Analiza: Welcome to the Women of Color Rise Podcast. I'm Analiza Quiroz Wolf, proud Filipina American, mom of two, and former CEO of a nonprofit and Captain in the US Air Force. I'm on a mission to support having more diverse leaders at the table. We'll be talking with successful CEOs and C suite women leaders of color and learning about their leadership journeys. If you're a woman or woman of color, who wants a seat at the table, you're in the right place. Now let's get into today's show.

I'm thrilled today to be talking with Marcelle Fowler. She's the Chief Coaching Officer of a C Suite Coach. It is a multimillion dollar black women owned business. And it's all about empowering diverse professionals to coaching Diversity, Equity and Inclusion programming. So perfect Marcelle, because, you know, we serve women of color. And it's interesting because Marcelle brings to this coaching world 30 years of experience in organizational effectiveness, talent development, communications, and she's worked with companies like Capital One. She's also coached people, from frontline managers to C suites, to county police chiefs, and even Navy commanders. So really breath, really nice breadth of experience. And it's all about how to help leaders feel confident, be present, and have their authentic voice so they can feel powerful from the inside out. She's also a writer, she's writing for the Black Enterprise magazine, and a mom of two young adult boys. I'm really excited to have you, Marcelle, thanks for joining us.

Marcelle : Oh, thanks for having me today. I'm excited to be here.

Analiza: So Marcelle, I want to talk about your journey. Because coming from your background, your identity, how did this shape your path? Did you imagine you would be the chief coaching officer? Did you imagine you'd be a coach at all?

Marcelle : No, not at all. In fact, earlier in my career, I didn't even know about coaching. It wasn't until a friend of mine went into coaching and had a great experience and said, Hey, you should try this, that it occurred to me so not what I thought about initially, but so glad that I did.

Analiza: And how about your identity as a black woman? How did that shape even your career path?

Marcelle : Sure. Well, I think it started early on, you know, my mom was a respiratory therapist at a hospital. And she always, you know, hospitals are amazingly diverse in terms of their staff. And she always brought home people from different nationalities and cultures, she already always brought on food and the sense of - try things, experiencing, get to know people for who they are. And that always stayed with me because it was never about a fad. It was always about connecting with people and learning and being curious about their backgrounds. So to be able to go into a firm, where it again, it's not about a fad. It's not about oh, now we're going to start focusing on people of color because of what's happening out in the social environment. No, this is who we are. And we remain curious about connecting with people across different cultures and nationalities and coaching people who may not have had access to coaching. So that thread has gone through all of my life.

Analiza: I love the connection Marcelle you make to mom. Our moms are such presences and her impact of Let's experience the world. And let's get to know people for people first. And that's I think the essence as both coaches you and I that's about the connection, the real authentic connection. And when we dive into even diversity, equity inclusion, we're just talking about connection like human to human connection without all of the yes, we are of a certain race and have certain color, economic status. But can we connect as people? So thank you so much for that and the story. Marcelo actually wants to dive because you are a coach, and you have so many different types of clients. Can we talk about women of color, and people coming to you to say, you know, I really want to rise up in the career ladder. what are just general themes where you're seeing, you know, this is the types of locks that I see with my clients and trying to climb up and have impact,

Marcelle : or one of the big ones is confidence. There are so many things around us that are telling us that somehow we can't do something, we're less than we don't belong in the space and that's where you hear that whole imposter syndrome or impostor anxiety as well. It's recognizing the things that we bring to the table and not being ashamed to brag a little too. To remember those things about ourselves to recall them, either to help ourselves or when have I experienced this before and done well, so that I can help myself in the moment, but also in terms of just recognizing I belong here. And I deserve to be here because I am capable of if not, if I haven't done this before, I at least know I can figure things out. So helping women with that confidence is a big one.

Analiza: And can you talk about myself for you? If you ever had to overcome impostor syndrome? Or just starting to lean into believing? Do you remember a moment or just a place in which you're able to overcome it?

Marcelle : Oh, yeah. Maybe too many that I can think of. I think one of the biggest ones for me was a time when I was sitting across from the Senior Vice President of Communications for a major financial services company. And he asked me, what do you know about Project smile? And I didn't know anything about Project smile. So I said, Well, I've been told I have a great limb. And everyone that we were in a conference room, everyone around laughed in the team, he just kind of chuckled a little bit and said, Well, when the meeting is over, let's talk coming to find out he was interested in putting me in charge of the communications for one of the first major acquisitions for the company. I knew nothing about communications . I was, I think, a group communications manager. I knew about it, but certainly knew nothing about acquisition communications and hadn't done anything with mergers and acquisitions in my background, but I knew that I didn't want to say no. So to be able to say, You know what, I'll figure it out. I'll read, I'll talk to people, I'll be honest, when I don't know, I'll check in with people who maybe have done something either that or something similar. I'll check my network, I just knew that there were going to be ways to figure it out. And that I was confident in them, even if I wasn't confident in that specific subject matter.

Analiza: So I'm hearing from you, Marcelle, it is normal to feel like you don't belong as women of color, and the society, the type of structures that we operate in, set it to be that way. So we're not alone. And then second, knowing that we have, and it's common to have this mindset, there are things we can do. And a lot of that grounds is I will figure it out. There will be new things like Project smile, or whatever it comes across. And I will make sure I ask questions to my network, to not feel like I am not able to show it's not about vulnerability. It's about vulnerability, but not weakness, right, asking for a sign of strength. Yeah.

Marcelle : And not only that, but it's also just recognizing that, yes, I was scared. Yes, I was nervous. But it was okay. You know, a lot of times we judge our feelings, and there's a term called Emotional agility by Harvard psychologist, Susan Davis, where we tend to judge emotions and think of them as good or bad versus it is what it is and just know what that emotion is telling us. So when I'm getting ready to give a big speech, or I have an important meeting, yes, I feel nervous. But that's okay. Just means that this is important to me. So rather than judging it up, oh, my goodness, I'm feeling nervous. This is horrible. I'm going to fail. Okay, I'm nervous. That makes sense. I've been here before. That's okay. So that's an important aspect of getting over impostor syndrome or anxiety is just leaning into that emotion, and being okay with it and not judging it and naming it something that doesn't feel scary versus nervous versus this is important. And this matters. And that's good.

Analiza: Nice. I love the storytelling here where I feel nervous. And therefore it's showing me it's important to me, and that's the narrative I will have. And I've been here before and I will overcome it. So good. So Marcelle, that was a really great theme. Thank you about just not feeling enough and how to overcome that. What's another theme that you see with women of color?

Marcelle : Sure. Well, we talked about impostor syndrome or impostor anxiety, confidence. Another one, I think, is just having difficult conversations. Often, people come to me for coaching. And it's, I'm not getting along with this person on my team, or I'm having trouble having a conversation with my boss. And often because we came up, especially women of color, feeling as though we have to make everyone else feel comfortable. It's difficult for us to be able to say this, it may be an uncomfortable conversation, but it's one that's necessary to have, and not letting people off the hook with oh, well, you know, everything's okay. Well, now, here's the behavior. And here's the impact that it had on me. And here's what I'd like to see differently. And so having that framework where I'm not just going to say, Oh, that's okay. Yeah, they did this and what am I going to do? You know, if you are empowered to say not address the individual, you did this and it was horrible. But here's the behavior. And here's the impact that it had on me. And being able to do that without being apologetic about it, or feeling like it's you, who needs to just internalize and deal with it is so empowering for women that I work with that I coach.

Analiza: I love that example. what else do you see, in addition to difficult conversations,

Marcelle : I think one of the other things that really has a shift lately is just, I think, coming off the pandemic, it's getting motivated again, and maybe even pivoting to something different. Whatever space I was in pre pandemic, I no longer feel as though I'm in that space. That's okay. And you know, I had one coach, who before the pandemic, was fine with her job and felt as though she was thriving and things were going well. And she got to a place where now wasn't satisfied. It wasn't fulfilling her, she felt stuck. There were a lot of organizational changes, but none seemed to work in her favor. So we talked about what would pivoting look like both internally and externally? And what steps would she take to explore both so that she can decide what's her next step. But part of that was just her recognizing, sometimes it's tough because you feel this, but you don't know how to express it. And that's one of the great things about coaching and having that conversation and in the coach asking you questions about it, you really come to realize, you know what, this is no longer serving me. So now I need to think about some other options. And then you work with your coach to figure out those options. And that's the path that she's on now. And this has been recently. So this is she's still on that path, but feeling better even about having that clarity of knowing that it's time to make some changes.

Analiza: Having a coach is, I think, so helpful, because in this time, it's hard to suss out with my new feelings and not feeling settled, what exactly is that coming from, and the coach had provided a safe space for us to explore. And it could mean that there's a change, or it could mean that there's, you know, you remain where you are, but to have a safe place to be able to process this so powerful. So I'm glad you're doing that for her. Absolutely. So Marcelle, one of the things that I have also noticed with women of color is this idea that when I want to rise in organizations, my work will speak for itself. And I really just got to focus on for example, as a communications person, be the best communications person, and people will see how great I am. And therefore they will tap me for the leadership positions, it's so obvious that that promotion should go to me. Right. And I don't know what happened to Meursault; they didn't pick me up. And I'm just curious, you know, have you seen this happen with women of color? And what themes are you seeing here too?

Marcelle : Yeah, all the time, unfortunately, all the time. And part of that is, I have one woman, a Latina, who culturally was told by her mother, just be grateful, be grateful for what you have. And if they want to give you more than be grateful for that, too. So it's just this thinking of, I just need to be grateful. And so I shouldn't put myself out there. Because if it's going to come to me, if it's meant for me, it'll just come for me versus the attitude of, you know, to whom much is given much as expected and saying, I've been given this responsibility and these opportunities, and it's important for those around me to understand what I'm doing with those opportunities to understand how I'm leveraging those and other opportunities. So she started speaking up more in meetings, taking on the right assignments, when I say right, because before she was taking whatever came to her because she was grateful versus saying no, you know, I don't think that that's the right opportunity. For me, I think that this one would be for someone. So in other words, someone more junior, here's where I can add the most value. And seeing it as a part of demonstrating the value that you had and what you're doing with the gifts that you've been given. So speaking up, saying that I deserve this because here's what I've done for the organization. And here's how I can get even more value at the next level. It's not only something that's nice to do, but it's a necessary thing. When you think of it from the perspective of what does the organization need from you, they need people who understand where the organization is headed and know how to help it get there and you sitting back saying they're going to know that I know isn't serving the organization nor you as well.

Analiza: Marcelle I see this too, with the people I support and even my own personal experience to be grateful. That's such an Asian value that we are so grateful to be here and yes, I will take on it's a party planning and some of these jobs that are female oriented Did that don't get recognized and are sort of menial and recognizing that we need to own our career, we need to speak up and share our value look for those projects that are strategic, that allow us to get a big business perspective and also grow our skill, right? It's not enough to be the best communications person on the team. There's other skills that we need to build. And so I'm curious for you when we're thinking about other skills versus just the technical skills which are important. What other skills do we call soft skills? But I'd love to get your thoughts on, what are these other skills? What are you seeing in terms of women of color really needing to lean in on these emotional intelligence skills?

Marcelle : Yeah, absolutely. And it's funny, because we're seeing a trend in the learning and development space where they're no longer even calling them soft skills. They're calling them essential skills. It's a recognition that skills such as communications and relationship management, and emotional intelligence in general, are essential, those aren't nice to have as may be implied by soft skills. And in order to rise in an organization, you have to be able to work effectively with others, and demonstrate that you can rise to the challenge in a situation without burning bridges as you go along. And so all of that is part of whether it's communications, whether it's relationship management, whether it's other aspects of motional, intelligence, with self awareness, and self management, all of that comes into play in order to be effective these days,

Analiza: Marcelle when you think about your own personal experience going past those strong technical skills that you developed. Were there any areas for you where you needed to really step it up with these essential skills?

Marcelle : Oh, gosh, yeah. One of those I, especially in working with other people throughout my career, one of my stops along the way, was as the director and the chief of staff office for the Chief Auditor of a major corporation, I don't know if I can say the corporation or not. But let's just say that and obviously a demanding job. And one of the things I'd recognize was, I'm not an auditor, I can't even play one on TV. If I'm going to be effective, I really need to be able to get to know people. Again, it goes back to what we talked about that I learned from mom, just lean into getting to know people from different backgrounds and experiences. And these were auditors there were also corporate security professionals, neither of which I had any knowledge about, but I knew how to connect to people, I knew how to get to know them and their stories and their backgrounds, and to see them as people, which by the way, also made it easier when conflict arose. Because it was easy to say, Hey, I know we had a challenge here. Let's talk about it. And let's figure out what we can do that can work for both of us. So when I say spending the time to build relationships, and not just be in your cubby hole, and it's not going out and partying at all, you know, office party, after hours, things I was a single mom raising two small boys, so there wasn't the after hours socializing. It's just taking those opportunities just a few minutes before meeting starts a few minutes at the beginning of the day, sometimes lunch, sometimes coffee, connecting with people on an individual level.

Analiza: The idea Marcelle that as a single mom of two young boys that you may time to go beyond being an auditor, to actually connect with others and taking what mom taught you connect with others, especially people from different experiences, get to know them personally, and how that sets you up to build your network, share what you're working on. And also to have difficult conversations and you gave us that really great framework of how to do that. This is great because so many of these essential skills, which I appreciate that new terminology, it is about how do I go beyond myself? How do I go beyond this mindset of just being grateful, right? And then manage that mindset to say actually, I know, part of my career and part of this impact on this job is to build my skills, be more bird's eye view of what's going on in the company to show value and then to connect with people. So that there's a network that helps you not just personally but also helps you with your job. So can we talk about that piece to Marcelle because that idea because I'm so busy Marcelle, how can I possibly make the time I'm a single mom. You know, my two boys are so cute, but they're a lot and I don't. I mean, how do I deliberately maximize my time I hear you before meeting chat with my friend. Okay, you know, maybe I'll do something of being a day away that people I mean, is that enough, Marcel? Like, what how do I do this in a really deliberate way given I've got no time and I don't have the after hours opportunities. How do I really capitalize on my minutes a day to do networking effectively if I want to be a leader in this organization?

Marcelle : Yeah, you raise a great point. And you have so many minutes in a day, right, and you have your outside of work commitments. And that's the thing I want people to realize is it doesn't have to be outside of work. I've heard so many people I coach talk about, oh, they love to get together. And I don't want to well don't. Because again, you want to be authentic. And it's important to figure out what will work for you. So one of the things I used to do is call people on the ride in and if you haven't, if you're commuting, you can do either calling people you can do if you're riding a train or whatever you could do texting people, but just enough to say, hey, thinking about you, hope everything's going well, just to check in with people is something simple that you're in the car anyway, or you're on the train anyway, you're in transit, anywhere, you're in traffic, depending on where you live. So there's that opportunity to just check in with people and think about how you're spending your time to on social media. If you have time for tick tock, then maybe you have time for sending a message on LinkedIn or just celebrating someone's accomplishment on LinkedIn. So balancing those things that you do have time for, and not saying, don't do those things. Because hey, in the morning, I just need to play.. what is it? what version of Candy Crush or Solitaire and I don't want to connect and so not saying taking that away, but also recognizing there are probably spots in your day where you can do both the habit stack? Do a little bit of this while you're doing that, you know,

Analiza: That's fantastic. And what do you think, Marcelle about not just how I connect, whether it's on my commute, or it's through LinkedIn? How about who I connect with? How do I decide if there's any deliberate way of connecting with specific people and how I should approach them? Any thoughts on that?

Marcelle : One of the things is getting again, getting over that fear, and that impostor anxiety, and reaching out to your network to say, hey, here's someone else I'd like to connect with. And this is honestly, for me, it's been a challenge to where there have been times in my career where, you know, I wanted to connect with someone and I said, Oh, no, they're here. And I'm here. I don't want to bother them. You'd never know until you try. And there have been times when I've tried to connect with people, and they blew me off. Okay. But there are other times when I've tried to connect with people, and they welcomed it, and said, Hey, sure, welcome to my network, and happy to have you and let me know if you need anything. So avoid self selecting to opt out, you know, is what I would say. And also just recognize that your network needs to be broad that, like we were saying before, not everyone needs to look like you. And there are different ways to have shared experiences. We're so diverse as individuals in terms of our upbringing and our family situation, chances are that there are things that are alike for us with other people that we don't even realize, because we're just looking at the surface.

Analiza: I want to build off that point, Marcelle, because it's ideal, right? If I looked at you, and like, oh, black woman, I love that we can have this shared experience as mothers, as people of color as women who are trying to have impact in the world, in our organizations. And yet, there's not that many, and you have a certain amount of time, and you're a single mom. So it's important that we go beyond as women of color, not just people who look like us, or we have this shared, you know, we're both moms, but actually to think there is a lot of opportunity to connect with people who may not look like us, but have these shared experiences, and also are positioned in a place to advocate for us, whether as mentors or sponsors. And I have to say, as someone who has been, I believe, this word grateful, but I have had mentors who have opened doors for me sponsors, introduced me to their people, and a lot of them actually have been white male people. So I want to note that to myself, because in our networks, research has shown women of color tend to lean into other people who look like us, but we're missing out on people who have power, who are often white males. And we're curious if you have any examples for your own life or people who you coach where you've had them look when they develop their networks to people who don't resemble them, but have been very helpful in their career development. Does anything come to mind for you there?

Marcelle : Yeah, well, one example that actually set me on the path to being a coach is I was in a role where I was supporting the communications for the chief financial officer of a certain business line. And part of what I was doing was also working with the HR team doing some leadership development programming, but as their communications person when the time came for an HR role to open With a generalist where you're now they're calling, you know, HR business partners I wanted to apply which, as an aside, typically women don't apply for roles unless they have all the specific criteria. I knew I had some transferable skills. I didn't have all the criteria, but I had some transferable skills. So I was willing to apply, which is more like what men do. It's like, Yeah, I think I could do this. Women are like, I need to have everything. But I had enough where I felt comfortable and wanted to apply. Well, lo and behold, my relationship with him was what put me over the top for other candidates, because he was the CFO for this business line. They're looking for an HR person, of course, they're gonna Hey, you've worked with Bobby Bobby Magneto, by the way. Hi, Bobby. We, you know, he said, You're great, we should hire you. So absolutely put you in. So recognize that those conversations happen behind the scenes more often than we'd like. And more often than we realize. And so being able to network with and work with those white men is essential is critical, because it pushed me over the top of other candidates, some of whom were probably more experienced, and I have a deeper HR background.

Analiza: That example is fantastic, because, frankly, that's how these decisions are made. We have these scorecards, we have interview questions, we have specific evaluators that are meant to decrease bias. But frankly, at the end of the day, Marcelle, there's a lot of protocol tendency to just hire who we like. And usually that happens based on people who look like us or went to similar schools. But in this case, you had this relationship established with him, Bobby, and he likes you, you did a great job. And so yeah, maybe you didn't exactly have all the things on the job description. But that relationship is what got you the job and helped you sit on this path. And now you're this star coach, but thank you to him. I mean, thank you to that. So and thank you, to you for taking the time to develop that network. So what a great example. Marcelle, I'm curious, we've talked about so many different things, and I was so appreciative that this is your area of expertise. Are there any other pieces where gosh, you know, for women of color, if they only knew or if they only did that would really catapult them in their career, really get them on the path to being C suite, CEO, anything we haven't mentioned yet that you're in this podcast that you think might be helpful to know.

Marcelle : Yeah, it almost goes back to what I just mentioned in passing about, you see this opportunity. And you feel like you have to have or check all the boxes versus, you know, I think I can figure it out. Or I have most of them, I have done even most of them, I have some of them, I have enough to at least try. And that can even be on the entrepreneurial front where we feel like we have to know everything in order to make the business run versus let's get out of here and experiment is the saying goes build the plane while we're flying. It is not for everyone, but certainly in terms of how to catapult yourself, leaning into that discomfort of not knowing all the answers, but being willing to figure it out, being willing to pull in people to help you being willing to try to at least apply for things to least apply yourself to something that you really want is key, and recognize that the answers will come.

Analiza: That resonates so much. There's that quote by Oprah and I think she was talking with Brene Brown, but they're saying, you know you need to, you can have courage, and comfort, but you can't have both. When there's a situation if you decide, Oh, I've got to have all of those things on the job description, or I've got to play it safe. This is what I know. Let me stick with that lane. That's the path that you're choosing, or you can lean into discomfort, but that's about courage. And actually knowing that there's a choice here, and by deciding to play it safe. We're also self selecting out and that doesn't have anything to do with your talent. You could be ready and frankly white men do this or like you know, not gonna do that. Yeah, why not? I've never done any of that before but I feel good and you're flying. Amazingly enough, they get the job sometimes it's crazy.

Marcelle : Exactly. So it is not only that, but even just a look at my son and how he and I were talking about the entrepreneurial path at the same time here he was in college and starting a sports videography business. And here I was talking about I wanted to go out on my own as a coach and I'm taking this training class and paying for this business coaching practicum for $5,000 He's watching videos doing this and then doing it he's just got his camera equipment he's getting out there but his business is growing. And meanwhile it took me he was already off and running. And I was still taking the training courses and learning what I could and you know, versus just getting out there and trying. So now you know, I think I've caught up, but just seeing the difference in how he was just willing to watch some YouTube videos, go buy this equipment and go start, just start. Because when you lean into the discomfort, that's where your growth is, too.

Analiza: There's a lot to be inspired by your son and him building the plane while flying it. And Mom, I'm a mom, too. We learned so much from our kids. Just do it. Just do it and get out there and see what happens. Whatever happens we have learned a ton and Roque probably built some traction. So hurray for your son and modeling for us. So with that, Marcelle, are you ready for lightning round questions?

Marcelle : Sure.

Analiza: Okay, chocolate or vanilla,

Marcelle : chocolate all day chocoholic here

Analiza: cooking or takeout?

Marcelle : Takeout all day also. Take out aholic here.

Analiza: Would you rather climb a mountain or jump from a plane?

Marcelle : Jump from a plane? Not a jump, a Holic? But jump from a plane.

Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Marcelle : No comment? Yes, maybe. Oh, tell why whatever, hadn't done a manicure and had a wedding and thought I'd have time to do a manicure that morning and didn't put on stalking with what in the sticks, the 80 year old grandmother, whatever. But it's okay. It was a work person. It was a person I worked with. So my social network didn't see it.

Analiza: How would you rate your karaoke skills on a scale of 1 to 10? 10 being Mariah Carey?

Marcelle : 1, When my son was younger, he said, You know, I was singing in the car and he was in his car seat in the back. No, no, no, no, don't do that. He's maybe like three years old? No, no, no, no. Oh, right.

Analiza: What's a recent book you read?

Marcelle : Oh, I just finished Lead from the Outside by Stacey Abrams. And I think a great book for women of color to just recognize and for anyone, actually to recognize how if you're not in a position of power, you can still influence and make a difference and own your power. So it's right on my bookshelf.

Analiza: What's your favorite way to practice self care?

Marcelle : I'd love to do this kind of combination of things. So one of the things is called cycle breathing. And it's where you breathe in as much as you can, when you breathe in even more, so you get to a point where and then exhale. And it's this notion of slowing down which we're all used to, you know, the counting, or not all but many people are used to the counting with mindfulness and other things. But that particularly and you do it several cycles, as well they call a cycle is that notion of taking in his breath. Now I'm going to take it in a little bit more is this notion of just expanding beyond where you think you've gone. So there's something about that connection as well. And that really helps to bring my awareness and my attention back to you so I can go further. So that practice itself does that for you.

Analiza: I just did that Marcelle with you. So powerful to take the breath and the mind body and spirit connection. That's fantastic. What's a good professional development you've done?

Marcelle : So I am currently pursuing my professional coach certification through the International Coach Federation. So I'm in the middle of professional development. But it's just that reminder that even though I've had over, you know, 750 hours of coaching, and 120 hours of Coach Training, that there's always the opportunity to sharpen your skills, it's the, you know, sharpen the saw, as they say, in the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. And so I am, in order to go for the certification, I want to practice again, I want to get coaching from someone who knows all the markers necessary for that next level. And it's a great reminder, great refresher of we can always do better, and we can always get feedback. And we can always be vulnerable to open ourselves up to that feedback to that criticism, if you will, in order to get to the next level.

Analiza: What's your definition of a Boss Mama?

Marcelle : I'd say a Boss Mama is someone who, rather than thinking about the sense of oh, I need to have at all is able to figure out well, what is it that I need for myself and for my family right now? And how can I focus my time and attention on that? What is it going to take to make that happen? What choices do I need to make? Who do I need to be involved with? Because we're so caught up in having to have feelings? Well, how about what is it that I need right now? And that's where self care comes in. That's where reaching out to others. That's where coaching comes in.

Analiza: Is there any place we can find you?

Marcelle : Yeah, absolutely. So I'm on LinkedIn, Marcelle Fowler. And I think also, as I've just mentioned about being that Boss Mama, if you are ready to figuring out what it is that you need now, to get to that next level, then coaching may be ideal for you because coaching helps you not focus on what works for me. But it really helps you pull out what works best for you, and what choices can you make in a situation to accelerate your ability to accomplish your goals? And so if you're interested in coaching, then they can reach out to us at C suite coach.com

Analiza: Do you have a final ask recommendation or any parting thoughts to share?

Marcelle : Life doesn't have a GPS. So you know, you can set your course. But you know, recognize there's going to be twists and turns along the way. So having someone there to help you figure out what's the next option? What's the course and it's nice to have that travel companion along the way. So reach out to us.

Analiza: Great connection. Marcelle, thanks for your time and all this I really appreciate it.

Marcelle : Absolutely. Thank you for having me. It's been great. You had a lot of fun.

Analiza: Thank you so much for carving out time today to hear today's podcast. Three things before you go. First, if you found it helpful, please leave a five star review. Second, please share with someone else you can share the link and posts on Facebook and say check it out. Lastly, I want to thank you for being a listener and you can go to get a free self care bonus called juicy your joy at analizawolf.com/free Bonus. Thank you so much