Analiza: Welcome to the Women of Color Rise Podcast. I'm Analiza Quiroz Wolf, proud Asian American mom of two, and former CEO of a nonprofit and Captain in the US Air Force. I'm on a mission to support having more diverse leaders at the table. We'll be talking with successful CEOs and C suite women leaders of color and learning about their leadership journeys. If you're a woman or woman of color, who wants a seat at the table, you're in the right place. Now let's get into today's show.

I'm excited to be talking today with Jessica Santana. She's one of the co-founders and CEO of America on tech. It's an organization focused on decreasing the racial wealth gap by creating pathways into careers in technology. Before American on Tech, she worked in technology as a consultant for brands like Deloitte. She was named to so many lists, but a couple are Forbes 30 under 30 and the New York Nonprofit Media 40 under 40 Rising Stars lists. She's spoken with over 100 audiences, including Google for Entrepreneurs, the White House and Bloomberg from Syracuse University. She graduated with a degree in Accounting and Information Technology. And she also got her executive education degree at Columbia. So without further ado, Jessica, it's so great to have you. Thanks for joining us.

Jessica: Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Analiza: So Jessica, how does your identity and your upbringing shape who you are today? Jessica: I'm a very proud Puerto Rican woman who was born in Brooklyn, New York. I'm a New York Rican, especially for those who are very familiar with the term I also identify as a Latinx. Woman. And I also identify as an Afro Latinx woman recognizing the diaspora and how it has shaped many of my cultural beliefs, many of the rituals and the practices and my family practices, were also honoring my grandmother, who is a black woman. And I think for me, I also identify as a daughter of, you know, the thing that, you know, dinos played a huge role. But on a regular day, you can find me identifying as Afro Latinx, Puerto Rican woman from Brooklyn, New York.

Analiza: That's so full and beautiful, because there's this recognition that we come from so many ancestors who have succeeded in many ways, and also had failures that helped shape us. So I appreciate that history. And I want to get into just how that shaped your choices in life, because you followed a bit of a traditional path, but then you went big. I mean, it wasn't like, let's take the next baby step, you started your own organization, which is now national, and had a huge impact during COVID. So can you share that connection between your background and these life choices?

Jessica: Growing up in eastern New York, there weren't after school programs, a lot of times they weren't there, they didn't have the capacity to serve all of the students who were living there. I also first hand saw what interaction with the police looked like. I saw what gun violence looked like in my communities where we started out as a class of 118. And by senior year, only 54 of us graduated. And only about 18 of us actually went off to pursue a two year or four year college university degree program, just to ask yourself a lot of questions as to how did I get here and get so many people where I'm from don't have the opportunities to do the same thing? You know, what are the systemic barriers that leaves people out of the spaces that I'm currently occupying? When I started my career in the private sector working in tech, it became very evident to me that I had entered a phase in my life where I did everything that I was supposed to do, in order to get a good paying job that could lead towards economic empowerment for myself and for future generations. But in that moment, when you're sitting in your cubicle, and you're looking around you and no one else looks like you. And you know, you talk to HR, and they say that there are not a lot of black and Latinx people that they can hire because they're just not interested in tech or and then you're having conversations with your best friend who was from where you're from, who's experiencing a series of microaggressions in his workplace, while you also are experiencing microaggressions in your workplace as a woman and as a person of color. You start to ask yourself even bigger questions like, oh, it's not that I just got here by happenstance like they are narratives and beliefs that don't challenge systems to change in order for the creation of opportunities for people that look like you to actually come into the space. And so it's not just that you were the lucky one, it's just that the system is actually working, and is designed in such a fashion that leaves you and your people out, as you continue to climb up this ladder, you have to lift as you climb. And so, you know, out of this sense of frustration that we were not seeing people that look like us in this industry. And at the same time, seeing the growth of technology happening in New York City and seeing really big companies in New York City be centered right next to subsidize housing, where there is a myriad of amazing young people, we said no, like the proximity of these companies, in close proximity to the students and the communities that we care about, it's not justified, that they're not talking to each other, and that this pipeline of talent can actually go and thrive in these spaces as well. And we should not create an environment where students are from, you know, places that they can thrive in because of lack of opportunity. We took that grief, and we really channeled it into what is now America on tech, what we've learned is that genius is equally distributed. Opportunity is not narratives that are incorrect about our communities plague, you know, the opportunity for us to create more opportunities. And there are real policies and systems in place that really prohibit young people of color, specifically black and Latin X people from achieving their highest and fullest potential, as they seek to build skills that have the opportunity to empower them economically.

Analiza: There are many pieces to what you shared, where I want to unpack it. And a few that come to mind is this idea of narratives, because the narratives are fed to us, and so much so that they become beliefs, beliefs, not just with white people, but about ourselves. And so I'd love to unpack that, Jessica, because sometimes we don't even know what we were fed. It's wrong. And so can you tell me, what are myths that you believed or even people from backgrounds similar to ours, people of color tend to believe that really are not true?

Jessica: Before entering college, I used to believe that through hard work and dedication, I could make something of myself. And if I worked hard, and I applied myself, and I did what I had to do, and I pursued education and I got the grades, there was no way that I would fail, because we have a system based on meritocracy. And so if I worked hard and excelled, then I would be supported by the system. And that's the first narrative that I told myself, that was incorrect. Because once I got into my university program, I realized that I was sitting next to peers who were from economically prosperous communities that did not work that hard to actually get to the place where I was, and that they had access to things like their mother and father's being legacies to the university, who could pay their ways into accessing this college campus where I actually had to put in an a massive amount of work in order for me to even get there. So I think the first mistake was that it's not about working hard. For us. It's about money. So when I think about like, that first narrative shift for me was like, wait, I worked so hard to be here. And you still don't think that I deserve to be here. But you didn't work hard at all to be here, you actually paid your way through here because of some kind of connection of some sort. I told myself that money matters. So my mind was like, I was like, Okay, I need to set myself up to make sure that like after I graduate school, that I get a high paying job, because if they didn't work that hard, and they all they did was actually had mom and dad donate in order to get into the university, then that means that I need to make sure that I center my influence on building capital so that I can like access things and make it easier for my children in some way or form to be able to take advantage of institutions and programs and ACT prep and all these things that I didn't have access to that seemingly they had access to thing.

The second thing that I learned was that was really false and incorrect ways that companies truly care about diversity, equity and inclusion. You know, when you are a young person and you're on a pursuit of a career, and you start to do research, right around companies, usually they have access to a landing page that says these are commitments to inclusion, and you read them. And you're really robust. When I got to, you know, my first job, I was under the impression that many people care, everyone around me shared that same value of caring about diversity, equity and inclusion. And then I got there and I realized, like, wait, what I missed the ball on was that I didn't actually understand that this was just a landing page that said that diversity, equity inclusion was important. But the values and the systems that are actually permeated within the structure of this organization does not make it inclusive. For a woman like me, a Puerto Rican woman, it does not make it inclusive. Because when I look at the leadership level, there are no Latinos, there are very few black people. When I look at, you know, even middle management, like, I don't see, I've never had a manager of color, I rarely had a person of color, who was a colleague, or appeared in the organization. For me, as someone who values practice, then that means that my narrative shift was, I need to become more critical about the workspaces that I decide to engage in and make sure that I highly vet the kinds of places that I want to be because their narrative was strong enough to convince me that I should be here. And then once I got here, I realized I was not going to succeed.

And then maybe the third narrative shift was around a belief in myself that, regardless of where I'm from, I can achieve the same level of success as anybody else. Because there was a sense of imposter syndrome, especially when my entrepreneurial journey started, where I didn't see a lot of people that looked like me. And I didn't see a lot of people who reflected my story. And I also, a lot of times, was looking for that as a sense of validation to believe that I belonged and to believe that I deserve to be an entrepreneur, and that I deserved to make a difference for my community. And so the narrative shift went from Jessica, you don't have to feel like you don't belong here. What you can now become is the person that you are not looking for for somebody else. So those are the three things that I think we're really important for me to learn and shift in terms of narratives along the way.

Analiza: This meritocracy con, it's pervasive. And sometimes I think you and I are both in education, that we feed our kids, that you work hard, you can make your dreams come true. And we want to say that and we want to make good on it. But the reality is that it's not true. And how do we set them up so that they have enough confidence that when imposter syndrome may strike, they can recognize it and be like you, which is I don't see it, therefore I will be it, I can do it. And I know how to build relationships, ask for help to find my community so that I can get through these microaggressions, be able to name it and know that they're still worthy, and dreams are possible. So I want to share that first idea. And then the second piece of organizations by branding themselves as diversity, equity inclusion and believing it because it's so darn snazzy, and the pictures and the people that they have met you. You want to believe it. So I'm curious, you mentioned vetting? Because that's a process that people don't explain. They look for a title, whether it works with your career goals, and there's no well, here's the following of a brown person, a woman of color, and here are ways in which you will actually feel safe. So I'm curious, what would come to your mind as here's some guidance that I would use going forward. If I were trying to assess an organization.

Jessica: I would ask myself as a candidate, am I looking for a place that values diversity, equity and inclusion? Or am I looking for a place that values justice and liberation? I believe that diversity, equity and inclusion is important. I also believe that there are corporate terms that we use to make people comfortable and Diversity, Equity and Inclusion feel like those terms. To me, what I'm fighting for in this stage of my career and in my life is justice and liberation, which means how do we become free of systems that are intended to oppress us? What am I actually looking for from a workplace like Am I looking for just, you know, a representation of people because that is diversity? Am I looking for an organization that is inclusive, because, you know, inclusion can look like I have an affinity group. And, you know, I can meet other people at the organization that look like me. And inclusion could also look like you know how your manager brings your voice to the table.

But you don't always want to be able to gauge if you're still a candidate, what do these terms mean to you, and then tying behaviors of an organization to those terms to determine whether or not like they actually are not paying lip service. You can't say that you care about diversity, for example, if we bought 98% of our workforce is 98%. White, right? If you care about diversity, like I expect a certain number, and you have to figure out what number that is, of people in your organization identifying as people of color. I care about inclusion, like I want to know what voices are at the leadership level, that are making decisions, who owns the profit and loss statements, who are just key decision makers in the organization strategy and where the organization's dollars or resources go.

And I think the third thing, if I care about equity, it's like, well, what are the things that they are doing internally to build a culture that is like anti racist, and a culture that makes me feel like they are going to go to bat for me to get the resources that I need pacifically and not resources that are just given to everybody, because true equity looks like meeting me where I'm at, you know, what I mean, equality looks like just giving everybody access to resources. And I don't know that I want everyone's resources, I want resources and the skills and the opportunities that are going to advance me specifically, because I'm an individual at this organization that has a very different paths than anyone else. Right. And that's, and then on the justice and liberation piece, which is what I'm looking for is an organization that is really committed to fighting systems of oppression, really committed to building an anti racist culture, putting the design back on the people to help them to design processes of any systems and not just creating systems on behalf of Communities. And our deliberation piece is making sure that they have liberatory design mindsets that are very considerate, intentional in the way that they see freedom for people who look like me. So I think if you are a candidate vetting, you know, opportunities in the organization, you really got to think about what these terms mean to you, and then tie them back to behaviors that you think will justify that these things and elements actually live within the institution you're trying to pursue the shift to justice and liberation.

Analiza: Was there like an aha moment for you, Jessica?

Jessica: That said, Nope, I'm done with that. I want and seek and I'm working to break. I mean, looking, this is not like a passive thing, justice and liberation. The breaking point for me was like 2019, you know, I had spent five years at that point on various panels on the area's speaking engagements, conferences, saying the same thing over and over again, diversity is important. Equity is important. Inclusion is important. And when you're saying the same thing over and over again, over the course of five years, and then you still see very little progress, you tend to ask yourself, well, what is not changing? And why have I been saying the same thing for five years, and you're not changing? And there was one particular panel discussion that I participated in, where, you know, there were fellow panelists who said, like, I do think that my company cares about equity and inclusion, and then they could not justify why they believe that. And at that point, I couldn't even justify why I was sitting on that panel, trying to promote diversity in tech. And I think it was the moment where I realized that I'm not doing any speaking engagements anymore. I'm not joining any panels, no conferences, nothing. So I spent many months turning down speaking engagements, podcasts and everything, because I needed to get clear on why this value that I thought I had was no longer of value. And a lot of it had to do with the little bit of progress that I felt like I was making, even though I kept saying the same thing over and over again to audiences who were the decision makers and they were not doing anything to change things. And so that was my breaking point when I realized like, I couldn't even justify myself why I cared about this. And then I realized like, oh, Jessica, it's not that you ever cared about diversity, equity inclusion, it's like you actually cared about equal opportunity for people. And the reason why this does not resonate with you anymore is because if in five years, the industry has not changed a lot of its policies, you're not thinking about hiring from your perspective, numbers are not changing, there are not more, you know, executives than there were five years ago, then it's because the systems that you want to change and want to affect are not conducive. And so that means that I'm trying to build things and change things that are already living on a shaky foundation. And so if I really believe in this change, then that means that I have to believe that we have to be okay with dismantling the system and rebuilding from scratch. Because when you build things from a shaky foundation, all you're doing is adding patches to the problem, which eventually bandaids fall off. And so I would rather have a system now that is based on making sure that we rebuild things from scratch, because I think we have an opportunity to bring the voices that we need to the table and have a unique design process that involves everyone that's going to be affected by the system that we're trying to eat. And that can only in my mind, be achieved through liberatory design, and through an equitable approach to creating systems, which in my mind, justice and liberation.

Analiza: I have grappled with this question, Jessica, to say, as you know, I've worked in large charter management organizations. And there's a lot of talk about diversity, equity inclusion, the move from no excuses, as you know, actually started a school in Brownsville, a no excuses school, and I'm declaring that was many things I learned, including mistakes I made in trying to do it to people versus with people. And I am reflecting on this idea that it's hard to patch. And an organization as well intentioned as it is, especially run, frankly, by mostly white people. But I'm curious, as you see the different ways people are making changes, placing more attention to the existing systems and finding ways to patch or we need to start from more entrepreneurial new ways, new community oriented ways.

Jessica: I think we need both, it's for me my mind, like, if I had a preference that we start from scratch, because I'm about giving time and giving things, the wheels that they need at the beginning stages in order to build something that is meaningful, sustainable, and long lasting and impactful. I also do believe right, that the systems, they can't just go away, like we can't just dismantle and just like go away real fast, because that can also cause a lot of chaos. But I think that what we can do is start chipping away at the system. So eventually it goes away. So I think of this as like a bag of ice where we have to start chipping at things and start dismantling little by little, where eventually that ice bag will no longer be in existence. But that requires time and energy and resources. And it also requires an intersectional approach, right? Because some of the systems that I'm talking about have to be chipped away to policy, some of it has to be chipped away through like people leaving seats that they should no longer be in like this should not be lifetime appointments of anything. In my mind, I think some of those systems also have to do with money, and who gets access to the money and then you know, should no longer get access to the money. And I do recognize that that isn't like that is going to be a long journey. And so I think for me, I think we need both. I think we need new models, new intervention, new creation, new innovations and new ideas to really achieve what we're looking for in our world. But I also believe that in the process of like really cultivating and feeding and nurturing and grounding these ideas that we can also play an active role in dismantling the system little by little so that when we start dismantling those systems, if there were resources that were there, then that we can reallocate to the new intervention, then we've absolutely been able to do that. So that's the way that I think about it. In my mind. I think there has to be a dual approach and I think it has to take place simultaneously. And I think it's messy. And I think it's something that requires very visionary thinking and when people are part of it day to day. I mean all they're trying to do is care for themselves and their families. Guns in houses, something like this can't be a priority. But like for me, I think that it just requires it to happen both at the same time. And it's not an either or it's and and

Analiza 25:12 Can you talk about America on Tech, and being the change, creating an organization that is just and liberatory?

Jessica: For us, our focus has been on decreasing the racial wealth gap. And the reason why we have this focused on bridging economics is because we really believe that when you empower communities with the financial resources to be able to back the politicians that were looking forward to sit in office to build the businesses that they want to see in their local community to pay for basic resources, we've just really believed that economically empower people, you put this power into their decision making process, so that they're not operating from a space of scarcity, they're actually operating from a place of abundance. And when you have the opportunity to operate from a place of abundance, your level of thinking becomes limitless, because you're not tying your potential to the things that you don't have, you're tying your potential to the things that you do have at your disposal. And sometimes money is the answer to solving a lot of issues. And the reason why we chose to do that, is because the opportunity is really in technology. But if the opportunity was in something else, we would be preparing students for something else. But the reason why we're preparing students for jobs and technology is because this is the highest growing industry in our country, you know, there is a starting salary. For one software engineer, it's more than two times of black and Latin X household income combined. So they're starting salaries in technology that are at $88,000. The average Latinx household income combined, it's around like $67,000. Combined mind, why the national level. And I believe that, for me, when I think about the amount of jobs that are being created within this industry.

I also think about the future work and the ability to give communities the opportunity to work from home, you know, to be and spend more time with their families. Like I really believe that this is the sector in the industry in our country where we can see the most impact and the most bang for the buck. Because technology jobs are not going anywhere. And it's not just in software engineering, you know, it is in data science, it's in you with student experience design, it is in product management, it is in digital marketing, all of these roles, they pay really well in tech. And if we have students who can master these skills, and then obtain six figure jobs where they have upwards total compensation starting salary of $250,000. And then you X that by just 100 students, let's say you just reach 100 students, that is a significant amount of money created by 100 students in just one year. I think about the racial wealth gap as the first step in tackling the problem. Because if I don't have money to each provide operate to pay my rent so that I'm not displaced from where I'm from, then I don't have the privilege a lot of times to think about things from a place of abundance in the same ways that my counterparts in economically prosperous communities can

Analiza: Jessica with you starting and now CEO of America on Tech, talk about that experience, you are the face of the organization as a leader and your identity. How has that played out with any challenges you faced? What one comes to your mind where you really were surprised that this is a challenge you're gonna have to face and how did you overcome it?

Jessica: I do have a co-founder who I love dearly, and in many ways, he is also the face of the organization and I know that like, you know, so much of our partnership is what actually has created the success story behind what we've been able to build. I think in our partnership, though, I've also seen how we as a woman, our dynamics in certain wounds absolutely are different from me than they are from him. You know, there have been times where people have mistaken him for the CEO. And even though he's the co founder, he's the president but there's something about the title of a CEO that I don't know, I think commands a level of like, respect your pedigree that oftentimes when you are in that role, but someone else is being confused to be in that role. You're like, Well, why not me and why him and he's very good at being an ally and a champion so he'll always be direct will position me in the place of power that he feels like I need To be in in that moment, but I think that like, you know, his partnership is, has been probably very grounding in the last eight years of doing this work together, because you need partners in this work. And this work can get very lonely. And I can say that because of our partnership, I've really felt lonely in this work.

And when I think about, like some of the challenges that have come along the way, I will say, you know, I come from the tech world, where there's a very big narrative right now around like, oh, you know, black and Latinx people and women, they get just a fraction of venture capital dollars. And now having moved to venture philanthropy, I'm just like, well, guess what black and Latinx, people also get a fraction of venture philanthropy dollars. And so for me, I think a lot of our challenges have been around a really stopping pattern recognition from happening when it comes to us because it is sometimes very rare for a founder to look at someone young and someone of color, and then think that they have a viable solution to a community problem. So I think that the first stage has been making sure that we demystify, and we don't become truthfully victims of pattern recognition when it comes to philanthropic decision makers when the way that they want to allocate, you know, money to our organization. And then the second challenge has been realizing that there are still people who believe in traditional nonprofit models, or like having a program, you should just do that program and you do nothing else. And so every time we go to a funder, and we're just like, well, yep, we did this program. That's what we learned about how we're innovating. For sometimes, you know, people can feel like, Oh, my God, like innovation, like, you just did this program last year. And now you want to add this to it, or Yeah, because part of listening to your community is building the support that you need within it to make sure that the program actually does what it is intended to do. You know, and we required more resources. An example of that would be in the pandemic, you know, prior to 2020, we didn't stipend students for their participation in our programs, our programs are completely free. We didn't pay the students to come in, you know, we would provide MetroCard. But that was the extent of it.

When 2020 came around, we realized that economic resilience is going to be important. And students didn't have the privilege to just show up to a program and learn. So we added a stipend model where every young person in our organization would be paid to come and learn and pending, you know, the submission of projects, then we can release payment to them for the time that they spent with us so that they're not choosing between American tech and maybe a part time job. And does that drive, you know, the program costs of our organization significantly, because when you're paying students 1000 2020 $500 per kid to learn, you can just do that with hundreds of students, it just drives up the cost. And so for some people, they were just like, well, oh, my god, like how could you add, you know, these components of the program, just by one innovation and to, you know, it's responsive to what our students actually need right now.

The third thing I'll say that was a challenge was like the nonprofit sector. So very much, you know, as much as I would like to say that, like, everyone is collaborative, it's not as collaborative, you know, that there are still people who want to, you know, get key resources, gatekeeper leadership, you know, get keep connections, and I just don't come from the frame of mind that I need to get keep anything, you know, it takes a village to raise our children, it absolutely takes collaboration to see the change that we need. And I've not been short of encounters with other leaders that feel like they can't share. And for someone who grew up with a mom, who used to cook a pot of rice, and share it with all of the projects, like it will never resonate to me that we don't want to share a lot of times out of fear that we're going to lose something in the process, when really what we're fighting for is justice for our communities. And there's no one else. There's no other sector in the world that should be collaborative, more collaborative than us. We've seen certain changes, you know, over the last two or three years, but it's very important to note that some of those changes came as a result of a black man's life, you know, ending and it should not have to get there in order for us to get here.

Analiza: The lesson from your mom about abundance having that be embedded in you, despite this narrative that Asians Latinos, blacks should be at odds and at war. It's a farce. And so I really appreciate that your mom modeled that so young and that you practice that Leadership, because it's been my experience as well that people hoard. And I'm like, What are we doing? Can we work together? Because the work is already hard, can we support each other, and there's enough room, there's enough work to do, we're going to be okay. So I appreciate you naming that. And also, it's beautiful that you have that partnership with your co-founder, it's quite lonely to be on top. And to hear you say, the journey is hard. But I've had someone who has been there throughout the journey who is quite powerful. So thanks for those both. I want to get to the personal side, Jessica, because you've worked extraordinarily hard. And there's been sacrifice along the way, I'm curious about how you have found it. I won't call them tips or tricks, but just ways in which you can still come back to yourself and take care of yourself, naming that there has been sacrifice.

Jessica: I realize now more than ever before that when I don't take care of myself, I'm actually betraying the movement, because my favorite quote, by Audrey Lord, is self care. Self Care is taking care of ourselves. It's like an act of self preservation. And as a result of that, that in itself is political warfare warfare. And so when I don't make an investment in myself, I see it as an act of betrayal to the movement. And I also see it as you know, investments in myself guarantee or return. And as a result of me getting a return, I can pour back into my community in a way that like, if I wasn't investing myself, I wouldn't be not giving from my overflow, I would be giving from a very empty cup.

And so little things that I've come to grips with is that one, I'm at a stage in my personal life, where I observe Sunday, Jessica appreciation days. So these are days where like, I'm on airplane mode all day, I'm in nature, I'm with my dog or by the water, you know, we're going hiking, or we're just taking a nice walk and grabbing some Starbucks, it also might look like getting my nails done, and maybe a massage. I don't know what it is. But Sunday's are days where you are not going to catch me between the hours of like 11am. And like 8pm, because I realized that I do my best work in silence, and my best personal work, I should say. And then I've also made sure that I prioritize taking my vacation like I was recently on vacation, or 12 days, I didn't look at my email.

Other things I'm doing for myself is normalizing luxury for black and brown girls. So that means if there's a week where I don't want to do laundry, I'm calling the laundry person, and they're gonna come and I have to pay for it, obviously. But now I have clean laundry, and I don't have to be the one to do it. There's a week where I don't want to sweep the floor and mop the floors, and I'm gonna order a TaskRabbit. And then they can come and help me out with that. Again, it's something that I have to pay for. But I realized that like, you know, those little small financial investments that you can make can make a world of difference for your mental health or you don't feel like you're piling up all these things in normalizing luxury also look like getting an executive assistant. You know, oftentimes I talk to nonprofit leaders that are so afraid to put money towards helping themselves and I'm just like, I was there. Like, I know what that looks like when you're trying to schedule meetings, talk to a board, talk to a funder clear on your email, and you have no self and my co founders, not my executive assistant, he himself is also leading projects. And so we had each other we didn't have anyone to actually, like support us in. So normalizing that, like I also deserve help at work, you know that this work doesn't just fall on me to figure it out alone is something that I've come to grips with in the last two or three years. And also I mean, hanging out with my home girls going to boozy brunches, right? Like, I love being outside and hanging out with people I love and spending time with them. And so, you know, lots of things.

You know, if you would have asked me this question five years ago, I'd have been like, take care of myself. Self care. What do you mean, I'm out here grinding? But now I realized, why am I grinding when life is short. And we've seen so much destruction and so much death and so much grief around us last two or three years where I'm just like, listen, the work required for me to get to the next level starts with me working on my own internal traumas, healing my inner child, spending time with people that I love when prioritizing my health and self care.

Analiza: So powerful. I just want to make this connection that we've been talking pretty much the whole time about justice and liberation for organizations for people, people we want to serve our community and also that you model that because often we're talking about look at all the things we give yet me I don't value myself enough to take a break. Ask for help. Take care of My community. So I just wanted to double stamp that. I love that you're modeling it. And it's also giving your people the people around you, me listening to you. Okay? I can do that too. Because you can have impact and also take care and that is revolutionary, all with each other. So thank you for that. We're gonna go to lightning round ready?

Jessica: Oh, yeah.

Analiza: Okay, chocolate or vanilla?

Jessica: Oh! Chocolate.

Analiza: Cooking or takeout?

Jessica: Takeout!

Analiza: Climb a mountain or jump from a plane?

Jessica: Jump from a plane.

Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Jessica: Yes. All the time.

Analiza 40:38 How would you rate your karaoke skills 1 to 10? 10 being Mariah Carey?.

Jessica: 1.

Analiza: What's a recent book you read?

Jessica: Radical Candor by Kim Scott.

Analiza: What's your favorite way to practice self care?

Jessica: Turning off my phone.

Analiza: What's a good professional development you’ve done?

Jessica: The culture of health leadership institute justice fellowship that I’m currently in.

Analiza: What's your definition of a Boss Mama?

Jessica: A woman that can do it all. Have it all see it and be it all

Analiza: What advice would you give your younger self?

Jessica: You'll be okay.

Analiza: And then where can we find you? Any social media handles to share?

Jessica: Yes @justworldwide on Instagram and Twitter and even LinkedIn @Americantech on Instagram and Twitter.

Analiza: And do you have a final ask recommendation or any parting thoughts to share?

Jessica: Just do it like Nike.

Analiza: Amazing. Thank you so much, Jessica. It's been a pleasure. So many amazing stories. I appreciate you.

Jessica: Thank you very much.

Analiza: Thank you so much for carving out time today to hear today's podcast. Three things before you go. First, if you found it helpful, please leave a five star review. Second, please share it with someone else. You can share the link and posts on Facebook and say check it out. Lastly, I want to thank you for being a listener and you can go to get a free self care bonus called juice your joy at Analizawolf.com/freebonus. Thank you so much.