Analiza: Welcome to the Women of Color Rise Podcast. I'm Analiza Quiroz Wolf, proud Filipina American, mom of two, and former CEO of a nonprofit and Captain in the US Air Force. I'm on a mission to support having more diverse leaders at the table. We'll be talking with successful CEOs and C suite women leaders of color and learning about their leadership journeys. If you're a woman or woman of color, who wants a seat at the table, you're in the right place. Now let's get into today's show.

Friends, I'm so excited to have Kathy Kuo with us today. She comes from a really beautiful background, which is all about home, having a home where you can have both your eternal family and also the environment around you reflect your values. Kathy's upbringing actually started in Taiwan. She grew up there in Taipei and then moved to Boston and went to design school in Rhode Island. She was a senior designer at Bed, Bath and Beyond. And then that helped her launch Kathy Kuo Home. And it's this beautiful interior design service that has this robust way of doing a design, something I wish when I went through my crazy renovation to bring all the different elements together in a beautiful, elegant way. And hopefully you're checking out YouTube because Kathy, even behind her, has this space that looks like it's one of those zoom backgrounds, but it's actually real. So both elegant in her home and in her being. It's so great to have you here, Kathy, to share your story. Thanks for being here.

Kathy: Thank you so much, Analiza. So lovely to see you again. Happy New Year.

Analiza: So Kathy, let's talk about you. And particularly your upbringing, because it's rare to have someone I think in design and then start their business and entrepreneurship. Can you talk about how your identity, your upbringing helped shape your path and where you are today?

Kathy: Yeah, thank you. So I grew up a little unconventionally. My father was a diplomat and I grew up basically traveling all over the world as a child. And let's be completely clear, I did not have all the privileges of being a diplomat, you know, daughter, it wasn't like, you know, we got out of parking tickets and everything, it was pretty much just I moved around all the time. And at a point where I joke around, you know, I went to grade school, middle school and high school, all in different countries in different schools, and I would come home from high school, I remember and just all of my stuff would have already been moved. So I would come home and I'm like, Where's all my stuff and my parents would have already moved for me.

And so it's like things like this, the things that I really held near and dear to me were the things that I would bring from home to home and so this would be like a hammock or it's like it's the things inside the home like a picture frame or a specific teddy bear. And, these are the things that really resonated to me. And so ever since then, home meant to me like love, belonging, safety, nurturing, and consistency, really. And so it was always like, ever since I was a kid, I knew I was going to be interior designer, or at least doing something at home. So that's 100% the reason why.

Analiza: Kathy, your love of home and movement, I mean, that's pretty crazy to come home and then have all your stuff gone. I mean, that's a surprise. That's very jolting as a kid and to have it at times as a child.

Kathy: And so we can imagine it that sounds and to have done it like I would say probably eight or nine times growing up remembering going from absolute popularity to the doldrums of like having zero friends, right, like the disparity of the two speaking the language to completely not speaking the language then back to, you know, forgetting English again, and all of that and how it shapes you in terms of like, oh my gosh, like, I gotta like, make friends. I've got to like to learn language, I have to figure out how to not, you know, get zero points in math and like, all of that stuff, I think is really, really shaped me to who I am today, I would say.

Analiza: So Kathy, let's actually go there because having moved to so many different countries, different language, different culture going from popular to zero friends. You're the new girl, right? Imagine you're this new girl. And I'm curious because you've done it over and over again. It's almost like entering an actress set and being a new actor in a whole different landscape of which is the script. You're not even clear what that is for you. What did you learn because you're looking back now and you're saying, Wow, having done this more than eight times, I learned - what would you say those things were that you learned?

Kathy: Yeah, I believe that you'd like to die if you knew that I actually had different names too. So yeah, up until the fifth grade, I was Janet. And then I became Victoria when I was in Taiwan. When I came back, I was captured, so I literally became a new person because I had the opportunity to not like, you know, legal names and legal American names in Taiwan.

I think like really, really digging deep and thinking through the emotions. I think the initial emotion was just overwhelming excitement. When you're young, you sort of are like, Oh, this is a whole new thing, right? And then you soon start to realize that there's, you have to be extremely observant of the things that are happening around you, who's talking to whom, what are the societal norms? Who do you address? Like, how do you address somebody? Like do you call them Mr. or Mrs. Like, how must one speak to your teachers.

I remember in school in Taiwan, and by the way, we have a very large class. And believe it or not, I was a number, no name but we were a number. I was number 48. I know this seems so crazy. Now that I live in New York City, my kids go to, you know, a wonderful, independent school in the city to ever consider being number 48. But I was a new kid. So I was number 48, because I was the 48th kid in the class. And because I was so tall, because that's six feet tall, I sat way in the back. And no one ever saw me. And if I came to class, God forbid, with a pen that didn't have ink in it or something. And the test went on, I couldn't even ask for help. Like, it was like you sink or swim. I remember thinking to myself, like I better learn really, really quickly, what it's like to make friends and how to ask for help, because, like, no one was going to step in and try to help me, that was really, really hard.

You know, the interesting thing is, it sort of also afforded me a lot of being sort of humble and looking around and understanding what was going on. Shockingly, I was voted class president in the sixth grade and rose to immediate popularity. Everyone wanted to hang out with me, be me. I don't know. I have a knit sweater that rose me to like the top of like, catapulted me into like the most extreme of popularity, which is so interesting. They're like, we love your knit sweater. It was like a hand-on-braid knit sweater. So weird. It's just like the littlest things. But people really enjoyed spending time with me. And that was wonderful.

And then I came back to America. And I remember till this day, there was a woman there. Her name is Annie. I won't say her last name, but I'll never forget, she was the only person that came up to me and was like, Are you having a really good first day in school? And I remember the only thing that I knew how to say was Yeah, cuz I forgot all my English when I came back to the US in eighth grade.

So I missed three years in America when I was in Taiwan. And so you know, hung out and tried to learn. I think the biggest thing that I realize is in Asian culture, you don't raise your hand ever in class and you don't ever try to speak up in class because you're there to learn it to absorb and America, you're supposed to raise your hand if the teacher asks who wants to be the line leader, you go mee, mee, mee, Mee Mee, and that was really difficult for me to understand like that. This is my time to actually be called on, you would never want to be called out in Taiwan. Like you'd be called on. If you had like, done something horrible and you were going to be shamed. You know, I think there's a lot of shaming happening in Asian culture, which is unfortunate.

And then it was like, you know, the rise of popularity with the right pair of Doc Martens. I swear to God, but yeah, my parents sent me to school, the first day of school, you know, with a straw backpack and a giant red coat. And I was never like, forgive my parents for it. I'm like, Mom, why did you ever think that it was okay to send me to school with a straw backpack, but it is what it is. But yeah, resilience, humility, and being just really, really observant of your surroundings is I think what I really learned.

Analiza: I mean, even today, Kathy in the way that you I'm sure if you don't like Doc Martens, or you've got the cool outfit on again, through something that looks super put together and cute. And so Kathy, resilience, humility, the ability to be observant and curious. And you brought this up earlier, just Asian culture, there's things that we learn that you're just like, No, actually, that's not the way I should perform here or operate here, or even believe. And so that gives me this question of the myths that we have been raised, taught to believe and then later we find out are not actually true. So Kathy, can you tell me what myths come to mind when I bring that up for you?

Kathy: Oh, gosh, this is actually quite a personal one. My grandmother was actually the daughter of I’ll call it the first wife, which was the unwanted wife. You know, her father actually went on and married other women and she was essentially the, the child of the unwanted wife and so she was actually legitimately put into a garbage can because she was born with severe asthma and she was raised in secrecy by her own mother, and she only had had an education up until the sixth grade. She learned Japanese like this during the Japanese rule.

And she really, you know, through her entire life like lived with this like real sort of resentment towards I'll call it you know, a patriarchal society and have resentment towards the fact that she wasn't afforded an education and the fact that, you know, in those times men could have multiple lives just because you're wealthy. And since she was part of the unwanted, you know, she didn't really have any opportunities.

And so when she later on married my grandfather, who was just the most wonderful man ever, like just the most happy encouraging, lovely, wonderful grandfather, she then went on to have four other daughters, and then one son, so she had five children of her own, uh, my mom is actually the first daughter that was born. And so you can imagine how my mother saw the life through my grandmother's lens, you know, we always say, especially in Asian culture, that the stories of your family really are carried through and the women in the family and you know, you would hear these stories about how my grandmother really, really, you know, raised my mom to be somebody who, like, the most important thing you can do to get out of poverty is you have to go to school, and you have to not rely on a man because you know, what happens when you rely on a man you end up like my mom, you end up like having to raise me in secrecy. And so this was, like, always her idea.

Now, on the flip side, you know, in Asian culture, there's this whole dowry concept, right? So if I were to give birth to a daughter, eventually, I would take in a dowry from another family, you give my daughter a way to go live on the husband's side of the family. And so essentially, I would lose my daughter. And so this notion of raising women or raising girls, um, is really baked into Asian culture, at least in Chinese society, Chinese and Taiwan, Taiwanese society in which, when you raise girls, like you eventually lose them, they're not yours to keep. And so when I was growing up, my mom always reminded me, you know, like that, like, this is how she grew up. But there was always this sort of disparity between, you know, being a boy and being a girl, and being a girl was always just not as favorable.

And I always had so much anger around this, I'm like, why would you perpetuate this bias? Like, I don't live like this, you know, I've just the closest relationship with my mom, I see her all the time. I call her all the time, like, I'm not going anywhere, like, where am I going? Like, are you giving me a way to govern? Oh, thinking, but you know, this bias is just so baked into Asian culture. And it's really, really unfortunate, you know, and again.

I think going back to the whole, like, you know, your way out is through education. And so really my options were a doctor, lawyer, lawyer, you know, and, of course, I went and decided I was gonna go be an artist. And that was horrifying to my parents. And not only an artist, but an entrepreneur, which is almost the same thing as being unemployed, which is actually unemployment unless you start making money. And I'm like, oh, I want to be an entrepreneur. And my parents were like, do you mean, you don't want to get a job? That's literally what they said. I don't like it, I guess that's another way to think about it. So yeah, it's essentially, you know, on a path to being homeless, and an artistic homeless person. So it was like, pretty horrifying to them. But totally, yeah, you can be successful doing anything you want, so long as you love it. I mean, that's the first thing, you have to absolutely love it. And then you have to work super, super, super, super hard at it. And then you're good. Like, I think the output of that is money, right? Like you don't have to worry about optimizing for money. First, you optimize for doing what you love, and being the best in class in that one thing. So I think that was a myth too.

Analiza: So the myth of first, daughters are meant to be given away, right? That is actually not true. And actually, I know from your website and learning about you, Kathy, that you believe in female empowerment. And so does that stem from there? Would you say there's other pieces to that?

Kathy: There's so much of it. So you know, my mom growing up, she was so so busy. She has three masters, she's absolutely brilliant. She's a limitless learner, absolutely creative and curious. And she's an incredible adult friend, you know, growing up, she wasn't around a lot. And we talked about this, you know, and she really, according to her mother, had to work really, really hard to learn the language to get a job and do all the things.

And as a result, you know, I kind of really wished when it was my turn, that I had the ability to work somewhere and be able to raise my children at the same time. And so like, how do we create environments in which we can you know, work we can raise our children and we don't have to make a choice like is there a way in which like, you can have a career doing things that you love and not have to make a choice between your family and having a career I think in the design creative world is a little bit easier, I'll say, to do that. And that was one of the largest reasons why I started out my brand is you know, as pioneering working from home before working from home was the thing that you know, a large part of our executive team are actually women.

I would say the majority of our team, even outside of our executive team, are also women and you know, women of color. Women of a different, you know, ethnic background, and it's really, really been wonderful. You know, I always say when you get women into a room, it almost seems like nothing is impossible, what can come through like the amount of problems that we can solve for and there's just sort of this innate understanding of you know, this is we can all work together, we can build this together, there's no egos kind of, you know, drip away, there's, there's a lot of humility, it's really remarkable to see what women can do when you put them together in a room. It's amazing to watch. And it's amazing to build that.

Analiza: I love that you pioneered Kathy, before working from home was a thing, you're already doing it, and that you use your mom's both are inspirational, all that she achieved, but also a way of learning that you wanted something different for you and your kids and created space, literally, with your design your business, to create beautiful space for you, for others, and then also the people who work for you. So I love this through line of the things inspired but also taking it upon yourself to make things better for women, including yourself. So I love that. And I want to go to this idea of you choosing design and entrepreneurship, because frankly, as someone in this entrepreneurship world, you're pretty rare Kathy, to see a woman of color, Asian woman, as an Asian person myself,

Kathy: I worked a series of corporate jobs all in all in the design field. So I started out actually as a luxury importer. So I designed and understood the entire lifecycle of a product and did a bunch of other corporate jobs. And I remember, you know, saying to myself, gosh, all I want to do is just make $5,000 a month, just $5,000 a month. And so that amounted to $60,000 a year, which basically could pay for my I think it was like a small one bedroom apartment on the Upper West Side, right, like 20 years ago. And that was kind of like my goal for myself. So I had to figure out how to get there, how could I make $60,000 a year to support myself, and when I did, I would then quit my corporate job. And mind you, I was making significantly more in corporate, but I was going to, you know, just decide to embark on a Costco ramen diet for the love and do this. So it wasn't entirely, you know, I was somewhat risk adverse in the beginning, because I had to figure out how to live and stuff.

But you know, my parents were supportive over the years, you know, in terms of when I, you know, very early on, you know, they supported me a little bit in some early capital, but for the most part, they were kind of like, you clearly know what you're doing here, you love doing this, and you're so energized by this every day, you know, we went from basically, you know, working out of the basement of my apartment to, you know, 22 people in the basement of my apartment, I mean, to the point where my super was like, this happening, the amount of toilet paper we would go through. I mean, it was crazy. So then we actually had to finally move, you know, out of my apartment, but we're about 250 employees. Now, it was just like one foot in front of the next and it's been a crazy, crazy wild ride. I honestly can't think of like one singular moment that I was like, okay, like this, is it right? It was just like, can you do this? Sure, why not? Let's just keep going.

Analiza: And can you talk about other leadership changes you made as you evolved, especially growing your company from 22, to 250.

Kathy: But I think YPO has been really, really supportive and started extremely helpful for me, we actually implement a lot of what we call the forum toolkits into our businesses as well. And you know, we do these level 10 meetings of our executive meetings that are very long, extensive, they happen, you know, on a Tuesday, sometimes two to three hours at a time. And it's really a shared space in which we really, really work on the business, it's really kind of the only time that we were able to do that. And we always start off with gratitude and vulnerability. And the reason for that is because with shared vulnerability, you are able to really, really hack through a lot of really, really difficult problems of the business. And I will tell you, all of our problems that arise in every business has nothing to do with Can we do it, it has more to do with the politics around? Should I do it? Who am I going to offend? Is this the right step? Because I might upset this person? Or is this my responsibility? It's all politics and silos. And so with shared vulnerability, you're really able to say the things that you mean, what you say, you know, how radical candor and really, really push through?

I think, with being the CEO today, I think the piece that I've worked really, really hard on and learn today is like, you know, you get to a point where you are making decisions, you're making a decision about everything, and you're almost frankly, making decisions about things that you shouldn't really be making decisions on to a point where today and I would say the turning point was about maybe a year and a half ago that I actually am just at a point where all I do is just ask questions, you know, turning into an active listener to be an advocate for making the right decisions and teaching the team how to think about a problem as opposed to what to think about a lot of times.

You know, we frankly make decisions that may or may not like, you know, jeopardize, you know, an entire team's efforts that have been, you know, I've experienced this before were three or four months of work is like, just because I said one thing, they're halting it, they're moving in a different direction. And you know, I don't want to be that person. So I want to make sure that we are rowing the boat, all collectively in the same direction, we are saying all the things that we mean, we are working really, really, really hard to actually have the best in class talent, we trust each other's judgment. And that we can just move through issues quickly and have a really, really tight feedback loop. My job is basically to be a sounding board, and to be an active listener only. And so I think those are the changes from where I am today as the CEO versus where I was before, I don't actually make decisions. It's weird. I don't make decisions. I make decisions by asking you how you should think about it.

Analiza: I hear you wanting to invest in your people that they're best in class, because you help them really become decision makers themselves. And a lot of that is trying to translate how you think through problems. And then also have them think through problems as well, that it's a collaborative effort, really, with the foundation of trust. Yeah. And that's, it's interesting, because sometimes people say, Well, yes, vulnerability. I mean, we've seen the posters, be vulnerable, share what's in your heart. And that's how you build team morale. But that's not easy. And so Kathy, like bringing back if you can to Yes, you've had the aha moment. Yes, I want to bring YPO structures vulnerability into our culture here.

Kathy: Right? Well, I don't think that it's a hard thing. For me, it's natural to me to actually share how I feel. I'm fairly like, this is how I feel. And I will specifically tell you what you do this, this makes me feel this way. So this is something that I typically do in general, I think the first step is like, you know, it has to be top down. So the first thing we have to do is to make sure that everybody on our leadership team is excellent. That's the first thing because without that everything kind of doesn't work, right, you don't trust what they're gonna say, you don't really value their judgment, you don't think that they're limitless learners, you're not sure that totally curious, like, you have to make sure that they're totally aligned with you and all your values and your culture.

The second thing that we did is we would do what we called, they're called, like navigating issues, unpacking sessions. And so what we would basically do is, we would get into a room and we would talk about one really, really difficult topic and this difficult topic, we would lead in with sort of, you know, you know, three deep breaths, you know, sort of a commitment to be present with each other. And then we go through this exercise of how do we want to roll and so the how do we want to roll today is basically figuring out, you know, this is the line, you've got to be above the line or below the line being above the line is being empathetic, curious, you know, maintaining a positive outlook, assuming positive intent. And then below the line, you know, are the opposites of being above the line.

And we always say, you know, it's okay to be below the line, we all fall into the trap of being below the line. In fact, we typically go through our day being above the line and below the line. But anytime you're below the line, you're just not above the line. And so if you catch yourself being below the line that you should call yourself out on it to be like, You know what, I'm finding myself to be a little bit defensive right now. And I don't know why. And I'm going to just take a minute. And it's okay for other people to call you out on it too, to be like, Hey, Analiza, I've been noticing that this is really upsetting you and this is making you feel like I'm getting a sense of defensiveness. Like can you talk about this some more where it's coming from? And so really being able to, like actually talk about the emotions around the topics that we're talking about? Because sometimes that's also really hard too, what are the emotions surrounding the things that we want and the things that we hope we could do better, but the really big piece is actually owning it.

100% is really going in, say, What is my part in this, like, if I had the ability to change this one way or another, or if I had the ability to do or say something that actually is, you know, sometimes we act passive, like that's our choice or choices to actually be passive. And that's actually what we're saying is like, we're choosing not to say anything. And sometimes that's actually the most damaging, so if I had the ability, what is my part, my part is to basically do this, I could be doing this even if it has nothing to do with me, even if this is completely not my project. And or I don't really think that I have the ability to affect change. If we were to all go in there and lean in 100%.

Like everybody on the executive team, let's say it's an issue we want to talk about as it relates to customer service damages. For example, what can I do in ops? What can I do in service? What can I do in trade? What can I do in all these different departments and actually write down the nuggets of wisdom that come out of really owning something? 100% is so remarkable. And the minute you hear somebody else owns their stuff, it's so like, compelling because you're like, wait, you totally did not need to own that. And thank you for owning that. Because now that I realized that you wish that you could have spoken up when this had happened. I feel like now I can own it's almost like we help each other get better by owning it, even if we don't have to.

And I think that's also part of relationships to where it's like it's not enough to just lean in 50% You have to lean in like 80% Because if I know no matter what you've named an 80% Because you're gonna go Catch me every time I fall, because you are there for me 80% of the time, it no longer becomes a transactional relationship, right? It's like, I always knew you weren't going to come to me before I needed it. And so having that with your leadership team is so important when you unpack issues. And I think that helps. When you have shared vulnerability, when you say, I know I'm acting this way, call me out on it, why act this way? Call me out on it. Because I'm going to be better, I promise you, I will be better than I will. Thank you, when you call me out on this.

Analiza: Wow, Kathy, this vulnerability that underscores your way of operating with your team, I wanted to spell those out the way that and I heard them was one, make sure the team's awesome, excellent values aligned top notch. So you got that in place, you can truly believe that they are going to do a great job. And they're going to learn and they're going to be there. So that's the first thing. The second thing I heard was, where are we having this above the line below the line structure and being able to have that common knowledge, common language so that we could name it not just for each other, but also particularly important for ourselves? So I'm hearing that the third is that we're fully in 100% for each other and 100%. To name what can I do, even if a problem doesn't seem to touch my realm at all, but there is a piece that I can own? What is that? 100%? So I love that foundation. So Kathy, this goes beyond just your executive team, like the team's practice that within each other's teams, is that right?

Kathy: Right. So we actually have what we'll call L time meetings in all the departments as well. And so last year, we rolled it out to our three biggest and this year, we're going to roll it out to ops and finance. So it's not on all teams. But it's such a process, you have to really follow the processes, we go through a whole scorecard review, we then go through a rock review quarterly, you know, and then it's like a, once you actually go through the process, it's fairly extensive. But then everybody's on a single roadmap, you literally see what everybody else is doing. And so it's like, it's crystal clear. It's not like, Oh, I think I know, you know, because every week we talked about the same things. And it's, you know, listed out onto a scorecard and said, everybody can see.

Analiza: Beautiful, and I love how you connect business objectives with the touchy feely stuff, which actually is real, right? We often are like, feelings, feelings, whatever, we'll deal with that later. But actually, that does drive so much of what's happening.

Kathy: I can't even tell you, it's been so impactful to the men on our leadership team, they have expressed to me I mean, I've I've witnessed tears, I've expressed like, Wow, I feel more connected to this, I'm going to take some of these learnings and bring it even to my own family and how I communicate with my wife and children. It's amazing. The things that I'm hearing, the men are very appreciative because I don't think that they are taught really to, you know, go through the motions face update, as opposed to well, how was your day? It was good. You know, Michigan was great, awesome. What else?

Analiza: Beautiful. So I want to bring us, Kathy to your children, and just how you have done this business while also being a single mom. And I want to just highlight like, how do you do it if you're just like you do so much. And there's so many best practices, and you're such a learner that there are different pieces that you've brought together from different sources. If you just highlight maybe a couple that you're just like, hey, I know I'm busy. I really want to be a present mom, here are two things that I do. And I make sure I do what I'm really committed to to help me be the best mom and also the best leader I can be. Can you share?

Kathy: Yeah, for sure. By the way, I need all the tips in the world. So I can dish out too. But please help me out here. I live and die by my schedule. And I know it sounds neurotic, but I actually scheduled what we call a special time with my kids. So I have a six and have now closed more than a few days, seven year old, a seven and 10 year old special time is so critical. And that's only 30 minutes. And every kid gets special time with me for 30 minutes allotment and they know it's scheduled and they know it's coming and they all fight for it. They're like can I get a special time today they like to think all day about what they want to do during their special time and the 30 minute special time is honestly whatever they want to do. Like honestly, whatever. Like granted, it can't be something dangerous or like, like, we have to be able to do it within 30 minutes, right?

And so some of the times, you know, because you have two kids like you know, oftentimes it's sort of like they're always just fighting for each other's attention to provide attention like they just want one on one time. Sometimes Maya will want you know, to just literally go to Duane Reade and get a bag of Doritos like she just cherishes is walking that two and a half blocks to go get Doritos for me to pay for it, of course and then for me to walk back with her and like the conversations we'll have.

And so what happens is when the other kid gets special time the other kid has to get into their PJs or you know, get ready for bed or whatever it may be. But during the special time what I really really make a note to do is actually all I do is reflect back and ask questions. There's no moment of judgment. The 30 minutes is a judgment free zone for me so my daughter will say things to me like bla bla bla bla bla this kid that kid school that dot dot, dot dot and as much as I want to be like who said what? I try so hard to not react. And I just asked her, why do you feel that? Would you like my help? Or do you want to talk about it some more tomorrow? And so I literally will just re ask her the same questions back. So she'll be like, What I really think about bla bla bla in science class today, and I'll literally just repeat it back to her. So it's like, okay, so my science class today, you did a follow up blog and you had a fight with blah, blah, blah, because you didn't agree with the wind and science and water project, right? And she'd be like, yeah, and then that just gets her talking. And the reflecting back has been so amazing, because she's like, Wow, you're so present with me. And it feels super weird. Because you're like, repeating back what they're saying to you. And you don't judge you just like, kind of stand around and you're there. But it's been the most impactful thing. They love their special time.

Analiza: Oh, my gosh, Kathy, do you do that every day?

Kathy: Well, since I only get them 50% of the time, on the days that I get them. Yeah.

Analiza: Oh my gosh, that is beautiful. I want to do that. Okay. Let us go to lightning round. Are you ready? Okay, here we go.

Chocolate or vanilla?

Kathy: Probably Vanilla.

Analiza: Cooking or takeout.

Kathy: Cooking.

Analiza: Would you rather climb a mountain or jump from a plane?

Kathy: God definitely climbed a mountain, so anybody would probably jump from the plane.

Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Kathy: Nope. I'm not going to adopt my daughter's fashion faux pas. That's what she does.

Analiza: How would you rate your karaoke skills scale of one to 1010 being Mariah Carey.

Kathy: I'm barely allowed to sing at a bar mitzvah. You don't want me singing

Analiza: What's a recent book, you read?

Kathy: A bunch of rotations. But I recently read with Maya that it's like a comic book version of Sapiens, which is wonderful. It's a really thick book, but they have a comic book version.

Analiza: Sapiens comic book. Okay, sweet. What's your favorite way to practice self care?

Kathy: I do sound meditation. I have a dance instructor that comes every Tuesday and we do tick tock dances. I know, it sounds so ridiculous. I do primarily there's just like, you know, embarrassing my kids. But you know, we pick a song and we work through it. And I get great cardio out of it. Yes. And then we record it and it never gets posted. But I show my kids. They're so it's so cringy they're like never like literally my almost is like I don't even want to be around where my dance instructors are because she's like, it's so cringy.

Analiza: Okay, what's the good professional development you've done?

Kathy: recently? I would probably say, honestly, just being enrolled in YPO. And attending some of the, you know, like the large form training.

Analiza: Great. What's your definition of a Boss Mama?

Kathy: Boss Mama, hopefully you wake up and you're happy. You know? Let's just start there. You know, wake up happy and have no anxiety. And yeah,

Analiza: Great. What advice would you give your younger self Kathy?

Kathy: Life is almost very rarely how you plan it, you know, it's very rarely a linear path. And so long as you can sort of be open minded and resilient to it if you're going to be okay. Yeah, it's okay to not be an all in linear path.

Analiza: And where can we find you? Besides your website or LinkedIn anywhere like that?

Kathy: Yeah, you can find me on LinkedIn. It's Kathy Kuo KUO, we're all over social media, Instagram, for sure. Pinterest, as well. We pin every single day, every 15 minutes. I swear to God, there's a lady that pins every 15 minutes. It's amazing stuff we create. We're on LinkedIn, and certainly on our website. And you can certainly also do Interior Design Services with us to like having people home.

Analiza: And last question, final ask recommendation or any parting thoughts to share?

Kathy: I'm so so excited for honestly, where you're going with you know, your career. I'm really excited to see that there's more support given to Asian Americans and just really, really happy that there is just sort of this place now that we can all talk about sort of how our culture affects us. And so thank you for having me.

Analiza: Thank you, Kathy. Thank you so much for carving out time today to hear today's podcast. Three things before you go. First, if you found it helpful, please leave a five star review. Second, please share with someone else you can share the link and posts on Facebook and say check it out. Lastly, I want to thank you for being a listener and you can go to get a free self care bonus called juice your joy at analizawolf.com/freebonus. Thank you so much.