Analiza: Hi, I'm Analiza Quiroz Wolf, proud Asian-American, mama of two kiddos. I went from being a Burned Out Mama to being a Boss Mama, being a boss at work, home, and play. I'm on a mission to help more women be Boss Mamas. If you want to thrive at work without sacrificing family or self care, you are in the right place. For detailed show notes, go to analizawolf.com/podcast and be sure to subscribe because I send out the best secrets I learned from my guests to my email subscribers. Now let's get into today's show.

In the aftermath of the #metoo movement, how can we approach traumatic events like a Boss Mama? In this episode, Analiza talks with Chinese American Melissa Ng Goldner. After she graduated from University of Mary Washington, Melissa spent her career in consulting, eventually becoming Partner at Ogilvy and Mather and now Partner at Prophet.

In Boss Mamas, we talk about how breakdowns lead to breakthroughs. Some of the biggest growth in our lives often comes from the hardest things we face. Melissa is a great example of this.

Melissa shares her journey from being known as the kid who carried a violin at school to being sexually abused and raped. Melissa shares how today, she is grateful for these experiences. These breakdowns helped her be the woman and mom she is today. Melissa has taken that anger and pain and used it to fuel her mission - uplifting the voices of marginalized women. Melissa, I'm so excited to talk with you. A fun fact about you is your name. What is the background about your name?

Melissa: Well, it's more the genetic test. My brother took a genetics test because we always questioned, are you really fully Chinese? Because we always looked a little mixed. So my father encouraged my brother a couple of years ago to take a genetics test. We were always told you're Chinese, and we found out we're mostly Chinese, part Korean, a little bit Finnish. I don't know where that comes from. And we found out that a long, long, long ancestor of ours is Genghis Khan, not something I'm really proud of. But I don't think I have any choice with regards to that.

Analiza: That is so random. I don't even know you can take a genetic test to get you to that kind of ancestry.

Melissa: When you don't know, some people like transparency and all the knowledge.

Analiza: All right, with that said, an ancestor of yours being Genghis Khan. Another funny thing I learned about you, Melissa, is that you have this bracelet that says Boss Mamas right here. I mean, that's crazy. Where did you get it? What's this about?

Melissa: So one of my little cousins, and she's always been little to me, because I always think that she's eight years old, but she's 27 now 28 years old. But she saw that these bracelets were all the rage. But she's also very Asian and said, “You know, I'm not going to spend 20 something dollars on something I can make myself” so she made it for me. And I wear it almost everyday and I bring it to work. And I really, sometimes if someone says something that really pisses me off, I look at it. Sometimes people touch their fingers, and they breathe three deep breaths. I look at the bracelet. It's my count of 123. And I look back and address the situation in a way where I feel empowered and that I have strength and I will be able to move forward no matter what.

Analiza: I love that both the bracelet and the pause Melissa because I often do that too. Even whenever I go into a meeting or pause. I don't have a bracelet but I'll take my breath. Slow it down. Three seconds, set an intention and go. So I love that and I love the visual reminder. That is amazing. And hats off to your niece who's probably not five anymore. How old is she?

Melissa: She's 28 but she's always gonna look young to me, make my little cousin.

Analiza: I'm like, you're my little cousin. You're 10 no, he's 30 stuff.

Melissa: Exactly. It took me a while to realize that when she was 21 and I found out she was able to drink. I was completely flabbergasted. It took me probably five years for me to I really feel comfortable with the situation

Analiza: Hear that. So there's a lot of Kismet, I think between you and me. And the other thing that I thought was really interesting is names. So talking about your name, and you have a one year old, right? Tell me about her name and the background there.

Melissa: So my daughter's name is Emily. Emily was also the name of my husband's younger sister, his younger sister was one of my best friends in high school, actually. And unfortunately, she passed away five years ago, due to an accident at work. And the interesting story about this, it's fairly bittersweet is that with that loss, it was the fuel, the impetus and foundation for my relationship with my husband. Emily's also, by the way, the name of my mother, who I consider one of the greatest heroines in the entire universe. And so to be able to call her Emily, with two really important women in our lives just made a lot of sense. And it's a way to continue her legacy.

Analiza: Oh, my gosh, I'm sorry about your friend. And I imagine that was hard, you were best friends since you were in high school. And this happened five years ago. So gratitude for that. Can you walk us through that? How did that work? How did that impact your relationship with your husband,

Melissa: When she passed away, it was a very difficult situation. And of course, I went to the funeral, her brother went to the funeral. I had a crush on him throughout high school. He was that really sweet, genuine person that would always open the door for anybody. He happened to be popular, I was not popular. I was known as the girl who carried her violin everywhere. First chair in orchestra. I'm still proud of it. But anyway, different groups of individuals. And he was in a relationship at the time, and I was in a relationship at the time. However, when I went to the funeral, it was like a flood of memories of how he was a gentleman and all these things that occurred to me and little did I know, something similar happened to him as well. Fast forward, it was probably three to five months after the funeral, I ended up breaking up with my boyfriend at the time, because he was purely a fuddy duddy, it just wasn't gonna work. I always give people too much the benefit of the doubt. And that's another, it's a strength, yet a weakness. And that just naturally didn't work. And apparently, his girlfriend, and their relationship naturally didn't work. We have not spoken at all. And I was out with a former colleague of mine, and we were talking and I thought about him. I said to her, and I put his name out there. I said, I think I have interest in potentially getting to know or hanging out with a man I have not spoken to or hung out with in 16 years, Matthew Goldner. And she's like, maybe do something a little bit more realistic, maybe be in the same circle of friends. I remember whatever, but I have this desire in my heart. That night, I went to bed. The next morning, I woke up, and he wrote to me on LinkedIn the night that I said his name out loud. And so I did the calculations and the math. We hadn't seen each other for 16 years since high school. If the day that he mentioned it, you know, the chances of that happening is point 0000, three, six or something like that. I do believe it was truly fate. And we exchanged numbers, and we hung out for the first time. And that was it. We ended up dating and fast forward, were married, just moved into a house last week and have a beautiful daughter named Emily, named after his younger sister.

Analiza: Oh, my gosh, Melissa, that is crazy. I mean, imagine we're sitting at a bar, and you're like, Hey, I'm interested in this guy who I've never talked to for 16 years. And then he emails you LinkedIn messages you the next day? That's, I don't know. That's like it is these weird alignment pieces where I also believe that when you put that out there, the universe responds. I know that sounds so Whoo. And not something I learned in business school or really from many people.

Melissa: The fact that you started a company that's focused on Boss Mamas, and I saw the email go out, and I wrote back and said, Hey, I actually have a bracelet, we should probably talk. I think this was meant to be as well, and I could feel it when I talked to you. I believe it totally too.

Analiza: I do too. So most of one thing that really has come to me when we've been talking is just how these terrible things happen. And most people, I mean, most normal people when terrible things happen. We stick with it, right? Why did God or why is the universe giving me this really bad hand? It's terrible. I'm really sad. And yet, you've had a few or have some pretty hard experiences, even starting back when you're a kid, I'd love to share more about that.

Melissa: The best way to describe it is that I have a very strong why and a very strong purpose. And the rationale behind why that is and why it's so strong is due to the situations that occurred when I was either in my childhood or early adulthood. So there were two situations that occurred that really created an imprint in my life. The first is, I was raped. And the second one, I was sexually abused by my Asian piano teacher. So both of them really created a situation, one, which was a moment in time, and the other one was a prolonged period of time, which in a sense, I feel like is even worse, because I saw the piano teacher every single week. But it created a time where I was feeling very lost, very angry, very frustrated. But being raised in a very Asian, very conservative Christian family, you're taught to kind of keep your mouth shut or not complain, otherwise, you'd be a burden upon your family members or a burden on your friends. Also, as part of my culture, it was all about a kind of respect for your elders, so respect for your teachers, right respect for anybody that's older than you respecting hierarchy. So given that my piano teacher was a teacher of mine, he was also Asian. So we shared similar cultural values, I really now understand how I was taken advantage of based upon that, as you know, my upbringing, but he would, he was sick, I was probably a preteen, and not even developed or fully developed as far and he would try to touch my undeveloped areas, my breast area or my butt and tell me that, in order to be talented, and piano, we had to keep this between us, you know, and I always felt like there was something wrong about that, like something that feel or sit right. But because we were taught to respect our elders, I was conflicted with these different types of messaging. So it occurred week over week, he would send my parents upstairs, so we could focus on my talent. And he would play these weird games with me where he would take a pencil and put his hand over it and ask me to hit his hand. And if I didn't hit his hand, I would hit the top of the pencil, just very weird experiences. But these experiences really made me feel like I didn't have a voice, I didn't have the opportunity to speak up, I was afraid I was going to get disowned, what if my family wasn't going to forgive me? What if they thought it was my fault. And because of that, it's really created this purpose of mine, that I am here to really uplift and find the voices of the unsung heroes and heroines, and also uplift and amplify the voices of people in historically marginalized groups, especially around women.

Analiza: You and I share that passion and I really appreciate you being vulnerable and sharing that story. I too, had a piano teacher and I actually have a piano teacher for my kids. And you know, it's such a tiny New York apartment, so I'm not sent anywhere to, you know, not watch what's going on. But how many years of this go on. How old were you - 10,12?

Melissa: I was around 10 to 12. And I think I had the lessons for at least for two to three years, maybe even more. It's all fuzzy to me, because I don't actually think about it very often for a while. And finally, I told my mother that I just didn't want to continue with piano because I want to focus on violin. I was able to leverage my cultural norms and expectations to get out of a really unhealthy situation. Fast forward, they now know about it and have explored whether or not this piano teacher did the same thing to other children at the time and we haven't seen any other reports but I felt like it was my responsibility to say something in case there were others that were victimized to this type of behavior.

Analiza: I completely hear that Melissa. As an Asian American Filipino myself you're seen not heard, we're obedient. That's a good girl thing to do. To even raise your hand to say an elder did something wrong. It's just not done and who the bad person will be is probably the person who even said anything. So tons of just bravery for even raising your hand and in trying to have that conversation with your mom because you did you have that conversation. You try to have that conversation other than I want to focus on violin or that was just, I'm gonna be quiet the whole time.

Melissa: I was quiet the whole time because I was so fearful of potentially being disowned in a very conservative and Christian family. There's a lot of judgment that occurs even within a church, and I was really scared. I wanted the support system that I had, and I was scared that I wasn't going to have a support system if I spoke up. It wasn't until I was in college where I actually volunteered as a rape counselor, and I was seeing these young girls getting raped by multiple people at a time. I was there to really showcase what their rights were. And I think some of that was helpful, based upon my experience that was I was never judgmental, there were a lot of individuals that tried to push these new victims to report or do all these different things. And a lot of the counselors I found were actually molested or raped in their past. This was one of the ways that they we’re healing. I didn't realize I was healing during the process. But I would say as an end product, it did help me find my voice. When I saw time and time and time again, all these girls come into the hospital and feel like their voices were taken away, someone was willing to report somewhere, and they were the ones that gave me the strength to do it. I was probably triple their age at the time. So they were the inspiration that actually humby sit across my mother, and tell her about both the rape and the sexual abuse that occurred earlier on in my childhood.

Analiza: Wow, it's amazing that the service you're providing was actually the journey that you needed to heal, to help them heal actually helped you heal. So let's go back because I want to go to that conversation with your mom and your parents. And so you get this creepy violin teacher. And meanwhile, you also mentioned another terrible incident that happened. Can share a little bit more that?

Melissa: Sure, the other one was I was raped in high school and was very difficult because I wasn't popular by any means. I mentioned before, I was always known as the girl who would carry her violin and got walked to elementary school by her grandpa, you know, every single day. So I was always the Asian girl with the violin. Additionally, I was one of the only Asian girls or Asian people that grew up in a predominantly all white community, and very Catholics, in Sesame Street, where they show three oranges in the banana, and the banana, it was like very obviously, which one doesn't belong, you know, in fact, people giggle about it now, but I was actually put in English as a second language class, because when I went to school and saw that I looked like I had black hair, and everybody else had blond hair or red hair that I didn't belong. So I didn't speak even though I knew English very well. And they put me in English as a second language class with one other fellow Asian student. And I was like, This is what you do, you take this apple, you move in here, and they realize that I was an imposter. I didn't belong there. But my father actually, ironically, was so ashamed that I was in a class that required more support, so that I would better assimilate, I understand their intentions. But unfortunately, I can only understand Chinese when spoken to me, but I have to respond in English. I can't pick the words from my brain and be able to speak.

Analiza: My parents were trying to help me and wanted me to assimilate as well. So I spoke English, and my parents spoke English to me. And it was only until my parents started talking behind my brother and my back about what we're doing or whatever code I started to really learn. Whenever I try to talk in Filipino, it's just a jumble of words, but I can understand so I'm working on working on it right now. Now I’m learning that language to get much better. So anyway, there's hope for us.

Melissa: I'm so sorry, I didn't answer your question. So being part of a really predominantly Asian family. If you picture it, I was carrying that violin, I was that person that didn't, wasn't surrounded widely with friends. And then I was raped by a very, very popular, older than me, football player. When it even occurred, and I did tell a small amount of friends of mine in my group, even some of them didn't even believe me, because they thought to themselves, why wouldn't she want to have sex with this popular guy. And so in a sense, due to our differences in terms of our popularity, status, the belief in what occurred. I really struggled with that. I even questioned myself and that was also another reason why I did speak to my family members, my mother, my father about it, because I questioned how I'm treated even with my friends that it could also be my fault. So it was this guilt. And it took many, many years. And I would say it took until the years when I was in college, helping other rape victims, to terms with what occurred with myself,

Analiza: Oh, my gosh, I can't imagine that you're also petite and this boy, this football player is a lot bigger than you and to have just protested and said no. Then later try to talk to your friends about it and not even feel heard or valued for the bravery you're taking to share.

Melissa: It was a very lonely place. And you mentioned before where, when a bad situation can happen, people are like, why did God do this to me, or you have a lot of anger, those questions did come in my head, I was very upset. I created a moment where I ended up realizing that all these friends, I thought that I had these handful of friends when this occurred, only two people really checked up on me on a day to day basis. So I'm so grateful now. Because one of those life cysts, those natural friends, where you realize who your real people are, and who are the people that should be in your life far. And that occurred really, really early because of the situation that happened. However, I am so grateful now that earlier on in my life, I was able to figure out who were my core people that are still my core people now, and not waste any time and energy on all the others that weren't my real friends, they were more superficial friends. So things happen for a reason, I just didn't understand that at the time.

Analiza: Things happen for a reason. It's hard to think about that when you're getting, we're feeling so lonely, and people aren't hearing you and some terrible things have happened. And to have that belief that things do happen for a reason. It's a huge thing that I also practice. In Boss Mamas we talked about this. So let's go to that moment that Melissa, you're helping these rape victims, and you're helping them heal, but also you're healing yourself. And you find that you want to have this conversation with your parents. So talk to us about that. What does that look like?

Melissa: So one of the things that I mentioned earlier was as part of my culture, we didn't want to burden other people. And one of the reasons why I may not have spoken up about it was because I didn't want to burden people with all the fields, you know that was going on and the guilt. By the time I was in college, I had healed. It was a very interesting thing. Because this is interesting. So I decided to get baptized very late in my life. I actually thought about getting baptized much younger. I'm a granddaughter of a very famous pastor. And my father also used to speak at church. So the fact that I took up to my late 20s, I think I was 27 years old and decided to get baptized was a huge deal. The reason why I mentioned this is because when I was 27 years old, and I got baptized, it was all about forgiveness. It was about forgiving the church, it was about forgiving. The person who raped me was about forgiving the person that was the piano teacher who sexually molested me weak and weak and weak. And the best way to describe it was that when I got baptized, and it was all about forgiveness, these shackles were released, like, this weight that I was carrying on my shoulders was all released. Ironically, the night that I got baptized, the guy who raped me tried to add me as a friend on Facebook. Okay, the night the night just like the night I mentioned, you know, my husband's name to my friend and colleague was a night he messaged me on LinkedIn. Okay, so I'm like, God, are you serious? I called him JC Jesus Christ. I'm like JC, like, I just got baptized tonight, okay, Can you wait one week before you, you know, tap on someone's shoulder to ask me to be a friend and test, you know, my forgiveness. And I thought to myself, well, I forgave. And I click Yes. And that guy has completely changed his life and has dedicated his life to helping others, has dedicated his life to Christ, and is helping others find their purpose in life and things like that. And I realize people can change and the person that he was before he was transformed, is likely not the person he is anymore. And the release. And the forgiveness is actually something I think is a secret sauce to be able to live a life of freedom and with fulfillment, because if I ever allowed any of the perpetrators in my past life, to influence the person that I am today to make me Miss trust, others are not joining in relationships, because I'm afraid of getting hurt or afraid, you know, then they want, but I never allowed them to win. And so, in a sense, I just feel like forgiveness is one of my secret sauces that has really helped me find that fulfillment in my life. I missed whatever has happened in the past.

Analiza: Oh my gosh, that's so powerful, Melissa. I can imagine that you're even in that pain, and I'm imagining you with the rape victims and helping them process that you're processing and you're seeing Did you know back then that forgiveness would be releasing the shackles? How did you embrace forgiveness as the thing before you did it?

Melissa: I can't really put my finger on it. When I was in college. I didn't realize it was all about forgiving. It was all about for me to accept it was about acceptance. It was about acceptance more so than forgiveness, accepting my past and understanding that as actually allowed me to be a better rape counselor than many others, people said. Many people that have not maybe experienced the things that I experienced in life that tried to be rape counselors, many of them actually can't stomach a lot of the things that occur, because when you're raped, and you go to a hospital, they basically molest you, again, the doctors are taking photos of your naked body, they're plucking hairs off your butt, you've already gone through a traumatic experience. And now you're going through another traumatic experience with lights and all these people and these suits coming in and coming out. It's not a very personal, warm situation, and you don't often feel like you have a lot of support. But I feel like they kept telling me, Melissa, for some reason, you're able to have so much calm in the middle of chaos. I think it was because I had those experiences before I had been in their shoes. So I was able to sit with them at their level with no judgment. I didn't try to push them to report, I sat with them. And I said, here are some facts. These are some options. But I'm here with you with regards to whatever you decide to do. Because whatever happened to you was not your fault. And you can heal whatever way you need to. And it helped me understand the intersectionality of different people's perspectives. And I think that's helped me to be a better leader today. Is that not everything's just black and white, there are people that if they were to tell their family, they would have been disowned, yeah, there are cultures out there that if someone was raped, and they found out, they would be killed, the person that was raped would be killed, because it was not an honor. You know, it was a dishonor to the family. And I think it was one of those realizations at that time that I realized, wow, I missed all these things that have occurred in my past, and I miss what I'm doing right now counseling, another person that's going through this, there are other people in the world that have a lot worse, that don't have a voice that don't have the ability to speak up. So let me take that and create it into courage, and have that conversation with my parents. And it was my adulthood. I was in college.

Analiza: Thank you for sharing. I'm now taking that forgiveness, which is so powerful, and acceptance and forgiveness. And now you're having this conversation with your parents. How did that go?

Melissa: So my father, he graduated MIT two years in high school, two years, he's very smart. And we used to have more of a business kind of education relationship versus a feelings relationship. So I was really shocked that when I told him this, he was the one who viscerally or showcased the hardest time he had to get off the phone and take a couple of days for him to even reorient. I felt comfortable finally, at that time talking to them because I had healed so I didn't feel like I was asking them to do anything. And little did I know that they were going to be brokenhearted. Because of the news. When I told my mother, it was very different eating lunch, and I was discussing with her that I would love to tell her something, you know, that's occurred in my life. And I mentioned that I was raped, and I was sexually abused. And she was just silent, like we continued having our meal. And I was getting so frustrated. I was like, give me some emotion. You know, I'm finally telling you this. But she showed me in different ways. So I remember this, because in my Asian family, whenever my mom brings a shopping, I usually have to bring my own wallet, you know, even as a kid, like, do you want to go to the mall, bring your wallet, we went across the street to I think it was a lemons and things and if my mother did buy me anything, in the past, it was on sale. But there was a lamp, and it was $99. And it wasn't on sale. And my mom got it for me. And I think she was trying to showcase her way of love. I'm sorry that this happened when she wasn't able to fully articulate it.

Analiza: So I want to talk about how as a mama, this influences you raising Emily. And these are really personal things right to share. So what's your vision as a boss, mom as a mama to Emily, what are you in? Of course, you're trying to lift up the voices for all marginalized women. But what are you trying to model or share with your daughter as you do this, you know, important work.

Melissa: So while I was pregnant with her, it was the middle of COVID. You know, I had her still during COVID, I had been recruited potentially by Google and profit consulting, and Profit consulting offered me a partner level position. So really scary, I felt like it was leap frogs away from what I was doing. But I would say because I had Emily, I wanted more than ever to lead by example, and really lean in and reach for the stars, when provided an opportunity. I really, truly in my gut, believe that you will learn when you put yourself in situations that you may not always feel comfortable, and you may be a little bit afraid of, but because, you know, I had her looking at me with her beautiful bright eyes, I realize, okay, she gave me the strength to be able to, you know, say yes, except in the middle of a global pandemic, where I haven't even met many people face to face thus far. But she's given me that strength to really be able to lean in.

Analiza: It's amazing and not only lean in, but you negotiated without, like, not passively. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Melissa: Yeah, so I've been really, really privileged and honored and lucky to have access to a plethora of badass women, C suite level people in a program called Women in America. It's a women's leadership program where connected with other women that want to create the next generation of women, yours, right? And one of them taught me when I was at my last company, I had gotten a promotion and the reason why I have quotes like this is because it was more work for the cost of inflation. And that's what actually my mentor said to me, she goes, you didn't get a promotion, she's like you got a title to do more work with the cost, you would normally get inflation. Go back to your boss and say that the next day, I'll talk to you at four o'clock. I was like, excuse me, she's like, go to your boss and tell them that contact me this afternoon. Let me know how it goes. I was like, No way, there's no way as an Asian woman who grew up with my cultural norms. Also, as a recovering people pleaser, these are not discussions that you have, you don't negotiate, you accept, you know, and she gave me the accountability to have that discussion. I remember it very, very well, I was sweating. I felt like I was gonna faint, I kept laughing like, I'm gonna throw up, I'm gonna throw up. I think I even said that in the conversation was my boss at the time. But I mentioned that this wasn't a promotion. This was more work for the cost of inflation. I said those words. And at the time, they said that there wasn't anything they could do about it. But then I ended up getting paid the highest bonus. So of the practice. So that gave me the understanding and realization that if you don't ask for it, you're not going to get it. And so fast forward, as long as negotiating this Profit offer, I've more than doubled my salary. I was an owner of stock in my last company, which you don't know, you're not given the promise that you're going to get it back. So Profit was able to pay that and the last thing I asked for was, I want North America a president who happens to be an Asian woman, the first Asian woman in my entire career that I see has an executive leadership position in a company of seven companies I've worked with in my entire career. I said this is important. I want her to be my executive sponsor. I said to the executive recruiter, wonderful offer, thank you so much, but I would like this woman to be my executive sponsor, the president. He's like, Oh, we could try, we could try most likely. Most likely it's not going to cut it. If you could get me a yes in writing. I will put pen to paper on the offer. 30 minutes later, I got the offer with her as my executive sponsor.

Analiza: I love it. Melissa, not only are you speaking up, but you're speaking for what you want. And Emily's learning if you don't speak up like how is she going to speak up? Right now she's saying her mama is a boss mama that allows her to then to go even further.

Melissa: So I know I should get my cousin to write make her another bracelet for my baby

Analiza: That's awesome. All right, with that I want to just share if we break down these strategies for Boss Mama. Turning breakdowns into breakthroughs, and just trusting those horrible moments that there's a reason and then second interrupting the cycle that it could be generational. But we have the power to interrupt, and not only interrupt for, you know, our past, but make things better for our kids. And if we don't even put ourselves out there those requests? How are we able to get more and get more of what we want? So would you add anything to those kinds of notifications of what you shared?

Melissa: I would just say, you could apply that also in the workplace, if the systems are broken, create new systems. One of the things that I take pride in is, when I'm looking at an organization looking at a client, I actually have the opportunity to reshape how a system could potentially work. So how can we create a system that elevates those voices in a way that it's not a nice to have, it's something that's always happening and the foundation of what makes a system successful?

Analiza: Love it system changes, not just with ourselves, but the entire organization, which is great. Alright, with that, let's do some fun. I know we've been really heavy in this, but let's do some fun lightning round questions. First one is chocolate or vanilla.

Melissa: Hmm. vanilla ice cream, but chocolate if it's solid. Right?

Analiza: Cooking or takeout?

Melissa: I love cooking. I find it very cathartic. My husband's more the takeout person. So we compromise sometimes, but cooking for me.

Analiza: Climb a mountain or jump from a plane?

Melissa: Um, you know what? I've done both. I think that climbing a mountain is because jumping from a plane is so short. And you don't put in that much work except jump.

Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Melissa: No. Nor will I.

Analiza: How would you rate your karaoke skills on a scale of one to 10, 10 being Mariah Carey?

Melissa: Oh, hmm. I would say five, six. My karaoke skills are higher in the shower than they are in public.

Analiza: Okay, what's a recent book you read?

Melissa: I'm going to botch the title but something about life and transitions. And it's talking about how life doesn't necessarily have to be vertical moves, that there could be lateral moves and different. It's more of a lattice where things happen for a reason that you don't have to historically just look up and go up.

Analiza: What's your favorite way to practice self care?

Melissa: I love massages, and I love cooking, and family time.

Analiza: What's a good professional development you've done?

Melissa: I recently got accepted into this program called see ahead. And it is a program that helps women become future C suite level individuals. So it teaches you the power of networking in a way that's authentic to yourself, it teaches you negotiation, it teaches you all these different critical skill sets that I wish I had learned in high school.

Analiza: What's your definition of a boss mama?

Melissa: Authentic, I think a boss mama is a person that creates their own metrics of what success looks like. And you know, being able to live by those and not letting go of your value system in the process.

Analiza: What advice would you give to your younger self?

Melissa: I would say forgiveness is really powerful. And I'm looking forward to you understanding the power of it, and how it creates fulfillment within your life later on.

Analiza: Where can we find you like LinkedIn or anywhere else?

Melissa: Yes, LinkedIn. And then I also have a community Facebook page called communication strategies for women in the workplace. So I just post articles that I've read, and then create a summary with five bullets, so if people don't have a lot of time, they could just read the five bullets and hopefully walk away with a tidbit that makes her life a little bit easier.

Analiza: Great. And last question, Melissa, do you have a final ask recommendation or any parting thoughts for the audience?

Melissa: I guess my parting thought would be to trust the process that our feelings are completely valid, you know, feel those feelings. don't shove them down because you are human. And it's natural to feel those feelings. But once you do recognize that sometimes it does take time to realize, you know that there might be a lesson learned or a little nugget of wisdom that comes through your experience and sometimes you just have to wait for it.

Analiza: Beautiful. Melissa, thank you so much for this conversation. I really enjoyed it. I really appreciate your vulnerability and grateful to you. Thank you.

Melissa: All right, take care.

Analiza: Thank you so much for carving out time today to hear today's podcast. Three things before you go. First, if you found it helpful, please leave a five star review. Second, please share with someone else. You can share the link and posts on Facebook and say check it out. Lastly, I want to thank you for being a listener and you can go to get a free self care bonus called juice your joy at analizawolf.com/free bonus. Thank you so much.