Analiza: Welcome to the Women of Color Rise Podcast. I'm Analiza Quiros Wolf, proud Filipina-American, mom of two, and former CEO of a nonprofit and Captain in the US Air Force. I'm on a mission to support having more diverse leaders at the table. We'll be talking with successful CEOs and C suite women leaders of color and learning about their leadership journeys. If you're a woman or woman of color, who wants a seat at the table, you're in the right place. Now let's get into today's show.

Kange Kaneene is the vice president of sap that IO foundries North and Latin America and SAP has a no equity ask external startup accelerator. The theme from her career has been her passion for diversity and creating equally distributed access to opportunity. She's an angel investor with Pipeline Angels Group, which is a group of female investors who invest in female founders. She's also a mentor for entrepreneurs as a volunteer for Defy Ventures. It's a nonprofit that invests in founders who are currently or formerly incarcerated. Welcome Kange, thank you so much for being here.

Kange: Yes, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to chat today.

Analiza: All right, we're going to start with your path, and particularly your upbringing. How did you get to where you are?

Kange: I grew up in East Lansing, Michigan, in the Midwest of the US from two parents that are immigrants from Uganda, which is a country in East Africa. I have two siblings, I'm the middle, we're all equally distant apart. My brother is two years older, my sister is two years younger. So we grew up in a home with a lot of love. Our parents expose this to many things. We grew up in a college town, East Lansing, Michigan is where Michigan State University is. And so because of that it's infused with a lot of different external parties that come in, and of course, that of diversity in terms of the students. So we did things like figure skating and gymnastics and played instruments and played soccer and danced and did all these different things. And our parents also really exposed us to different career paths. So if I said I wanted to be a lawyer, the next day I would be at a class at the law school, just sitting in the back as a 10 year old. One thing that was interesting growing up is we grew up in a neighborhood that was basically all Caucasian. I actually didn't have a close black friend until I was 18 years old. And so all my siblings, we always had a lot of friends and felt like we fit in. But then in hindsight, when you look back, I realized there probably weren't a lot of situations where I wasn't as expected as I thought, but made me more confident and comfortable as I've always looked up to my brother, and he was an athlete growing up, and he played football. And so in middle school, I told my mom, okay, well, I want to play football. I'm going to be on the tackle football team. My brother that summer before every day he takes me out to the front yard, he would show me the proper tackling techniques and explain to me how I can get myself all ready. And so the first day of the summer training program again, this summer I went and obviously the only girl, obviously the only black person. That was great, but that time when you're in middle school, the girls are either the same or bigger than the guys are. From a size perspective. It was okay. And I walked in, and my mom dropped me off and she waited in the car. I think she thought I'm just going to turn around. So she just waited. And the minute I got in the car, I was so scared because I realized what I was doing and I was a little bit late. So the coach was standing and all the other players were sitting around him on a knee like you know, they were below him looking up and so there was no room for me in the circle. And so I walked up and this guy on our forget his name's Larry moved to the side and said here, you can sit here and I was like, okay, that made me feel good. And so then I mustered the courage to stay and it was the one of the best decisions I've made. I ended up playing for two years. I was captain when I started at high school, my mom drew the line like, Okay, you have to quit. That really was the beginning of me trying to find my voice to show that at least at that stage of my life, I was an athlete that was on par in some cases even better than some of the other boys on the team.

Analiza: I love that story so much Kange because not only were you the only person of color black person, you're a woman, I mean, talk about the only and defying stereotypes. Incredible. And luckily for you to have the star football brother to show you the ropes.

Kange: My family has always been supportive. I remember in high school, I was really into AOL Instant Messenger, you know, and so I would come home at night and just talk to my friends. So in the wee hours and so my dad would always see me on a computer. And so I think he thought I was doing something productive on the computer. But of course I was just chatting. So when it came time to go to college, I did not know what I wanted to major in. And so he said, Well, what about computer science? You know, you love those computers. I was like, I didn't know what computer science was at all. I'd never heard of it. I don't think, you know, lawyer doctor. And so I said, Sure, I'll try. What I liked about my first computer science one on one classes at least back then we would literally start with a black screen and then type something and then end up in a program. So I liked that you could create something from nothing. So the first class was like nothing I'd ever done. So I said, Okay, I'll do it in the next class. And it was very challenging. I mean, it was not easy for me, you take a lot of math after my first year, when you have to think about declaring your major my advisor told me he said, I don't think this is a good fit for you, I don't think you should do it. And that really kind of pissed me off. And so I think that also fueled the reason why I stayed. But no, I had a lot of sleepless nights. And I used to cry because I would just be so frustrated. It just was really challenging for me. But I ended up doing it. And me and two other women started an organization that the University of Michigan called Geek, which stands for girls in electrical engineering, computer science, because not surprisingly, there weren't that many girls. And it was great. We got some really good sponsors from Microsoft, and Goldman Sachs. And now that organization has expanded to about five different universities. And it's a whole legacy that we're so proud that we started. And again, you know, not very many women of color, in general, and in college, you have the concept of corporate presentations, where a company will come and present the open jobs, what was good about those is they always had free food. Usually it was pizza, one time this company came, and they were having Panera Bread, it just seemed like a dream. So I went. And when I got there, it was for the company called Bain consulting, which is a management consulting firm. And at the time, I had never heard of consulting before. But the guy really sold me, he talked about opportunities to travel, exposure to different industries, dynamic projects, if I could just really fit my personality. So I thought, okay, so maybe I should do consulting. But because computer science was so hard for me, I was nervous about completely just throwing that all away. So I did a compromise and did tech consulting.

Analiza: Being in situations where you are sometimes the only and yeah, I'm curious, these challenges that you can't do it. Does that continue in your career?

Kange: I've had challenges my whole life with being the only. I guess I'm a glutton for punishment, but everything I've decided to do is football, technology, all those things do not have women. And just in general, as the minority, you know, you're always the minority. Every time I walk into a room, I'm completely aware of how many people look like me, I'm aware of it, it doesn't mean that it makes me feel like I'm less than I think it actually gets harder, the more experienced I am, because the further you go up, the less there are of us. And so you would think it gets easier. But it's actually the opposite. People tell me that I look young, I'm sure. And I must warn them. So it's just people always trying to understand. So what are you doing here? Or I feel like I always have to explain my resume. Because if I don't, they assume that there's another reason I'm there, someone tried to give me a break or affirmative action or anything else. And it can't just be because I'm here because I deserve to be. I also see it in terms of compensation and opportunities. It's just everywhere.

Analiza: Kange, can you share with me, when you decide to go into this world of investment and to companies?

Kange: About five years ago, at SAP, which is where I work now, I started a role in business development, which means I was supposed to find external partnerships for SAP to work with. And the executive I was working for really wanted to do an acquisition. So he learned to buy another company. And so he asked me to do what's called a market scan, which means go out and see who we should buy. And it was exciting for me, because it was the first time I'd ever really worked externally like that, before that all my roles were more internal. And from that I started to work with companies that were smaller than SAP, more agile, innovative, exciting, in a way, just very different from SAP. And so I thought, okay, how can I do this as my full time job working with these types of companies? So I thought, I think that's what venture capitalists do. But then, of course, I thought, well, I don't know if I have the proper background. And also, I don't know how one gets into venture capital. So I started to just be as active as I could in the New York entrepreneurship ecosystem. So I started going to demo days, pitch competitions. And my objective there was to see how investors interact with startups. What kind of questions are asking them? And also what are startups innovating on? I didn't even know if I understood what the future was for companies because I wanted to see if it was glamorous to me, or if it was actually something I would enjoy. And then I also started telling everybody that would listen, that I want to do VC because I thought maybe one day someone will just call me so I just was networking like crazy. One thing that I realized by doing that is first of all, a lot of the ideas were very similar like cryptocurrency, FinTech and then also the people at these events. And I think from SAP, I was able to coerce people to let me join these events. So they're sort of like marquee events, and a lot of people are men and most of them are Caucasian, or Asian. And I said, Okay, I have a very diverse group of friends. They're doing cool things. And also there must be more to innovate on than crypto and fintech. The more research I understand now out there, this continent with a call overlooks founders and a lot of demographics just have a really hard time getting access to capital for a number of reasons. And that, to me, was something that I thought was such a shame. And so I developed the passion to purchase access to opportunity, but more specifically access to capital. And I thought, what can I do as an individual to contribute to that? So that's why I started externally to do some things like Angel investing, which means investing as an individual into companies. And I do that with Pipeline Angel that helps women. I also have the formerly incarcerated opportunity, so we scout for VC, so all these ways to try to bring money to the people that I think deserve it the most, in parallel, SAP started a group in 2016, called SAP.IO that was a fund a corporate fund, and accelerator, it just so happened that the executive that started that was my former boss for my first role at SAP. And again, because I told everybody I wanted to VC he knew that was something I wanted to do. But he also I don't think necessarily thought I was someone that had the right background for it, which to his point was, was probably true at the time. So he said, Why don't you just, you know, be a friend of our group? You can mentor some of the startups, you can, you know, join some of our selection committees. He also had just recently hired the head of North America, whose name was Vanessa, so we became friendly. Actually, sometimes we'd go to events together. And I would actually represent SAP.io, which is funny because I didn't work for them, partly because they were like investing in like people of color. And they needed someone to go as they don't have many people of color. And so then it was just a dream. In April 2021, Vanessa, the head of North America called me and said, I wanted to let you know that I'm leaving to start my own venture. I think you should replace me, I couldn't believe it. And so that's how I got the role I have now. It's been such a pleasure. And our organization focuses on what we call no boundaries. So we focused on companies that are led by people of color and women. And so it's a dream job for me.

Analiza: I love the story. And I want to actually map it out, because there are some themes here con gay that you were, you took initiative. And you said, listen, here's what I want to do. Second, you verbalize it to as many people as possible. Third, you showed up to different events, and tried to learn as much as you could by being there talking to people. And then fourth, you position yourself in a company, even though that wasn't your job, to be ready for the opportunity. So she didn't just call you out of the blue, you're deliberate. And those wouldn't have happened, had you not been so mindful. So I love those strategies. How did you learn those strategies?

Kange: I learned early on that you have to work for things and they don't necessarily fall in your lap. And so I'm someone that is, in a way, fairly risk averse, and that I need to kind of like have a plan. And so it helps me to know where I'm going to go. And then work backwards. When I was working my first job out of college, I met this guy that gave me some legal advice, because I was thinking about grad school, but I didn't know if I wanted to do it. And he said, and I actually didn't know how I would make myself attractive to go to a top business school. He said, my advice is to open an application for the school that you think you want to go to and see if you can fill it out. Try to complete it. I only worked for one year. So I opened Berkeley. And literally I couldn't fill out anything besides my name because I asked questions like, how have you changed the corporation that you work for? And all these things? And it helped me because then I said, Alright, I want to do things intentionally so that I can have something to say on the application. I think that has kind of been fueling my restless career, which is this look of the people that are where I want to be and how did they get there. And I know everybody has their own path. But I think because my parents are immigrants, too. You don't have an embed network that can help us with things. And so we have to create our own networks. And so that's how I've tried to survive.

Analiza: It's a great strategy. I also wanted to highlight this idea you shared earlier to convey that when you're in rooms that people question you. And so I'm curious, that continues to be a theme. How, how do you navigate that?

Kange: Sometimes it throws me off. For example, people have said, Wow, you're the head of Sapa.iO North America, how did you get that job? The old me would have said, Oh, like what I told you this, but then I got a coach recently just to say, I was recruited, right? And it's just like, I am here because they wanted me here. I try my best to keep a smile on that, you know, not started to get aggressive or anything. This is new in the last year where I actually feel like I've come into my own and I'm very comfortable in the role I'm in. I do a lot of external speaking, and I feel like I'm justifiably like who I am. There are other times in my career where I wouldn't have been as comfortable saying I was recruited even if that was the case. Because I think okay, some of it was luck. But now I don't worry about that anymore. I think my path was exactly what where I was supposed to be. And I'm proud of where I am.

Analiza: Turning 40 Kange is empowering. That's true. And yet it's 40 Right? Like why are we having to talk about that at 40 after an amazing year? Why couldn't have been right off the bat? You had a great school like Michigan? Yeah. So let's talk about this because there's a myth that I can expose myself, because they're going to find cracks, they don't want me to win. So I was talking about these different myths.

Kange: In a lot of cases, it was not a myth. I mean, I was right that people didn't want me to win, right? I have times that people proactively are trying to do things to bring me down. I think what has been, the only way I know how to navigate things in personal and professional life is just to focus on creating and maintaining relationships. That's all I can do. So there has been a situation where I'm engaging with someone who literally I know, for a fact, has never had a conversation with a black person before. So this is a lot of things to have to bring into the table, right? I'm representing billions of people, I'm also representing whatever you think I am, and all these things. So in that case, I just try to say, Okay, what's at least one thing I can try to connect to their kids like music with that, and they use it as a wedge to them, like, at least I want to be able to say, kinda is cool. Like, I like her as a person, right? And I think when people like you, then things are just easier, right? It's harder to consider me your enemy, if you actually think that I'm a fun person to be around. So that's kind of been what I've tried to do to debunk the thing. And I'm like, Okay, if I can just create these small advocates along the way, so that maybe one day, they'll be talking, I won't be there. And the one person that we just had caught that will be like, No, but it's actually yesterday.

Analiza: It's real and when we don't have necessarily obvious ways of connection, what we can we connect on so that we can be seen as people humans, right? With exact insights to be really powerful. Tell me other myths that you might have had growing up, or just in your career.

Kange: There were a lot of times where I was passed up for things. And actually, when I think about my friends from Stern, I'm considerably behind talking about, well, one, the generational thing, right? So I always felt like, at Stern, where I went to business school, I felt like that was sort of an equalizer. We all came from where we came from, we all got into the same school, for the most part, we started, we left making around the same salary. So I thought, Alright, so now whatever we've been through, we're sort of, again, on the same page, five years out, there are people that were buying their second home, you know, angel investing earlier doing all these things. I'm thinking like, what happened, right? And you realize, Okay, one, generational wealth is a real thing, right? When your parents or family can give you a down payment on your home, they can be your nanny, all these sorts of things help set the connections that you have to get to situations faster, like no one is calling me then to say, Do you want to sit on this board? Second, just the fact that there's no data to prove that when people of color just get paid less? Right, the salary that you offered initially, and then your ability to negotiate thereafter, is not as you don't have as much leverage when you have friends that you're comfortable with. And you asked me to talk about compensation is a shock. I mean, I have friends making like $100,000 more than me with similar roles. It's crazy. Some of it's my fault, because I haven't until recently, I haven't been successful in feeling comfortable in negotiating because I'm always worried about what they're going to say.

Analiza: I just appreciate you so much. Thank you for sharing, because there is generational wealth and generational access, not just to money, but people when we think about human entrepreneurship and taking risks. People can take risks, white people, white males, often can take risks because there's a cushion that other people of color might not have. And so there's reasons it's not just like pure talent, and the salary one I appreciate also Kange, that you share it, because often we're like, we don't want to share, you know, it's not private information. And in addition to asking for more money, like, Who are you to ask, you're lucky example, this job and you're greedy, especially in a company nonprofit, it's like, are you about the children or not? And like I want to be compensated. So Right. It's this double tension, they told us never to accept the first salary. I'm curious what other ecrets of success are just things that you wish you had known earlier?

Kange: It's true about relationships. I think I've always been naive, which is, if I feel like I do have a relationship with someone, then they have my best interests at heart. And I think it's definitely you need to be vulnerable, to be honest. But you also need to have your eyes open, and be aware. Because there's been times in the work setting where I feel like I've had my backstab when I look back, I thought that was so obvious. I should have known that was going to happen. But I just didn't think I'm like, this is a person I consider my friend. And I just don't think that way about people. But again, it doesn't mean you have to have a negative attitude, but just have eyes open and understand that people have different motivations for being where they are. And again, as you go up in an organization, it's of course competitive. And so that brings out different things and people.

Analiza: What does it look like to build relationships because that is a key part of moving up and also is more fun, fulfilling? And then second, how do you make sure you protect yourself?

Kange: Going to business school and other organizations they talked about? Networking network meet all the people you can. And I realized early on that there's a wrong and right way to network, in my opinion, right. So there's a network where you find someone who you look up to maybe and you say, hey, let's get coffee every month. And in some cases, it's not organic, and you don't have the chemistry. It's just especially with people that are busy. It's hard to really create something positive out of that, in some cases. But what I realized at least in the network setting is, I try to network by getting to know people by actually doing work. So for example, when I have a job, and if my boss has asked me like, what kind of projects do you want to work on, I try my best to align myself with projects that are cross functional. So I have to do work with marketing, I have to do work with finance. So that way, I'm going to limit they're actually seeing the work that I can do and the contributions that can make that way, when I want to move around in the organization, I have people that can actually say, not only do I like her, but I've actually seen her in that meeting, and she killed it or whatever. So I called it intentional networking, where it's still organic, but they have more to talk about than just the personality, especially when you're a non credible demographic, they need to have these actual facts. And so I think that's been something that's been powerful.

Analiza: And adding to that, what does it look like to be so deliberate in getting relationships, but then make sure that you're protecting yourself? What do you do for that?

Kange: I don't have it all figured out yet. But one is, I try to look at patterns. Like because sometimes people feel comfortable confiding in you about things, right? And so if they're confiding you about something and you think that's kind of a messed up situation, you know, the only would have been like, yeah, he or she did that to that person, but because we haven't relationship, they wouldn't do it to me, no, probably it's like dating, right? You should look at these trends. Also, try to understand how people are motivated. So for example, if I'm really good friends with someone's boss, who's not my boss, you know, think about is that going to be a threat to the person? And how are they bringing that? Can I bring them into conversations I'm having, or I just tried to preempt things, but again, I haven't figured it out. But just understanding why someone like what you think the person needs to move up? And how are you in that equation? Right? Are you in the way? Are you going to be an advocate? Or do they see you as a threat?

Analiza: Pastor TD Jakes has these stratifications of people, there's your confidants, those are the people who in the worst of times, they're going to be there for you. They're your comrades, people who are with you, as long as they're going to get something out of it. And then there are the just people who pass through. And they're like a plumber. It's like a one time interaction and to actually stratify those first two to say, actually, you're my person versus we're here, as long as it makes sense. And I'm going to make sure that I am not surprised if there's something that happens where you have to make a decision that's for you not about me, then that's what that is. That's really great. Okay, we're going to go into the personal now con gay and we're turning 40. So happy birthday early.

Kange: Thank you.

Analiza: And I'm curious, what do you think about family? If you want a family, your career, even your personal life hasn't been a sacrifice on that end?

Kange: Growing up, I never really had a strong desire to have kids, not because I don't like kids, I actually get along. Well, because my parents are good parents, my mom in particular, basically canceled her life for us. She was just an amazing mom, she was always there. She just was an amazing mom. And that's the kind of mom that I would want to be. And so I think about that, and like with the life I have now, there's no way I could be a mom like she was because you know, I just can't travel, I work a lot. If I do have kids, I've decided that I definitely want to adopt one because there's so many kids that need to be adopted. But also because I don't have this organic desire to be a natural mom, that kind of helps. Because then I don't have this internal clock ticking, I'm clear that I definitely want a partner or a companion and also just a partner. But I don't want to just get married. And so unfortunately, I haven't met anybody yet. And it could be because I focus on my career. I'm also seeing people getting divorced now as well, and how messy that is. Right? So I hope that won't happen in my situation. But I really do want someone who's a Partner. And sometimes that's not something that the people I've met are looking for, right? They really want to be seen as the person that's the provider and the head of the household. And I think that's probably not compatible with me.

Analiza: Your clarity on who you want to be as a mom, I don't need to be pregnant, I can adopt. And I'm also not going to settle for just anyone that's beautiful. What advice would you give a woman in their career trying to make it to a senior position?

Kange: I'd say it's okay to have a meandering path. We didn't talk as much by path of SAP, but it's been just one job from another that if you looked at on paper, you'd probably would wonder how did it happen but be okay with trusting the people that are looking at you and saying this is the role that I think you'd be good at? Because there are times where people would say, Hey, I think you should join my team. And I first thought really, I don't know that you know, but then and sometimes you will see things that you don't you don't see in yourself. And so it's okay to try. It's okay to fail a little bit. But just make sure that you're advocating for yourself and saying, Okay, I'm moved to that role, but it needs to be a promotion, you know, but I need to get that raise, especially when I didn't apply for this job like, do you want me so then? How much do you want me to make sure that people understand what your worth is?

Analiza: With that? Let's go to our lightning round questions.

Kange: Okay.

Analiza: Chocolate or vanilla?

Kange: Vanilla.

Analiza: Cooking or takeout ?

Kange: Cooking.

Analiza: Climb a mountain or jump from a plane?

Kange: Climb a mountain.

Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Kange: No.

Analiza: How would you rate your karaoke skills on a scale of one to ten and ten being Mariah Carey?

Kange: Funny because Mariah Carey, Always Be My Baby, is my go to karaoke songs. And I don't have a good voice. But I have a really good presentation. So I get the crowd going. So I think, you know, eight, but again that's not because of the voice.

Analiza: What's a recent book you read?

Kange: I'm using a book right now. It's like just a fun book. It's Not All diamonds and Rose. The book is about the Real Housewives.

Analiza: What's your favorite way to practice self care?

Kange: Working out.

Analiza: What's a really good professional development you've done?

Kange: I was talking earlier about things that I've realized in the past year. My boss was gracious enough to sponsor me to get an executive coach. It's been really helpful. It helps in terms with the way I took with my story. It's gave me by a stylist, I think I have good style. But she told me, there's situations where you're sitting versus standing, still photo versus film, and those things matter.

Analiza: And what's your definition of a Boss Mama?

Kange: Someone knows how to get after what she wants.

Analiza: What advice would you give your younger self?

Kange: YOLO. You know, just do it. I think you can really talk yourself out of a lot of things. Life is short. And you think that everything is how it's going to be and then until it's not. So just take advantage of every day.

Analiza: And then where can we find you like LinkedIn or anywhere else?

Kange: Yeah, I'm super approachable. So feel free, you can email me directly. kangekaneene@sap.com. I'm on LinkedIn. I don't know anybody in the world that has my name. So any social media that you want to find me on? It's just my first and last name. There's no numbers. There's no nothing. So I am on Twitter, but I don't really tweet. So if you tweet at me, I probably won't know. But LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, email, you can find me.

Analiza: Yeah, my final ask recommendation or any parting thoughts for the audience?

Kange: I always tell people, the cure to most things is perspective. So do what you can to gain more perspective. travel more, talk to more people, try new things. You'll be more interesting. And you will also think other people are more interesting.

Analiza: Thank you so much. You're welcome. Thank you so much for carving out time today to hear today's podcast. Three things before you go. First, if you found it helpful, please leave a five star review. Second, please share with someone else you can share the link and posts on Facebook and say check it out. Lastly, I want to thank you for being a listener and you can go to get a free self care bonus called juice your joy at analizawolf.com/freebonus. Thank you so much.