people that are invested in your success. I'm the first woman of color in this CEO role at Aspire, and there have definitely been more than one moment where I found myself thinking like, what happened with my male predecessor or CEO? Like, would you have said it that way? Would you have showed up that way, or I have felt that sometimes feels like there's like a little bit of a lack of formality in terms of like how people see me in this role, versus maybe how they saw like, you know, a larger than life Don Shalvey, a charismatic leader, or like a former, you know, white leader. And I don't think it's completely unconscious. I don't think there's anything deliberate there. But it is interesting to have sat in that seat and thought, wow, I never saw anyone show up that way.

Analiza: What a fantastic group Mala to send you words and little gifts of encouragement during tough times. I'm really happy to hear that you have such a supportive group. And also that there's a sense of, I see that sometimes in these roles, people can treat you and treat people of color like me in these top seats in a way that's different than we've seen personally with white male leaders, and so unconscious or not unconscious. I'm curious as those times happened, and you're trying to do the best you can, what would you advise another woman CEO, and she's the first woman of color to be at that seat. And it will likely happen with her too. What would you say to her to prepare?

Mala: My personal experience is that leadership is so personal, the most comforting, reassuring, empowering advice I got when I moved into this role was from my coach at the National Equity project, Lisa Lasky. And I was like, kind of going down this spiral of all these sorts of impostor feelings and uncertainty, and she just looked at me and she said, you can only do this as you and it was just such a like, simple statement, but I have like, I have held it, I have called on it. I have thought about it, like so many times, because I think as women as women of color, it can just be so easy to think, Well, he did it that way, or people loved it that way. Or I'm just not the person that has those kinds of ideas or has that type of energy, right? And there's just this constant comparison, that at least I found myself doing unconsciously all the time and sort of like beating myself up because I'm not this larger than life, like over the moon charismatic. I'm like, I build my trust in small moments. I like my small group, deep relationships. Like that's how I moved through the world. And it just gave me this permission to not have to change how I move through the world because I was suddenly in this very different, much more visible role. And so I think that that's just something I would advise anyone who's stepping into a leadership role that feels, you know, under a microscope in a different way that like, ultimately if you're not doing this as you it will be too hard. I think that's probably been the most powerful thing for me to keep coming back to

Analiza: Mala, have you had to shift anything major about the way that you operate? Because I love so much authenticity.

Mala: I definitely think so. And I think to your point, I don't feel like they're inauthentic. But I've had to stretch myself in ways for sure. I like hearing people's perspectives, and at what point is it like, okay, you've done the listening, it's time to make a call and be transparent about what it is and why I think the other is also like, you know, as somebody who is more of an introvert in this type of role, and who maybe didn't see myself in this type of a role, when you are sort of the person who's leading from the front, like, how do you use that platform in really meaningful ways. And I think that I sort of ended up doing that, not accidentally, but maybe without the level of attention that I realized I could really bring in a role like this. So we had an incident at one of our schools, and we were talking, you know, the classroom teacher was talking in elementary school about Black Lives Matter, and about the murder of George Floyd. And we had some parents that were not happy about that, and reached out to the school to complain, and then started posting on social media. The principal of the school asked me if I could sort of make a statement about, you know, sort of defending why we do this. And so I thought a lot about it. And I recorded a video that night, just like on my couch in my family room, about why we talk about Black Lives Matter and why it matters to say that and talk about it with our young people and posted it. And it was probably the thing that got the most positive and appreciation from our community in terms of just saying that out loud, posting it like moving quickly in response to what had happened rather than like a big strategic plan for how we were going to respond. And it was really just stuck with me because I thought, wow, like, that was a fairly easy thing for me to do, right to say what I believed and we believe, as an org record myself saying, and I posted it on my Instagram, right? That wasn't hard. And it just made me think like, what are those messages that need to be said that directly and that clearly that I might just be taking for granted in some way. And how meaningful it can be coming from someone who is seen as like the face of the organization.

Analiza: The connection of your own personal convictions and the tie to the platform, Mala, even as an introvert is really powerful, because it is quite the platform to really impact not just that one parent, and that school, but your 36 schools, and especially the staff who are all part of the community to see you and your living room, really speaking from the heart. So I appreciate it. Because maybe as introverts it can be easy to say, Oh, it's so hard to say anything publicly. But actually, there's a lot that could be said, it doesn't have to be so grand on a stage, it could be in your living room, and it could be a post. So that's really wonderful. And it doesn't have to be like 30 pages of planning,

Mala: Right? Which has always kind of been my default. Right? It's like, I don't want to do it until I know it's like perfectly scripted out and planned out and thorough moments that just don't call for that. But again, it's going against sort of your natural, natural way of operating.

Analiza: So while with the connection to personal, I'm curious for you, especially rising into senior positions. And now CEO, what have you realized about really what it takes to be a CEO and a mom and a partner and a sister? How do you find respite? How do you thrive?

Mala: I've talked to you about this and was fortunate to go through the Boss Mamas program, which I really took a lot from because I really just kind of have been grappling with that. Like, I certainly have an awareness that I have not been the wife and mother, sister or friend that I want to be during this time. And I don't feel good about that. But I'm also trying to be really fair to myself about what I can do and what I can do well, and I think there's two things that maybe I've had to just sort of accept and do to maintain my own sanity one has been like I say no to extras. And what I mean by that is like I'm fortunate I get invited to a lot of like really cool events and really interesting like panels and things and I used to always feel like I should go to all these things because I should meet all these people and I should represent this buyer and I should, you know expand my network. And just being a pandemic frankly really helped with those going away and as they come back and just like I rarely will do those extras because they take away from my personal time with my family. And they also again, as an introverted person, they create a lot of stress for me, liberating taking some pressure off myself. And then similarly on parenting. In the beginning, I was like, Well, I'm going to drop off three days a week, or two days a week, and I'm still going to volunteer for this thing, and I'm going to make a snack for this. And I just sort of accepted like, right now, at this time in my life, I am not the person doing the pickup and drop off. I am not the person that knows all the parents at the school, my husband is that person, I sometimes feel envious, or I feel guilty about that. But I've just sort of accepted that I'm not the hands-on parent right now, like me very much is, and I'm really grateful that he's playing that role. And I just told myself, it's for now. And so I'll do the things like, you know, my daughter was in a play a couple of weeks ago, and we all went and it was awesome. But it's like the day-to-day stuff. It's just not going to be me for now.

Analiza: Say no to the extras. And understand this is a chapter and the chapter for now is your husband gets to be the hands on partner, which is also pretty awesome. That one he's doing that, but to that he gets an opportunity to and that you plan to be that person whenever it is that you will. So there's like an acceptance rather than like, Oh, so much guilt, so much resistance. It's like okay, for this chapter, there I am, it's fine. I'm fine, we're fine. So Mala tell me what advice would you give a woman in their career trying to make it to the top?

Mala: Again, getting to meet more people in roles like this, many of us who are not in those roles believe that people have been preparing their entire careers for this moment, right? And so they now are ready for the CEO role. And by and large, the majority of people I feel like I need now and this may be more of analyzing than many years ago is like people sort of stumbled into it in one way or another or like a series of events happened, which is true for me too, or just sort of happened. And you were and not to say that like you're not qualified or you're not up for the challenge. But maybe that wasn't like the lifelong plan that you feel like you're working towards. And so I think for many of us, we can feel like all these people were preparing for this, so they're ready, but I just sort of fell into it. And I don't know what is on my way through. And I just think that there is something very empowering about realizing that very few people, regardless of how they come across actually feel like they really know what moves to make next. And so as somebody like, you know, one of my coaches is a former male white CEO, who in our first session together, talked about his own imposter syndrome, and I fell out of my seat. I never thought those words would come out of his mouth. And so I just think like, it can be so easy to psych yourself out. It's like, everybody's got this, and I'm sort of the odd one out. But I just think it's important to like, have a supportive circle, who have people who understand what your job is, because a lot of people will not understand and that can feel really lonely. And get yourself a really good coach, who also understands what your job is, and is really invested in you as a human being and as a professional success, because you can certainly do one without the other and not be happy. And then I think, you know, maybe the last one is just kind of where I started. If you expect to be stretched, expect to be uncomfortable and lean into that. But if you feel like it's to a place where you can't be who you really are and lead as who you really are, then I think I would question whether or not it's the right role in the right organization, because I just think that of all the things that make these roles unsustainable, that is impossible.

Analiza: Hear hear. Mala so good. So let's do lightning round questions. Ready?

Mala: Hey, I think so.

Analiza: Okay, chocolate or vanilla?

Mala: Chocolate

Analiza: Cooking or take out?

Mala: Take out.

Analiza: Climb a mountain or jump from a flame?

Mala: Climbing relatively not steep.

Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Mala: Never.

Analiza: How would you rate your karaoke skills on a scale of one to 1010 being Mariah Carey?

Mala: Negative 10

Analiza: Recent book you read.

Mala: I'm currently reading a great book called, You Sound like a White Girl by Julissa Arce, who is an activist in LA and also a board member of Aspire. It's an awesome read about assimilation and immigrant story.

Analiza: What's your favorite way to practice self care?

Mala: I do a lot of yoga. And thanks to my time in Boss Mamas I have also realized that even if I can only do 10 minutes of it, it will serve me. So I make sure I make time for that.

Analiza: Speaking of Boss Mamas, can you talk about what you got out of it?

Mala: I'm so grateful to you for that space. Because I think just the opportunity to connect with other women who were just dealing with all kinds of similar and different challenges was an opportunity to kind of feel like you could contribute and also take things which were really a powerful community. I think one of the things that I've shared a lot that also struck me about that and you explain this in a really helpful way, I think when sometimes we set these like goals for ourselves personally, but we don't really think about like, Why do I want that? Like, what is it sort of in deeper service of.I think you use an example about wanting to lose weight, but kind of what's underneath that is like really wanting to be healthier and like to spend time outside. And I think that is sort of what has allowed me to reintegrate yoga and exercise into my life in a more consistent way. Because what was underneath that, for me, was really needing some mental space. And so it just like helped me see that like even doing that, like I don't have to have an hour because I'm not doing this for the like, raising my heart rate, like losing weight is smart, like I need 10 minutes where like, I am in my own state and sort of drowning out everything else. And so that has really sort of lost my rhythm because I was like, Well, I don't have the time and I can't make the time and that made it feel very palatable, and has really allowed me to be more consistent.

Analiza: I love its consistency, baby steps. What's your definition of a Boss Mama?

Mala: I think it's honestly just being able to see how awesome you are for trying to do all the things. I don't think it's about how you're doing. Just the fact that you're trying to do all these things, because they matter to you makes you a boss.

Analiza: What advice would you give your younger self Mala?

Mala: I think just taking every moment.

Analiza: And where can we find you like LinkedIn or any social media linked in?

Mala: I have a Mala Aspire Instagram handles that I use for all things Aspire

Analiza: The last question, do you have a final ask for a recommendation or any parting thoughts to share?

Mala: I just you know, having now listened to many of your podcasts, I just really have just a ton of respect for the vulnerability that I think so many women in leadership, like are willing to share, because I think it can be really empowering. And I'm really grateful you've created multiple spaces for that. But I also appreciate that there is also an emphasis on lifting up all the great things that women are doing, because I think sometimes it's all about the vulnerability and all about the struggle and all about the challenge. And I think sometimes we forget to name the thing that we're doing really well and having an impact and making a contribution. And so I'm really grateful to you for creating spaces for that. And I just like I'm grateful to all the women who have participated in your spaces who have like, I think been great reminders of reflect on the challenge and work through it, but also like celebrate all the great things that you've been able to do for yourself and for your organization and for the people around you.

Analiza: Mala with that, thank you for being a model for us of not just vulnerability, but for badass celebration of all the things you do as a CEO, as a mom, as a friend. I appreciate you.

Mala: Thank you Analiza, I feel the same way.

Analiza: Thank you so much for carving out time today to hear today's podcast. Three things before you go. First, if you found it helpful, please leave a five star review. Second, please share with someone else you can share the link and posts on Facebook and say check it out. Lastly, I want to thank you for being a listener and you can go to get a free self care bonus called juicy your joy at analizawolf.com/freebonus. Thank you so much