Analiza: Welcome to the Women of Color Rise Podcast. I'm Analiza Quiroz Wolf, proud Filipina American, mom of two, and former CEO of a nonprofit and Captain in the US Air Force. I'm on a mission to support having more diverse leaders at the table. We'll be talking with successful CEOs and C suite women leaders of color and learning about their leadership journeys. If you're a woman or woman of color, who wants a seat at the table, you're in the right place. Now let's get into today's show.

I am thrilled to be talking today with Elaine Miller Karas. She's the key developer of a very helpful model called the Community Resiliency Model and actually has a book called Building Resiliency to Trauma that talks about how helpful this model is to apply to all of our lives. So I'm thrilled to have her today. In fact, it's been such an important piece of work that the United Nations actually named it as one of the innovations helping meet the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals. In addition to being an author and developer of this model, she's also the co-founder and the director of the innovation of the trauma Resource Institute. She also consults with Emory University, they have an S E Learning Program that was launched and inspired by his holiness. I mean, who says that lean right, because the Dalai Lama? It does sound like Oh, my goodness, really, really? I know. Oh, my gosh, yes. And she also has her own podcast called resiliency within. So I'm so thrilled Elaine, that you're here, I'm a big fan of your work, we are just talking about how I use your work in my life, my professional and personal life. So thank you so much for being here.

Elaine: You're so welcome. I'm really excited to be here with you today and to share our kind of our ideas together about how we move to the world as women.

Analiza: Absolutely. So let's start there, Elaine, because as women of color and thinking about our roots, and you as a young girl, did you dream that you would be focusing on trauma that you would be writing a book, how did that tie in?

Elaine: I didn't know I was going to be doing those things. But when I reflect upon my life, my mother and grandmother emigrated to the United States from El Salvador. In fact, I have the photo behind me that is actually the family picture from El Salvador, that's very dear to me. But when I was 11 years old, I went to El Salvador for the first time, and what I grew up with was, I would say, an advantage in an area of the Bay Area where I never saw poverty. And when I went to El Salvador, I saw poverty for the first time. And I remember seeing a mother holding a baby, and thinking how I wanted to help that mother and baby if there was some way, you know, I could give them money or help them find food. But you know, as a little girl, I'm thinking these things. I'm not saying this to my relatives, and I was there for them. Also, without my mom and my grandmother, I was there all by myself with my mother's very beloved relatives. So I didn't say anything about it. But that memory is so seared into my very being that I think it inspired something in me that was almost unconscious, that, you know, here I was in another country being you know, raised in the Bay Area, and seeing this for the first time. And then for me to kind of naturally evolve as a human being and decide I wanted to become a social worker. And what social workers do there on the ground, they're working with people whose very variety of reasons haven't had the same advantage. And because I lived in California, I went to a school specifically that was dedicated to working with the Mexican American residents of the state, and really was brought in to all the Latin acts as we call them. Now, I'm I, you know, see myself as a Latina, but that was really important to me, because I saw the suffering that my mom and grandmother had, and it was a suffering that was not spoken. And I think I probably know that at least, right? When you come from a family that immigrated to another land, there are many things that they came away from that they came to, that they didn't want to share. And so as I learn more about their lives, I also realized that the suffering that that had happened and the suffering that also and I'm gonna, I'm going to call it transgenerational trauma. And when I think about it, my mother was her grandmother. I'm going to show you the photo because I just love it so much. And if you look at the center of the photo, the elder woman whose name was Magdalena, and Magdalena was my great grandmother. My mom is this person here. This is my grandmother here. And so when I see these three generations of women in my family, Magdalena never married my great grandfather because she was Am I from Guatemala, and my great grandfather was a Spaniard. And so he they had all these children together, but they were never married. And what was so interesting, and I guess the generations, my grandmother ended up having my mother out of wedlock. And then my mother had her first child out of wedlock. So when you see the generations of that, I really do think it has to do with that mark of colonialism, and who was entitled and who was not. And so I share that very personal story, because I think it has a very important context of growing up in families where their secrets where there's been a moving to a new land when they've come without speaking English. In fact, I'm named Elaine, because my mother worked pouring coffee at the St. Francis hotel in San Francisco. And the person who taught her English was a waitress named Elaine. And so I mean, I think but in any event, getting back to those kind of roots, there were many things that happened in our family, and many secrets that I think to this day, continue to make an imprint on our family that had to do with what happened, you know, many, many years ago in El Salvador,

Analiza: I mean, Elain, when we talk about generational trauma, it's not part of the curriculum. Even if you do some of the meditation curriculum, you might do an ancestry meditation. But there's more to our current experience that I personally did not know. Until the secrets. And even if I asked now, there's no Oblivion, because that's not the right word. But to say like, nothing happened, it's all fine. It's all meant to be, which, while I love that positive outlook to what's happened in the past, there's also the sense of, I can't share it, what's the value in sharing it, and I think that makes it harder to heal. So I guess when you hear me share that, and when you share your stories of generational trauma, and how your work connects to supporting healing, addressing it, I'd love to hear about that, because it's so powerful, have a photo with regenerative

Elaine: is connected, because, for example, I would say that my mom had some mental health conditions. I mean, you know, I can look back to some of the things that happened, you know, during my growing up, and I have, you know, understanding and kind of forgiveness for the things that have happened, but I think the reason why she didn't access necessarily mental health, mental health practitioners was because it was not in her context, because part of our family culture was keep it in the family do not share outside the family. And you know, it's so deep in shame. And I think some of that shame is transgenerational shame of growing up in mixed races between the Spaniards, who, and also the indigenous cultures. And I understand that now, but I didn't understand it then. But my mother was also very Catholic. You know, she had rosary beads, she went to church every day, if the priest would have said to her, Oh, LC, there is a class about well being after mass today, you may want to come to that class, it makes people stronger, and family stronger. And I think that's what the community resiliency model does. But you understand that it wasn't designed for emancipated individuals with so much of the Western approach to psychotherapy, for example, is really designed for emancipated individuals going to see a private individual therapist, it's not designed for the community, which I think that community resiliency model is exactly that. Because if you learn those wellness skills, and there's by the way, many people who would have integrated the wellness skills, a little classes workshop, in faith communities around the world, is that is something that as you cultivate your well being you can share it with your children and with the elders in your family, is that really is a community of well being then and you know, we talk about stress contagion, let's talk about well being contagion. Because when you just kind of that proverbial dropping that little pebble in the stream, and seeing those concentric circles go out, I think that's what happens when we cultivate and we learn about how we can expand our well being and that doesn't mean you know, the practices, let's say if my mom the rosary, which I you know, I actually love saying the rosary myself. And so, that is a practice that I know that when she practiced she had an experience of well being and so if you're practicing the rosary or any kind of ritual for your particular faith, and you notice what's happening inside your body, it actually magnifies your well being. So we're not taking away we're adding to if that makes sense, adding to the rich culture and traditions that exist around the world and say, what would it be like if you added some other ingredients to it and maybe some other skills, that is again, not taking away but adding to

Analiza: I love that we're already using what we have, and that these are one skills that can be used across generations, but to that we can leverage even religion to notice and amplify and that In your work, Elaine talking about adverse childhood experiences, the ACE score, if we think about those questions, you also include in your work, racism, prejudice, and I want to actually go back because your story is so powerful about your aunt, your uncle, not having gotten married the Spanish, your uncle being Spanish, your aunt being of indigenous Mayan heritage, and I want to talk about that because there's a piece of generational trauma, then there's a piece of colonialism that's often not spoken about. And not only that, but we don't go deeper to say, Well, what did I actually internalize? So here's what happened in history. Okay, so we didn't get married. I'm going to share that with you. And that had an impact on what I believe about myself. So I'd love to go there. Because especially when we think about the Latinx culture, even Latin the Latin day, it's evolving into not wanting to pigeonhole in terms of gender. I'm wondering, Elaine, what's your view on thinking about Latin X? Latina is the Latina yourself, and having that identity of indigenous? Versus? Yeah,

Elaine: yeah, well, first of all, it was my great grandmother, and my great. Okay. So when I think about that, I do think there was an embodied shame. We'll just think about that. You know, how you're supposed to be married, you know, within, even within the Catholic Church, I just think it's so interesting. I didn't even know the complete story. When I was 18, I went back to El Salvador again. And then I had a maid, it was actually my mother's godmother, who told me the whole family history. And it was quite astonishing, actually, because I didn't know these things. And she, you know, explained to me about the family, and about, you know, all the women not being married to the partner to the fathers of their children. And with that society at that time, there were the very rich and the very poor. But then there were the people that were in the middle that were born to kind of the people of means, but didn't have status, because of who their mother was. When I went to El Salvador when I was 18. I was reading Tolstoy and I'm going, this is really a lot like what I'm seeing right in front of me, right? Because I didn't realize that my mom, for example, was born into a family that had means, but she had no status, if that makes sense. So I think that's happened to many families throughout the world. I think there's an embodied shame. And I think that shame is part of what propelled my mom to leave the little village called a tiki saya where she was born and come to the United States where she could start afresh, but she didn't leave the shame behind. So if I said, you know, oh, look at I can I think that, you know, my great grandmother, I think she was my mom. And she said, Oh, no, she was Irish. I mean, I mean, if you look at the picture, she's clearly not Irish. And I've had my DNA done. I have, like, you know, 12% indigenous in my DNA from that region of the world. But you see, what, why would she say that, because of the shame of being mixed race. And it wasn't that she didn't love her grandmother, because she did. But there was such a shame of wanting to leave that behind as if it was a scarlet letter. And so then you come to a new country, but you really haven't left the shame behind. So then it gets translated like, make sure that you're always dressed. Well make sure you're always saying proper language, make sure you always are left with, I guess I'm just not quite right. Right. I'm not good enough. And how many times have we spoken to other women all around the world that are not good enough. I also want to mention something else, because I know that your podcast is called Women of Color. It also for me as growing up with many colors in my family, I am very light skinned like my mom. And so there also is that discordance between how I view myself and how others view me. And I've obviously had the advantage of being a lighter skin, Latina. But I think that also, if you saw my older sister, she has a complexion like yours, there was all this thing about the color of our skin that also left a mark on all of us. Yeah, I wished I was lighter or I wished I was darker. Like, I wished I was like everyone else.

Analiza: Right. And the idea of not fitting in with a sense of belonging, while having the privilege of being white passing. There's also the internalized.

Elaine: There's another part, my mother had a very heavy accent. And so we would go into stores and I know many people have had this experience if their parents are the first generation and they would talk to me rather than my mom, as if somehow because I didn't have an accent that I was the more intelligible of the two of us. My mother would get very upset about it. And she was very outspoken, so she would go talk to me. She's a little girl, which not everybody would do, right? And sometimes there isn't the advantage of your parent may be speaking English well enough that children are often put in the role as the translator or the interpreter of what's going on. And so then you're placed in situations beyond yourself, but there were a lot of little microaggressions. I can remember a person who became a very dear friend. She said to me, I'm so sorry that your mother's an alcoholic. And I said, what? My mother's not an alcoholic? She goes, Well, why does she talk so funny? I mean, she didn't. She was like a little girl. She didn't know about accents. And she had moved to our community from Ohio. I guess there weren't many Latin x's, or Latinos in Ohio. But you know, when you're a little girl, and you're hearing that, you're also getting there's all this other piling on of lumber of how people are saying you're somehow different.

Analiza: I want to go back building on your point, Elaine, to not feeling enough. And often we chalk that up to women of color. First, we're not male, and then of color. We're not white. And then we have immigration, history of immigration. Maybe we're born outside the country, our parents had accents, we didn't quite fit in for assimilating. But as you think about your own story, and even the research you've done, this not enoughness is pervasive. And it's really tough on the soul, no matter what you do, you still don't feel like enough when we both have Stanford degrees, some of what? When is enough, right? And so I'm curious, talking about the root cause. what else comes to mind for you, as you think about this, not enoughness? And where does it come from?

Elaine: But that's a really good question. I wish I had all the right answers for that. And Elisa, I don't know, I'll give you some impressions. But I certainly don't have all the answers. I think that if you grow up in a culture, and that shame gets transported to another country, right? That shame becomes almost you swallow it. So it's like, you're always striving to show that you belong. I belong here. I'm not an accident. I am a person who has thoughts and feelings and emotions and sensations, and my ideas matter. And so I think that when you have been in that position, and I think it starts with colonialism, right? The conquering of the, of you know, the Spaniards did horrible things. But people did horrible things all over the world, I've you know, I've worked in parts of Africa and other parts of the world, we're seeing the ramifications of colonization, and how that gets involved in splitting people away from each other. And also with that worldview of I'm just not good enough. So if, you know, like I said, if my skin was a different color, if my hair was different, if I was smarter, if I was a different gender, I mean, all those different things that go into the soup. So, you know, I think that we inherently will swallow the suffering of our parents. I don't think it's conscious. It's an unconscious mechanism. So how do we get out of that? And for me, I was a very shy child, as well. And I didn't know I had a voice. And you know, where did that come from? I certainly have had a voice in my adulthood. But you know, when I tell people Oh, I was frightened to speak in front of others. But I think part of that was like, if you speak, you could shame us. And if that makes sense to you, if you speak, you know, you could shame us. And you know, when I did my internship at Stanford, I mean, that's a perfect example, oh, my gosh, I've chosen to do this internship here, it was really important, but then it was always like, open, I'm a fraud, they're gonna know that they made a mistake to let me come and do my internship here. Right. I don't know, if you felt that too Analiza like, oh, my gosh, but you know, I've talked to so many people around the world. And I imagine you have to because that is an underlying belief of so many people, and they're telling me they don't feel good enough, I said, you know, you're gonna have to get a handle on that. Because how many PhDs are you going to need to get to believe that you are smart enough or good enough. And we've seen that in the world that we travel in. And I think part of my way of coming to a greater healing of myself, has been when I learn more about how my body is connected to my thoughts and my feelings. So if you think about every thought and feeling, including one that I'm not good enough, it has a corresponding sensation in the body. And I've actually done this. So the lane when you say, you're not good enough, what do you notice happening on the inside, there might be a tightness, and there also might be a little bit of lightness. Now, if I decided to focus on the tightness, Will that get less or more it actually expands the tightness, but I'll say, Okay, I'll pay attention that lightness, when I pay attention to that, it has the amazing thing of letting go of the tightness, I take a deeper breath, I can feel myself as a whole full body person, Mind, Body Spirit. And then the amazing thing that happens, there are meanings that come and the meaning that often comes as Oh, I am good enough. I've been a really good friend. I've been a good parent, I've been a fairly decent mom. And also I've been a decent friend and wife, and then all of a sudden I'm noticing what else is true and not in a narcissistic way but in an affirmative way and saying that is true. I often say what else could be true. And that's the other part. That's true. And I don't relish anyone suffering. But I also think that suffering, it can be the foundation of our well being so if we hadn't had the suffering maybe we wouldn't have the joy It comes from it, or the understanding of like the rich heritage that I grew up in. That still is very much a part of me. Even though it's, you know, I didn't grow up there, but it's embedded in me, I'm very proud of it, I have that photo. It always sits behind me. And I have this other photo I should have, if I can. That is a photo that I actually found of a southern Navajo woman, but it looks like my grandmother, when I saw that, I showed my siblings and go, that looks like we called her lucky because they wanted me to call her abuela. Lita, and I was too, I came up with licky. And she lived with licky for the rest of her life, but that face is my grandmother's face. And I always love that, because she would have held me in her arms, and in her hands. And she's always behind me, even though she died in the late 80s. So she's always with me. So I guess that's the other part of there's the, there's the embedded shame. But there's also the incredible endurance to leave, I always think, and Lisa to leave their country to come to someplace where you do not speak English, to say this life may be better than the life I've left behind. I don't know if I could do that. I have so much admiration for what they decided to do in their life. And what the advantage was, for me, I was the first one in my family to go to college. You know, my children are both college graduates, they both have advanced degrees. And so that now is continuing through the next generations. So I'm so proud of that, if it wasn't for their, you know, their stamina, and their courage and their bravery. And in spite of, you know, I could just see my mom, she came, she was going to work in the shipyards. I can't even imagine her working in the shipyards, she soon got a job pouring coffee at the St. Francis hotel, which I think was better suited for her right, just kind of an elegant person. So I thought, wow, she did all that she did all that for a better life for herself. That ended up being a better life for me and my siblings had a bunch of what a story about her. She was really spunky, but she was really nervous about taking any test. And so she never got her citizenship. And she was I think, at that time, probably well into her 70s. And at that time, they were about to pass some heinous laws in California with people who had green cards. And I said, Mom, I said, Why don't you just, you know, I'll help you. And so I was living in Southern California, and she was in the Bay Area. So I flew up many times. And we went over and over that pamphlet of all the questions about how to become a citizen. So she finally decided that she would take the test, oh, my gosh, she was so nervous. So I flew up to the Bay Area, I went with her for the exam. And I mean, she dressed up, she looked really beautiful. And she went in and she said, Mom, you're gonna be fine. She comes out. And she goes, I passed, I passed, I'm gonna be an American citizen. And she said, I knew so much. And they only asked me one question. She was upset that they didn't ask her everything that she knew. But I say that about her. Because she really had a lot of pride in coming to America, even before she got her citizenship, she was proud to be a person with a green card. And then when she actually got her citizenship, I mean, it was such an important milestone for her. And I'm so grateful that I was part of that journey with her. And my sister and my sister in law, we were all there together, and had a party for her. It was a big deal. And I imagine many people who have come from other lands know about the big celebration when people get their citizenship, as hard as it is, you know, to be an American these days. There's also advantage here that many people don't have in their countries of origin

Analiza: Elaine when we think about this arc of your family. And even when you apply it today and to ourselves, I'm hearing a few things because I'm always about how can we take lessons and then think about application, this idea of not feeling good enough, not impostor syndrome, not worthy, is a pervasive ill that many of us share through capitalism and not being the standard that has been embedded in history from cultures of shame, in which we then inherit, because it's in secrecy, and when to lift the hood and understand the system and also understand our own histories, and that there was trauma, and also a lot of beauty, that this sacrifice that our parents, grandparents our elders made on behalf of, more often than not about the family has allowed us now to have this conversation to do the work. And in that work, there are strategies to interrupt generational trauma that include this community resiliency model, which is to ground ourselves in what is happening now this mind body connection, having the ability to choose which sensations to tune into, and it could be like, I'm so pissed My back really hurts. Let me just focus on my back and then amplify that or it could be okay. Well, I'm feeling some levity in me, some tingling in my face or wherever the tingling is, and perhaps that makes me feel lighter. And then I build on that because as we know, wherever I tend to go energy flows. And so I want to just talk about these impairments, right? Because there are ways of changing and interrupting the trauma. And I want to ask you a question about this. Because sometimes I hear from people that it's a positive way of focusing on what's working, and let's try to make our fields feel better, there's a better narrative. But then don't we just bury what's happened and actually not try to heal that I'd love to just get some perspective.

Elaine: First of all, and this is like, you know, remember, I'm an old trauma therapist. I mean, I've been trained in so many different ways. And I was always trained that you would have to talk about your trauma in order to heal from what's happened to you, I have learned that's not the case. For some people, it is important that you're witnessed and heard. And it can be very empowering for someone to finally say, oh, my gosh, I've had the same experience, or I hear you, I'm listening to you. But for others, whatever happened to them, they may have told the story so many times that they don't want to tell it one more time. Or I've also worked with people because of what they did as part of their trauma, let's say if you were a soldier in war, that you don't want to tell someone what you did, because you're ashamed of it. Not only are you ashamed of it, but you don't want to re-traumatize yourself or someone else by telling the story, I honor that perspective of why someone may not want to share it. But at the same time, I will say if you want to share it, I'm here to listen. For some people, it's beneficial, and for others, it's not. So what I have learned is that we all have a nervous system. And it reacts pretty much the same way. Whether we live in Tanzania, whether we live in the Philippines, whether we live in California, whether we live in New York, when we experience stress and trauma. But we're also I think it's so important to know that we're designed for healing. But if we only use it, and you know what you pay attention to flows, right, I use a garden metaphor, because most places on earth know about gardens, or their weeds and gardens all over the world. Yes. And if you plant vegetables, and you want to have a hearty harvest, if you only watered the weeds in your garden, would your vegetables grow in the same way? Well, we know the answer to that though that wouldn't be because we're not putting enough nourishment in that part of what we want to grow. And I say that we are also part of nature. And so if we want to expand our well being it's not that we're not leaning into the suffering and knowing that's happened to us. But then what else is true, because so much of the way the West has designed interventions has been about us gaining insight into what's happened to us saying, Oh, it wasn't our fault, we can go forward. But that doesn't necessarily change the nervous system. So let's say if something happened to us when we were little, and there was a person with, let's say, a certain kind of cologne that attacked us. And so we went to therapy. And we learned that it wasn't our fault that we were there at that place. At that time, we're feeling better, but you're in the grocery store, and you're buying vegetables and someone with that same cologne walks by you, you're actually in a safe place. But all of a sudden, your heartbeat starts to beat fast, you're terrified, you leave your groceries in the cart, and you get into your car and you drive home. And you don't even know why. It's because we have multi sensory reminders that we hold that part of our body holds to remind us of when we were having existential events. And when those reminders come in, our nervous system reacts as if the trauma could happen in the present moment. It's designed that way, it's actually pretty elegant right to keep us alive. But if we don't know about that system, it's called implicit memory. If we don't know that exists, and that happens to us, we might think, I think I'm just crazy, I don't know why I left all my groceries in there. And I don't even know what made that happen. Because you may not have connected the smell of Cologne to the reactions in your body. So that's when you say about the intercepting of experiences of trauma, that when we learn how and we call it reading the nervous system, some people call it body literacy in neuroscience or calling it interoceptive awareness, the ability to just notice what's happening in your body. And that when people learn and they can actually expand their learning of paying attention that they can have better control of their emotions, better impulse control, because for example, if there's one of my triggers happened to me, and I have, by the way, four aces, and I often will feel my ears getting hot. That is my indicator that Oh, something could happen to me where I might feel that sense. So now when I feel up, and I sense the hot ears, I know immediately at that time, I can feel my feet on the ground or my hand on the table. I can do one of the we call them help now strategies that maybe having a glass of water and all of a sudden my ears cooled down. I'm back into my zone of well being now. I haven't talked about what's happened to me, but I've helped my nervous system settle. And maybe later I'll have ideas going high. When did that happen, but I feel better now. And I might even say you know right now I'm good enough. That could actually be a thought that I could have when we experienced that well being in the body. And I think that's been one of those profound learnings. Is that our sensations and cultivating, you know, your garden, it's literally your garden of well being not only affects how we feel, in the sense ourselves, but what we think about ourselves in the world. And one of the surprising side effects, I didn't know that was going to happen when I first had this, this idea with some others to create the Trauma Resource Institute, that what happens Analiza has, oftentimes people talking about shame, will have more self compassion. And when you have more self compassion, you know, oftentimes there's greater self forgiveness. And also, when I look at someone else who's suffering, or maybe who's perpetrated something against me, I have more compassion towards them. And so what if we all could learn how to do that? How might that change the world? In that, because compassion, you know, the Dalai Lama, Jesus, the great spiritual leaders of the world, Abdullah, high, they all talked about compassion. And if we can cultivate that, and that it is possible, this is one of the reasons why I love the learning program at Emory University, because the idea of His Holiness was that How are children learning how to be compassionate? If there's been you know, if organized religion isn't as present? If you know families are disrupted? How do children learn that? And if we could have a curriculum that was available in all schools, accessible to all countries, in many languages? How might that change children and I have to say, I've seen it, and it's in many schools around the world, many continents, and children are learning how to track their nervous system, and their learning, lessons of compassion. One little girl said to me, when I was in India, in 2019, I had the joy of interviewing the children who had participated in learning on stage. And they asked me if I would ask them what they liked best, and what they would change. And so one little girl said, Well, I really liked chapter two, of course, that made me very happy. But she said, But Chapter Two should be Chapter one. Because if you're not in your zone of well being, it's very hard to be compassionate. I thought, oh, my gosh, that was like a 10 year old. I mean, if a 10 year old knows that, and if you can expand that outward, how might that change children and then that and children then change their families and their community, and that we have a more compassionate world. And I'm, you know, one of the things I think that's heartbreaking to me about our news media, for example, is that we focus so much on all the hearts in the world. And not all the goodness is happening in the world, like I belong to an organization called Catalyst. 2030. And these are thinkers around the world that are really making some great efforts to think about the scalability of well being whether it's, you know, solar, whether it's climate change, whether it's mental health, all these different, and these are folks that are working actively starting nonprofits, NGOs, in many continents. And really, what else is true, but do we get enough attention on that? I don't think so. Because I mean, of course, it's like the tragedies of the world, like this morning, waking up to yet another mass shootings in the United States, you know, how we've had 57 so far. And of course, that gets the attention and needs attention in terms of how we mitigate that, how do we change that. But at the same time, then there's so many good projects that are working with people that are suffering that can help,

Analiza: the expansiveness of the work that you do and your team does with the community resiliency model is astounding, because not only is it applicable to us adults, but it's applicable to our kids, and that quote, you shared from that little rural, that when we say in our states of well being that's our most loving selves, I haven't flipped my lid with my brain. And I can actually stay in dialogue. And imagine what could happen when we pay attention to the beauty around us. I'm actually feeling lighter as I listen to this.

Elaine: There's one other subject I don't want, I want to make sure that we touch upon and that's about being a woman and being a changemaker. There are many people who identify in terms of non-binary, male female, that embrace women's leadership. But there's a lot of systems that work to not embrace us. So I think that that has probably been the hardest part of being a woman who's been a change agent is coming up against what I'll just say is say it patriarchal systems that are not necessarily set up to embrace women and women's gifts. And even in higher education, or in places where you would think oh, well, America, we have, you know, gender equality, well, yes, to a point. But then there also is what the unconscious mechanisms of how people set up systems that still can be very oppressive towards women. And so, you know, I've had some experiences where I have met some of the great leaders of the field and I'm in, but I think part of it in hindsight, certainly there can be errors and how we come forth. Sometimes that happens to all All of us. But I think that one of the things that we can't change, right where we show up as ourselves, you know, I identify as, you know, a cisgendered woman and a Latin X. And as a mother, a grandmother, a wife, a sister, I think a good friend. And yet I can approach someone who is in leadership, who has a lot of renown, thinking that they would be a person that would be embracing of new ideas and innovation, and find that may not be the case. And I found that with some men, and even some women, because I think that this is a hard thing to even say some of the worst misogynist behavior has been swallowed by women, that is, can be directed towards other women who are coming with ideas that are innovative to change the world. So I don't think it's over at least I'd certainly love to get your impression of that, but I think it's something that we have to grapple with. When we're a woman and we're a change agent.

Analiza: Thank you for naming that. It's often not talked about Elaine, this idea of being in the seats of I'll call it power, because it is that there comes a wall of racism and sexism, and surprisingly, from people who have, you'd think would be most compassionate women, white women, sometimes women of color. And it's so sad, because the job is already hard. And you're trying to do all this work, but then to face that, and hoping to make change for all of us. There's this barricade, and I don't know, Elaine, when you've done this work, besides trying to build your own resiliency, my own resiliency to come back every day positive, how have you found? One, how do you take care of yourself personally, to keep coming back and knowing the possibility of being treated that way. But then I don't know if you can see ways of changing that I haven't gone to the second part, I'm just trying to self care. But any thoughts on that?

Elaine: Well, I think one of the things is I certainly have made errors, I tried to ask for forgiveness, I try to learn from my mistakes. I'm not gonna say everything correctly all the time, I'm not even with my best intentions. That doesn't mean my best intentions are taken well. And I certainly have been the kind of person that wants to bring people together, and certainly not to offend. And I know that I have offended, but again, not with intention. So I think that if we can self-reflect, and if we have the possibility to go back to people and have conversations about, oh, I really get that this is what I said, and this is what I've learned. And I promise you, I will try never to do that again. And you know, it's not really up to me, whether I'm forgiven, I can ask for forgiveness. But I don't know whether that's going to happen or not. I have really wonderful allies, friends, and family that have been my supporters and continue to be my supporters. But also there have been times and I think this happens with many of us that I haven't taken, I've taken better care of the world that I have of myself, I'm sure I'm not alone in that. And so it's being reminded that, okay, I'm going to take my walk today, I'm going to spend some time doing the things that don't nourish me. I mean, what nourishes me may not nourish you. I love what I mean, I have to kind of admit, it's kind of sometimes embarrassing to admit that I think I deal so much with trauma that I often watch the Hallmark Channel. And it's because that, you know, almost every time it ends with a kiss, and it ends with people like self reflective about something they've done that's been wrong and trying to, you know, make amends. And it's a very simple show. It's definitely something that is not necessarily something that is designed by great thinkers, but there's so much kindness in it. And I just have to be reminded sometimes of the kindness and generosity that works in the world. And remembering the stories that I hear like from, you know, I've had this project in Ukraine for the last year. And I have learned to just love so many Ukrainians a country that I did visit once in 2019. But I've learned so much from people suffering. And again, I get to kind of reflecting back to my own parents, my own grandparents and my mom coming here, and the bravery and courage and what I hear from Ukrainians every day, I recently had been contacted by a group working with Iranians with what the women are dealing with there and the families are, I'm going to be doing a presentation for them at the end of the month. I mean, I don't know what it's like to be a woman in Iran right now. I mean, the bravery that it takes to walk outside your door hoping that you make it to the grocery store. So I think about those things. Again, I feel like I've been so lucky. I've had a lot of advantages. But I don't think I take my advantage for granted. If that makes sense.

Analiza: Yeah, I'm hearing you say that there is in restoring relationships, being able to connect and own your impact on others. I'm also hearing this idea of having empathy for their situation, as well as this piece of empathy for yourself that we make mistakes and we're going to keep on making. We're not going to hold back. And then lastly, making sure we take care and I love this Hallmark the home like movies at all times? Yes, and owning that, because there's not enough I don't think goodness to be had in the media we just open up. It's just so sensational that a good hallmark is nice.

Elaine: Because, you know, Hallmark was recently taken over by a black woman. And there's so much more diversity, not only of you know, representing different cultures, but different gender identities, and they even had people LGBTQ represented. And that's why some people have left, but I'm just going yay, Hallmark. Do that, you know, we're moving into the modern age and you know, right. Know, there's other another thing too, for the women out there that are thinking about, you know, I have an idea, I want to start something I remember, you know, when you said did, I always know, one thing that did happen is that people would say to me, but I didn't experience it myself. And that was, oh, Elaine, you're always so outspoken. You're always saying what you think I didn't perceive myself that way, which I think is so interesting, because like, you know, like, I was like one of the youngest delegates to the Democratic Convention in 1972. I think I was, like, 18 years, 19 years old. But then I'm going, Why was I chosen? Again, that's not good enough. But I think, you know, to really reflect about how you show up in the world? what are people saying about you, maybe you're not able yet to see your gifts. And so what would have been that young lane of 19, maybe if I would have had some people in my life, then that would have embraced me and said, You know, it's very normal to not feel good enough. And so but to know that you are, and I'll be there for you. And if you want to talk about the times that you have wobbly feet, or there's a tightness in your belly, you're not sure if you should go forward, know that I am here for you. And I will embrace you and walk behind you. You take the first steps, but I'm behind you, like I'm your I can be a shadow, you're the light, and I can be the shadow. And I can be there to answer questions. I've been there before. Before you and I'm here to be behind you now as you take your own journey.

Analiza: I love that. Oh my gosh, because we can narrate for people our children are absolute people who come after us that it is normal not to feel good enough. And yet they are and I'm here however I can be helpful to shine light. So beautiful with that. Elaine, I want to move to lightning round. Are you ready?

Elaine: All right, okay. Okay.

Analiza: Chocolate or vanilla.

Elaine: Chocolate

Analiza: cooking or takeout?

Elaine: takeout

Analiza: climb a mountain or jump from a plane?

Elaine: Climb a mountain?

Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Elaine: Absolutely.

Analiza: So confident. I love that answer. How would you rate your karaoke skills on a scale of 1 to 10? 10 being Mariah Carey?

Elaine: Oh, oh, five.

Analiza: What's a recent book you read?

Elaine: It's actually right on my desk. It's how emotions are made by Lisa Feldman Barrett, wonderful neuroscientist?

Analiza: What's your favorite way to practice self care?

Elaine: Walking in the mountains in Johnson's pastures? to Best Buy House Beautiful. Looks like Ireland?

Analiza: What's a good professional development you've done?

Elaine: I think one of the best ones I've done was the Myers Briggs training.

Analiza: What's your definition of a boss, Mama?

Elaine: Bass Mama. No definition. I don't want to be someone's Mama, I want to be someone's colleague, and be there together. Or sometimes being behind saying hi, you can do it?

Analiza: And what advice would you give your younger self?

Elaine: It's going to be okay. You know, we've been talking about you're good enough. and follow your dreams. Don't be. Don't take what some men say to you. As defining, you have your own way to define yourself in the world. And it's not dependent on what even others have done. But it's how you're synthesizing the reality that you're perceiving and how you might be able to make a better world. And you're going to be surprised at what's possible.

Analiza: And then where can we find you like LinkedIn? Of course you have your resiliency within podcasts anywhere else?

Elaine: Yes. And also well, they can also climb me through the trauma Resource Institute, they can send me a personal email at Elena at resiliency within.com If they want to contact me, and going to the trauma Resource Institute is I think is a good place to go because it shows the amazing work that myself and others have done and continue to do and I know will continue to do after I'm dust in the wind.

Analiza: And then last one, do you have a final ask recommendation or any parting thoughts to share?

Elaine: I would just say that is giving yourself grace. You know, sometimes it's easy for us to give others grace and understanding and forgiveness and could you just turn a little bit of that around for yourself and take in the advice that you give others and perhaps give it to yourself? It may be really helpful. All the wisdom lies within you. I guess that's what I've learned as a little lady. I'll never forget her after the horrible typhoon in the Philippines. I was in Toke Lavon. And we were sharing our skills with people. And one little lady said, Thank you for reminding me what I already knew but had forgotten. I think that's a nice way to end.

Analiza: That's beautiful. And with that, Elaine much gratitude for all the wisdom and the stories. I feel like we could go on and on for hours, but I'm so so grateful. Thank you for your work. Thank you for the impact. And thank you just for being you.

Elaine: Oh, thank you, Analiza, it was such a joy to meet you. And it's it was a joy to be here with you. Thank you for the conversation.

Analiza: Thank you so much for carving out time today to hear today's podcast. Three things before you go. First, if you found it helpful, please leave a five star review. Second, please share with someone else. You can share the link and posts on Facebook and say check it out. Lastly, I wanted to thank you for being a listener and you didn't go to get a free self care bonus called juice your joy at Analizawolf.com/free Bonus. Thank you so much.