Analiza: Welcome to the Women of Color Rise Podcast. I'm Analiza Quiroz Wolf, proud, Filipina American, mom of two, and former CEO of a nonprofit and Captain in the US Air Force. I'm on a mission to support having more diverse leaders at the table. We'll be talking with successful CEOs and C suite women leaders of color and learning about their leadership journeys. If you're a woman or woman of color, who wants a seat at the table, you're in the right place. Now let's get into today's show.

I am so excited to be here with Maddie Neubauer. Today she is the owner, Founder CEO of vChief, which is an organization that helps leaders with having a seasoned partner to help them through all the hard things, overwhelming things, and be even better as a leader and also better for the organization. So Maddie comes with an extensive background in corporate nonprofit consulting, and she was actually a Chief of Staff herself. vChief provides useful stats for organizations. Mattie not only runs her business, but also is a mom, a partner and also loves to travel. Welcome with your MBA from Columbia, and also a fellow Stanford grad. I'm so happy you're here.

Maddy: Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here.

Analiza: So Maddie, the reason that I was particularly excited of all the things, but particularly because you are a world traveler, in fact, you were in the Peace Corps after Stanford, and the Ivory Coast. And when I learned about you, you had actually started this business vChief while living abroad in South America. And that's just, I mean, lots of oxymorons here, right, starting a business living abroad. Did you have three kids at the time?

Maddy: I did. Yeah.

Analiza: And then you did it for eight months. So just can you tell me about how that happened?

Maddy: Absolutely. Well, I've loved to travel since I was young, and was fortunate to be able to start that journey young. And my husband and I traveled a lot before we had kids. And then after we had kids, we have three kids, the younger two or twins that you can imagine life was really crazy when they were young. But by the time they were four, we felt like okay, you know what, like, we can manage life now, which took a while to get back. And we were excited to sort of show our kids the world. So we started taking pretty long trips abroad when they were four, six. And we started with like a month in Mexico. And then we did a month in Costa Rica. And it was the month in Costa Rica, where I was transitioning out of Teach for America and, you know, really launched the idea for vChief. And then the following year, we spent six months in South America. And then the year after that we spent six months in Asia. And then ever since then we've basically spent one to two months abroad, we typically do it in the winter, because we live in Wisconsin, and it's cold here.

And we tell our kids, our kids normally go to public school, but we pull our kids out of school and we World Schooled them. And world schooling looks really different for everyone who does it. Some people are unschoolers. And they just sort of use what they're doing on a day to day basis to teach their kids we were a bit more on the structured side, especially because we knew our kids had to go in and out of school. And we wanted them to be successful when they were in the school setting.

So even though we tried a few different things like we did one year was a really structured curriculum, they had videos that they watched, they brought books with them. And then other years, we've just said, you know, let's do some reading, writing and math, we try to keep up with the same math curriculum they're doing in school, just so that they can stay on track. And then obviously, sort of they learned from the places that we're going this past winter, we went to Tanzania, and we went on a safari. And then we also went to Egypt on a trip with other worldschooling families. And so we got to tour all the historic sites of Egypt, with other families and you know, build bonds with them. And also, you know, it was just really neat to see these kids who are really passionate about Egyptian history, like teaching my kids what they know about the different gods and all these things. And it was just such a really amazing, powerful experience. And I feel super blessed to be able to do that. And that was one reason that I started my company as a virtual company so that you know, we could do it from anywhere and everyone who works for me can do whatever they want from anywhere.

Analiza: I mean, you're the model, right? Like women want it all people say well, you can't have it all, you can have one thing at a time. And I think okay, we have a pie so let's get clear. There is a pie of 24 hours a day, seven days a week. I'm not saying Maddy has like 1000s of hours. The same time you have a pie and if you get clear on your values, which you obviously are clear that adventure travel world seeing the world as a family is important, you can then configure your life. So I just wanted to say let that clarity of vision which started back way back when with your partner before kids, Peace Corps, etcetera has continued, You don't have to stop all the things. So yeah, amazing. So I actually want to get detailed because you say, well, that's such a good idea, but not for me. But because the kids are there, you're gonna miss school, because you're in Wisconsin Public Schools.

Maddy: What's really tricky, and it actually does vary a lot state to state. And it varies what kind of school your kid is, and whether you can yank them out and stick them back in, we are very fortunate that our kids just go to a traditional standard public school, they don't have to have a lottery or anything to get in. And we're also lucky that Wisconsin has pretty liberal homeschool laws. So you just have to find a piece of paper that says you're going to educate your kids. And then they let you do whatever you want with them. And there are state laws that say like, if you take your kids out and put them back in, they can't punish you or put them down for a year or other things like that. But I know in other states, there are different rules and regulations. So to the extent that people want to do this, they should look up their state rules.

But you know, we had some friends who are world schoolers, who, from Chicago and their kids were in like a magnet school or some sort of charter school that had specific spots. And if they left, they were going to lose those spots. And so they had to make some hard decisions about what they valued and what was more important to them. I think a lot of times where employers will decide, oh, we're just going to do one big trip and then come back, right. I think we are a little bit unique in that we don't do it full time forever, because there's other families who do that too. But we sort of keep doing it every year. And it took some conversations with the school, I will say they weren't necessarily in love with us. But like the teachers were always like, that's so amazing. We're so excited for you and the administration's like, you're gonna miss it again this year. And we're like, yeah,

Analiza: So you do from December through Jan?

Maddy: It depends.

Yeah, the year we've often gone is like January and February. So we'll leave after winter break or during winter break sometimes. And then usually we're back either towards the end of January, or like Presidents weekend. And honestly, I think actually, we're going to stop doing such extended travel, because our eldest is now in high school. And so it seems like she might need it, so we might take an extra week here or there. We're talking about maybe going to the Galapagos high on the list for everyone.

Analiza: So great. There you know, pick her Maddy, another friend of mine, she left and lives abroad, she was a CEO of a nonprofit, she left and lives abroad. Now she consults and coaches online, she does a long one to two years in a location and tries to learn the language with her child. There are so many different ways and this conversation, Maddie I think, opens up that we don't have to pause life, right? As moms with young kids, we can have the things that matter to us.

Maddy: Absolutely. Like, I'm all for figuring out the ways to have it all. We have lots of good friends who sort of saw what we did. And they're like, oh, wait, you can do that. And you know, we have friends who went and lived on a sailboat for like a year and a half and other people who you know, moved to Ecuador for the summer or whatever. Not everyone obviously has the privilege to be able to uproot their lives for long periods of time. But there are ways to make it work.

Analiza: Okay. So Maddie, because you're a systems person, let's talk about systems. And in terms of like to consider doing that, what would you say are things to consider how to actually take it on the court?

Maddy: Yeah, I think first and foremost is figuring out your income, right? Like, can you keep your job? Do you need to ask for a leave of absence? Do you, like, do this as a transition between jobs, I think there's a big difference. We met other traveling families, some of whom were sort of, they built up a bunch of savings, and they're spending it down, and then they're gonna go back to work when they're done. I think it’s a little bit of a different way that that feels or mentality than if you're actually earning money while you're on the road. And if you are earning money on the road, what does that look like? Do you have to work certain amounts of hours or certain times and you have to have a good internet connection, because that will really inform the ways that you travel and whether or not you can, you know, do faster travel, a flow of travel, you know, be on a boat, you know, taking planes, trains, and automobiles. So I think thinking about that piece of it first is really important.

And then there's all the other logistical things like what do you do with your house? Right? Do you rent it, because that's an expense that will continue when you're not there. For our to six month trips, we rented our house out during that time for our shorter trips we've chosen not to, just because it seemed like more of a hassle than it was worth. But there's lots of ways to do that. There's also health exchange options, like I'm in several groups that people do that. So there's like the logistical pieces of it.

And then I think the third thing I'd think about obviously, if you have kids is the schooling and what is your vision for what schooling would look like, if you were out there? There's, as I said, so many different ways to do that. And how do you think about that if you have kids who have special learning needs, one of our kids is dyslexic, and we found out shortly before our trip to Asia, he was diagnosed and we ended up having like two different tutors that were doing zoom tutoring Hang with him while we were on the road, right? And so we did take a moment to pause and say, Are we making the right decision? Like, are we harming our kids' education, but we felt like ultimately, we could pull it off. And you know, I don't think they're any worse for where because of it. So those are some of the like, the concrete things I would say. And then some resources that are out there, there's you go on Facebook and look up World School will schooler worldschooling like half a dozen Facebook groups, which are amazing places to like, connect with other families. And that's how we met with other families when we're traveling. And our kids have made some friendships that you know, I think will last a really long time. So those are some of the like, tactical tips to pull that off.

Analiza: So helpful. Can you talk about your favorite countries?

Maddy: I'm not gonna list the countries we've been to because there are a lot but we've done most of South America, a lot of Central America, we've done most of East Asia, certainly not all of it, but a lot, especially Southeast Asia, and Europe, we've only been to England, I really want to go to Australia, New Zealand. We haven't made it there. Favorite places, I think for natural beauty. One of my favorite places is Patagonia. And we did this drive called the correct raw straw, which goes down southern Chile. And it's a little bit of a rough road, most of its paved now it's not that bad. But it goes through the most natural beauty places you've ever seen. And you take ferries and you do all sorts of interesting things. And then in southern Patagonia, Torres Del Paine A and L Shelton are both just extraordinarily beautiful places and just incredible hiking and mountains and other things like that. And then on the more like cultural side, I really liked Laos, and Luang Prabang was really amazing city the way that it's sort of situated along a river with these mountains, and they have these monks who come out every morning.

Analiza: Tell me Maddie, did you have this vision when you're a kid, like little Maddie had this dream? I'm going to be a business owner. I'm gonna be traveling around the world.

Maddy: No, not at all. I mean, I was fortunate to be able to travel a bit as a kid, my grandma took me on the grandparents / grandchildren tour to Europe when I was 14. And amusingly, my mom just did a similar thing with my daughter and took her to Paris this summer with a bunch of other grandparents and grandkids, which was super fun. So I knew that I was excited about travel and other cultures. And then in school, I didn't get to study abroad because I actually transferred to Stanford halfway through. So I kind of had to finish all my credits there. When I finished school, I knew I wanted to spend some time abroad and was excited to join the Peace Corps and do it that way. And that I think, was when I was really like, Oh, I just love immersing myself in other cultures and learning about other people. My best friend from high school took this really extended trip, I think it was about a year with her husband before kids. And I was like, that seems amazing. I would like to do that, but didn't really have the resources to pull that off for a whole year. So then it was, you know, Mike, and I took like a three month trip through the South Pacific. Once we had kids, we knew we wanted to do something, but I didn't ever have the vision of like, I'm going to own a company and do his whole thing. I mean, I had always had entrepreneurial thoughts, but I don't know that I ever thought I was going to be a you know, a founder and a business owner.

Analiza: So this arc of your life, when you're thinking about having it all and being able to do that with your partner, your business your kids, when you get heard you talk about the four hour workweek, can you say, you know, I love this book, when I read it, here are the takeaways that I've really tried to implement in my life that have made a difference to make this happen.

Maddy: Yeah, I think the first thing is that the main tenet of that book is to stop trading your time for money, which I think it's just this concept that like, your time is a limited resource. And you're never going to, you know, be able to go beyond however many hours you spend, right. And so unless you are building something that goes beyond just trading your time for money, you will never really have time freedom, right? So whether that's creating a business or investing in real estate or doing any of those things, it is like just the concept that a salary will only get you so far. And so that I think was the biggest thing for me.

And even as I started vChief, you know, our model is to match fractional Chiefs of Staff. Typically, sometimes we do like interim COO and other roles, but we our bread and butter is chiefs of staff. And so we match them with leaders who they're being the right hand partner for. I was the Chief of Staff. I was doing that work, right. And so when I started vChief, I kept one client, a former boss and mentor of mine. And then I had the decision to make - do I take on more clients myself? Or do I hire other people to take on the clients and then spend my own time building the business? And at that time, it felt really risky to hire other people because then you know, if I'm doing the work, I get all the money. If I hire other people, I only get some margin of the money. And, you know, you're sort of starting out you're trying to figure out whether this is going to work so it felt a little nerve wracking at the time but it was absolutely the right decision, because then it allowed me to spend the time doing the things that would make the chief grow, right. And so immediately, I started hiring people and really turned it into more of a matchmaking service than like Maddie being a Chief of Staff to a handful of people. So those were, I think, the biggest lessons that I took away.

Analiza: So Maddie talk about that lead, because you and I know a lot of consultants, especially coming from education, and you're trying to make a difference, but also have more flexibility. And I'm curious what got you over the hump to say, Okay, I'm going to take this risk and be able to hire people, because that then kind of guarantees that you have to make a certain amount of revenue to allow you to live, I mean, paycheck, right.

Maddy: So I was in a fortunate position, I was leaving Teach For America as part of like a second round of big layoffs. And because I was our budget and headcount manager for our team, I knew several months before that the layoffs were going to happen, and basically sort of wrote my own team off the org chart, which is sad, but it was gonna happen like that we ran big conferences, and they were decreasing in size. And that just didn't make sense to continue to do. And so I had a long window to like, get a lot of the elements of the business up and running. And then like before left Teach for America. And then I was on severance for a handful of months after that. So I mean, I will say like, that was a privilege, that is not everybody has when they're starting a business. So I was sort of like, well, we'll try this for a few months. And if it doesn't work, I can just get more clients and do the work myself. So it was a little bit of just like an experiment, experimentation, period. And then the other nice thing that was that like coming out of that period of time at Teach for America, so many people with a lot of amazing talent went on the market suddenly. But also, like, so many people were starting new things, and were just really supportive of each other. There was like this ecosystem of innovation and entrepreneurship, and people just wanted to help each other. So like, I got so many referrals, both of people to work for us and have clients from that Teach For America network is amazing.

Analiza: It's helpful to hear the steps and also just also named that there's some privilege here that you know, taking risks, there was actually a little bit of a ramp off and to allow that ramp to also then blossom into lots of referrals and connections. So I really appreciate that. So Maddy, I say this lovingly, you're a a bit of an oxymoron, and that you're doing all the things and I want to just talk about these myths because they are myth breakers and for you and thinking through your own. You also I've learned that you're having to have confidence, right? And believing in yourself that you can take risks, you can do these things. What myths did you have to learn weren't true?

Maddy: I mean, I think there's this myth that you have to live this conventional life, right? That society says you have to like, get married and have kids and have this house and have a job that pays for it all and watch your kids get successful and go off to college and do this thing, right. And I think there's part of us that as people who are successful and driven people like, Okay, this is what one does in life, right. And so I think just being able to say, hey, actually, like, you don't have to follow all the like rules that you think are out there for you, that you can be different that you can educate your kids differently. You can have your relationship be different, there's like so many ways that you can, you know, just sort of step outside of the norm.

You know, I think another thing that's really interesting to think about, it's sort of the role of women in relationships. And I have always been the primary breadwinner in our relationship ever since I got my MBA that sort of gives you a little bit of a leg up. My husband was a hydrogeologist for years, which he was passionate about. It's not an incredibly lucrative career. Right. And so, you know, I think there's some myths around like, family style and men being breadwinners. I mean, in a traditional, you know, heterosexual relationship. And, you know, I'm not gonna say there haven't been like, moments that that was difficult in our relationship, but I think just being able to be like, No, you know what, it's okay, that I'm the breadwinner, and it's okay that I am the business owner. And my husband at this point doesn't doesn't have a full time job and probably won't ever get one again. And we're lucky that, you know, the chief has been successful enough that he doesn't have to write it, but you know, and we, he does lots of things, right. Like, we have investment properties that he manages, and he's on the board and a naturalist at our local Conservancy. So like he finds meaning and in other things he does, but like, I would say, that's pretty untraditional. And I think, you know, you just sort of have to put up with like, society's expectations, right, like there's still people who are like, so what Mike's doing these days, but Mike and I are both, you know, perfectly happy with housing. All right. So, yeah.

Analiza: Maddie, the idea of a partner, being supportive and also humble, right to be able to not that he's not working, but not to follow the traditional father or manly, you know, I'm the breadwinner, it is important to pick that right partner. And I want to just underscore that because we often don't talk about this. I don't know if you learned about it in Columbia, I did not at Northwestern, which is where I went to business school. But that was not a class, I'm like, in your designing your life, which I did not take. There's also the hardware piece selecting not just the person that you're attracted to, and you love, but also do we have enough flexibility to break norms or to have a vision that will allow you maybe to take the backseat, while I you know, take this other career choice? Talk to me about the women that you've met in? I'll say, breaking the mold? What do you find in common about what they have been able to do in their life that allows them to have it all?

Maddy: I think it's like, centering the non work thing, right? It's saying, like, my priority is to live this lifestyle or live into my passion, whatever that is, you know, in our case, and in the world, coolers cases, generally travel right? More, it's like, I want to spend time with my kids before they grow up. And that's something that's like, super important to me, right. And I think by saying like, that is, in fact, my priority, as opposed to work. And I'm going to figure out what works with that lifestyle, right. And so I might have to transition out of like, a big corporate job or something else, and then I have to figure out what's gonna work for me, and a lot of them do some sort of like independent consulting, or sometimes they sort of create new businesses or other things like that, right, some of which go smashingly. And some of which are not that great, right?

Like, there's only so many people who can be successful travel bloggers, right. And so that's not to say, I discourage people from doing that. But like, know that you're not going to make any money for the first few years, right. But we met this family, that's amazing. They're like travel bloggers, that are videographers, that was their career before they left the states. And so they would do like big corporate things, they would do wedding, all sorts of things. And now they have these crazy YouTube channels. And they're like, famous in like various places in the world, they did all this stuff in the Philippines. They're like YouTube Philippine Stars, hilarious, and like, people will come up to them all over the place and be like, and they're very recognizable, like, they have lots of tattoos, and she has a pink Mohawk. And they're just amazing, amazing people, right, and now they're traveling with their RV all over the US. And so they, you know, like found ways to take their skills and create it in an environment that works, sort of wherever they are, right. And so they have this course for like, Kids to Learn video skills. And they also, you know, have their YouTube stuff. And, you know, it's just like, people will come up with all sorts of interesting things.

We have another friend Karen, who's the one who ran our trip to Egypt. So she founded this thing called Worldschooling Central. And it's like a website that has a lot of resources. And she runs one of the Facebook groups. And so she started planning these trips as part of their, you know, like, income thing. And then now I think she has another business that is helping people with, like, technology, fascinating what people will come up with, when they decide like, this is what I want to do, and I'm gonna do whatever it takes to make this happen.

Analiza: It's this decision, right? What do you want, when you're clear about what matters in this case, travel, you don't have a shared passion for supposedly exposing our kids to travel in the world, then we can build our life around that. I also wanted to double click here, Maddie on this idea of centering non work things. Because life especially in New York City, and some of these big across the country. I think in America, it's like work is who you are. Maddie, what do you do versus like Maddie, who are you? I so love that there are other ways of thinking about identity and that we can do these shifts not following the prescription early on or earlier on then. Now I'm about to be on my deathbed and would have led as my life been about. All right, Maddie, let's do lightning round. You ready?

Maddy: I am ready.

Analiza: Okay, chocolate or vanilla.

Maddy: Chocolate every time.

Analiza: Cooking or take out?

Maddy: Cooking. I love cooking

Analiza: Climb a mountain or jump from a plane.

Maddy: I have done both. If I was going to do it again and probably climb another mountain. I don't want to die.

Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Maddy: But amusingly? Yes, I totally have. It was totally stylish back when I was in high school. Come on.

Analiza: How would you rate your karaoke skills on a scale of one to 1010 being Mariah Carey?

Maddy: I'm gonna go seven. Not because I'm a good singer. I'm an okay singer. I can carry a tune. You don't really want to hear me solo. But I'm really enthusiastic. And I like to get other people involved in the singing. So I make it pretty fun for everyone. I love karaoke.

Analiza: What's a recent book you read?

Maddy: So I read this book called Love Lives Here. It is about a family where the daughter of God is transgender. And then the father of the family comes out as transgender as well. And it's from the perspective of the mother and it's just a really beautiful family story and I have a trans son and it was just really meaningful for me.

Analiza: What's your favorite way to practice self care?

Maddy: Exercising every single day and getting massages.

Analiza: What's a good professional development you've done?

Maddy: Ah,there was this course through an organization called Leading Elephants. It's called White Leaders Working on Anti Racism. And it's just a really great sort of cohort based way to learn more about equity and what we as white people can do, you know, to help dismantle all of the oppressive system.

Analiza: What's your definition of a Boss Mama?

Maddy: I would say a woman who is just crushing it both at work and at home.

Analiza: What advice would you give your younger self?

Maddy: Get a little bit crazy? You're allowed. You're young.

Analiza: And so where can we find you like LinkedIn or anywhere else?

Maddy: Yep. On LinkedIn. I'm at Maddy Niebauer. Our vChief is also there on LinkedIn and on Facebook. Our website is virtualchiefofstaff.com. And then on Twitter, I'm NiebauerMaddy and vChief is @virtualchief on Twitter.

Analiza: And so last question, do you have a final ask recommendation or any parting thoughts to share?

Maddy: Figure out what you're passionate about and just really live into it because tomorrow is not promised.

Analiza: It was real Maddy, this has been such a delight. Thank you so much for your time and sharing all this wonderful wisdom.

Maddy: Thank you so much for having me. It is so much fun to talk about all of this stuff. I could do it all day. And if anybody wants to talk to me about it more, feel free to reach out because it's my favorite thing.

Analiza: Thanks, Maddy.

Thank you so much for carving out time today to hear today's podcast. Three things before you go. First, if you found it helpful, please leave a five star review. Second, please share with someone else you can share the link and posts on Facebook and say check it out. Lastly, I wanted to thank you for being a listener and you didn't go to get a free self care bonus called juice your joy at analizawolf.com/freebonus. Thank you so much.