Analiza: Welcome to the Women of Color Rise Podcast. I'm Analiza Quiroz Wolf, proud Filipina American, mom of two, and former CEO of a nonprofit and Captain in the US Air Force. I'm on a mission to support having more diverse leaders at the table. We'll be talking with successful CEOs and C suite women leaders of color and learning about their leadership journeys. If you're a woman or woman of color, who wants a seat at the table, you're in the right place. Now let's get into today's show.

I'm delighted to be here today with Sonia Perez. She was the acting CEO and is currently the COO at UnidosUS Their mission is to empower Latinos to achieve their own American dream, where their economic, political and social advancement is a reality. She spent a whopping three decades at Unidos. And she has held so many different roles. She's done research, looking at Latino social policy demographic issues. She launched Kids Count, which is a Puerto Rican project, which published the first data book on children data in Puerto Rico. And she's been on many boards, including currently being a member of the Coca Cola Hispanic Advisory Council. Sonia you went to Brown, then she got a master's of public education from the John F. Kennedy School at Harvard. And she is a fantastic connection through Renata Soto who we featured earlier. So Sonia, welcome, welcome. Thank you so much for being here.

Sonia: Thank you, Analiza, it's really great to be able to chat with you

Analiza: Sonia I'd love to talk about your upbringing, and how you came to being at Unidos? How does your identity shape that career path, especially being here for three decades?

Sonia: It's been a long time. So I grew up in the housing projects in Brooklyn and Williamsburg, Brooklyn, which is a very different neighborhood today. But when I grew up there, it was mostly Puerto Rican, mostly low income, and not the most desirable place for many people, as many people would see it. But I always sort of saw around me some of what I would call today, inequities. Of course, that wasn't a word I knew then. But just how hard my parents work, how much we had to struggle for different opportunities. And so that was always in my mind. But I would say that there was a turning point for me. Actually, once I graduated from college, I learned that a friend who had gone to middle school was killed in a drug situation and mistakenly, and this was it really made me think about how it was that I was 22, had just graduated from Brown and was starting my first job in the private sector. And then I find out that someone who grew up exactly like I did, wound up in that situation. And so it just made me think about what I was doing with my life? And what was I going to do with my life? And I realized that I needed to go back to graduate school and just really think about policy and public policy and education. Because for me, education was the way that got me to where it was. And so you know, is this sort of a thread through my life that I knew that I was getting opportunities that other people equally like me, my family, my friends were not getting? And I didn't know why. And so I wanted to change that.

Analiza: So the pivot then Sonia, from working in a corporate job, going to Harvard Kennedy School, and then focusing on education, what made it policy? Why did you think that was the ingredient? Education is such a big umbrella of a term. What specifically did you think were the levers? Was it a policy? And that's what led you to Unidos?

Sonia: Yeah, this is a good question, because I had never even taken a Political Science course in college. But I started to think about service and public service, which is why the Kennedy School spoke to me, the idea that we're here to serve in different capacities, and that, for me, a policy piece was that it was going to be big that it wasn't just like one program, one neighborhood, but really that we need to be to, to think about policy and where were the opportunities for Latino students who are English learners, for immigrant kids for low income families, like Where were those educational opportunities? And we needed to structure society in such a way that it provided it that was my thinking, right, that we shouldn't be pushing kids into vocational education at that time, which is what I felt like that was happening to the students that didn't go to college prep, high schools, and most of us did not. I was lucky to do that. But those for me if I felt like the high school moment really changed my trajectory. And yet 98% of the students that I went to school with in middle school did not get that kind of opportunity. So that's why I really zeroed in on education. I thought there has to be a path, but it has to be big. It just can't be in one neighborhood, one program.

Analiza: I'm hearing you say, Sonia, that your past informed each step, even at this terrible trauma that happened at 22. I'm sorry about your friend that informed then your focus on let's try to do this for more people through policy, specifically in education. And so I'm curious about this concept of the American dream, because in the mission statement at Unidos. It says it's for Latinos, and their American dream. And so can you talk about what that means? Because there's all this heaviness with the American dream is that true or not? And then you in UnidosUS, the mission mentioned, it's their American dream, can you share more?

Sonia: Yeah, I think obviously, everybody defines it differently. But this idea of, for me, it's about opportunity. It's really about American dream, about opportunities, that opportunity in education is that opportunity to own a home. For my parents, for example, that would have been the American dream for my father to be able to buy a house and have a house that was his version of that, and we didn't quite get there. But you know, that was his version. For me, it was about the opportunity about having the choice, really the choice that say, I want to go to this school, I want to try for this job, I want to have those paths open to me. And I think that's what we all want equally, right? Every community and everybody deserves that you work, you have these paths open to you, there shouldn't be those limitations. And I think that idea of opportunity is what resonates most for me.

Analiza: When you think Sonia to this belief, an opportunity and just other beliefs that you've had, you call it myths, these myths that we thought were true. But then when we actually lived and made these career changes, or sought opportunities, that actually ended up not being true, what comes up for you, Sonia, in terms of myths, and what you realize we're actually false.

Sonia: You know, I think I'd start just with my family and thinking that I grew up, the youngest of eight, my parents came from Puerto Rico. And my father worked in a factory, and my mother was home until I was about six. And then she went to work, which was a huge thing in my family, because women didn't go outside of the house to work at that time. And one thing I think, was that they were really just looking for stability, and security. And so anything that pushed outside of that what for them was scary or not right or so even my, my desire to go away to college created a huge shift for my family, because my parents, particularly my father, didn't think it was appropriate for a girl to go away to college. And so I think some of the myths for me or some of them were limitations, limitations that we should stay within our circle that we shouldn't, you know, even when I went to Harvard, at one point, my mother said something about, you know, you're moving into another social class. And there were all of these class dynamics going on in our household growing up, of course, we were all in, you know, this working class, lower income class. And the idea that I was now at Harvard, and I was being exposed to other people. And I was going to take another kind of job that was going to take me in a different direction, I think was very scary for them. And it was, even though it was like an amazing opportunity. And I know that they were proud.

It also was like, Wait, that's not really for us. And so I feel like I'm constantly challenged in my family. But also, you know, among other Latino families, I see where the kids like, we can't let the kid go away to school, we can't let you have to push and say, why not? That is for us, too. So I think there's a myth about how you know, there's certain things for certain people and certain things for us. And that is something that I've certainly encountered in my life. It's something I've been trying to push up against.

Analiza: Can we get specific, Sonia, because it's so poignant. I'm resonating with that example. myself. I got into Stanford. And I remember in the living room, my parents looking at the tuition and saying to me, You know what a good idea would be, we know you worked hard, but how about community college? I think that would be great. And then you do that for two years, we save more money, and then you find another school. A lot of other people have done that. This school, maybe it's not for you. And so that resonates in terms of your own experience you shared with us that I'm curious for you in those moments, because I was crying as I did that many years ago.

What did it look like to push back? What did you need to do? You look back and you're like, This is not the first time and maybe you will continue to do it today. As you share with other families who have this mindset of that's outside the box. We shouldn't be doing that. We should be with our own people. What advice would you give someone who said You know, I love My family, I respect my family, I want something different. And yet, this is so challenging to push back on people I love. Could you share from your own example, you know how you've gone about doing it so that we can learn as well about how to apply it in our lives?

Sonia: Well, I think at least for me, you know, my family's super important. And I always felt like I could have both I never thought about, I'm going away to school, and now I'm starting a different life away from them. I just thought, I'm going away to school, and then I'm going to come back. And so I think I have to deal with a lot, particularly with my father, his resistance to this. And honestly, the summer before I went away to school, he didn't speak to me for the entire summer. So the entire summer, I would go home from work, and he would be there and he would not speak to me, and we just kind of coexisted. But the Labor Day weekend before I was leaving for Brown, he came in and as I was packing, and my mother was helping me and said, basically, you're always going to have this, remember that this is always your house.

And you know if the theme, but it took us to a symbol of whether we need Baraka. And so I felt like my father, who was not at all expressive, was huge for him to do that. But for me, I didn't think that I was doing anything wrong. And so I felt like I am going to balance as much as I can with wanting to do what I want to do, but also staying connected to my family. And I think that, you know, I didn't come back after college to New York the right way. In fact, I left for 20 years, and then came back to New York, but I came back to care for my mom, in part to be with my parents.

And then once my father passed away my mom came and moved in with us. And so for me, that was always clear that it was like I wanted these things for myself, but my family is my anchor. And it is my priority. And it's my value, the value to care for my parents and to care for my family. As I was also, you know, getting successful and doing other things for my film.

Analiza: I'm hearing from you, Sonia, that we can have both, we can pursue opportunity, open new doors, new, do new things, and also show respect and love to people that are dear to us. And that looks like staying grounded in this vision for our future, while knowing that we'll always hold them close. And maybe it's not going to be close for a few years. But we'll eventually get there. And in your case, like mom lives with you. So that's a testament to that's always been in your heart. I love that so much.

So yeah, I want to talk about your 30 year career at Unidos. Because that is long. And I have to tell you, as someone who also got my MBA, we're doing a real round of updates from friends. And everybody, you know, gave updates like I've had two jobs, three jobs. So I mean, so many different pivots. And I think among us there was one who had stayed. So it's so rare to have it for 30 years, my parents said in the military with my dad, and then my mom over 30 years as a nurse, and I'm curious for you, as you think about your career and it's never to regret it but always to share. How did you decide? Did you have a plan? I'd stay here for many years. I'm sure other people asked you to come work with them. How did you decide, you know, I'm going to stay? This is my path. I'm going to be here, and then it ends up being 30 years. That loyalty,

Sonia: It has been a very long time. And no I definitely did not come in thinking I was gonna stay this long. I have held up probably about 10 different jobs in that time. So part of it is that it's the organization, though who needs us is constantly evolving. It's grown. It's complex. I'm learning all the time. It's fun, it continues to drive my passion. And so I feel very lucky to be here and in this role. But also along the way, there were some challenges, right I probably three or four years into working.

I worked in Washington DC on the policy side of Unidos, then National Council of La Raza and I did get an offer to work in the federal government at the time with a former professor from the Kennedy School working on social policy, and it was really, really close to taking it. And then I stopped to think about why that would be. I remember very clearly it was kind of agonizing. But I stopped to think about why that being viewed as such a tremendous opportunity to go work there and not staying in Unidos which at the time was like 40 people in a small right National Council that ESA and I thought our organizations and the nonprofit sector should be equally seen as something valuable. Like why is this not being seen as prestigious, and I think I can do what I want to do, I want to do it in this sphere and not over there. And so I turned it down. But he was not very happy. The person who offered me the job because I was very close to it.

But it was a pivotal moment for me to say, How am I choosing this path? Why am I choosing this path, like I have to be really intentional. And then the other was, I then left, maybe four years, three or four years after that, too, I left we need those for a short time, maybe two years to move to Puerto Rico, to take care of my mother in law who was sick, and we just quit our jobs moved from Washington to Puerto Rico and to take care of her. And so I worked in a different housing organization there at the time. But when I realized that was more kind of direct service, and working with resident councils and housing projects in Puerto Rico was extremely probably the hardest job I've ever had. I realized, too, that my strengths were in kind of more behind the scenes, national level research, right, sort of a different kind of view of work, then doing direct service, that was not where my strengths lie, and lay. And so I then made the choice to, you know, return to those I contacted and say, Can I come back to my role, but from Puerto Rico, so I was doing remote work before it was the thing. I did have to push, push push to challenge them to let me try to do it that way. And it did work.

And honestly, for the, you know, 15 years after that I was remote. I was never back in Washington. And now I'm in New York. So everybody's remote now. Right? So that was, you know, I'm going to take a chance, I'm going to push and ask and say, let's try this, let's see how it works. But also recognizing that I wanted to do that work again, because that's where I felt like my skills were really best suited.

And then I guess the other thing for me that has defined my time at Unidos, and I talk about this a lot with staff is being open to opportunities that come before you I think we come in, you know, certainly those of us who study policy, whatever you study, right, you come in thinking this is what I want to do. And I never thought I was going to. I don't even know what a COO was, I was not interested in this administration, I wanted to do policy, I wanted to do education policy, the opportunity came up for me to do program work to work with our affiliate network of community organizations. I didn't necessarily want to do that. But I felt like I was being recognized for my skills being recognized to be applied in a different place in the organization.

And my previous boss said to us or previous president when either said one time, we have to think about where the community needs us. Where does the community need your skills? And how can you best serve? And that has stayed with me, because it's not always where we want to be. It may be that it's in another place, but we're really doing the work that's going to have the biggest impact in that other place that guides me that kind of philosophy about where do you serve? And where do you best serve, is really what has led me to take different roles, not always the ones I wanted. But then I see that I've been able to thrive and grow and really learn a lot. And that's sort of what has kept me here for so long.

Sonia: There's a myth, I think, Sonia, when I listen to you that our careers are one track. Here we go, we're going to be able to go direct into the dream job when in reality, life happens. And when we're intentional about pausing and making sure that our choices aligned with our values, it helps to both be grounded, but also be open. There's a balance, knowing what you know, but also being open to what you don't know. And what's fantastic about your career is that within one organization, and you obviously did a great job that people were looking out for you and offering you new opportunities that there was room to continue to grow and that you didn't get stuck anywhere. And that your openness to taking on positions that weren't necessarily part of the plan has actually I think led you to being in a role where it does require a very broad view of an organization to see the research, the direct service, the partnerships, the finance, all of those things, your specific examples, through your career actually positioned you for this role. And had you been really focused on just policy and research? I'm not sure you'd be the real the strong leader you are today. So I want to name that.

And that actually brings me to Sonia, just talking about you being the interim CEO for months. And I'm curious about that experience. what did you learn you're going from because he said I'm a behind the scenes person. I know what I'm good at. And I haven't heard you say like I like being out in front. I like being the face that hasn't yet come up. So talk about what that was like for you. And particularly what was surprising.

Sonia: First of all, I felt like if anybody was prepared, I did recognize I was extremely prepared. And so I had to recognize that in myself. right, I had to say, don't doubt yourself. Like, if anybody's prepared, you know, this organization inside out, it's you, right? Nevertheless, it's very different to do the behind the scenes internal work and the other, right. And when I was in the policy side, for five years, I did do a lot of the external in terms of interviews, and you know, getting our policy workout their research out there, but have been a very long time. So, also, we're very different organization, and the expectations are different. So I will say that, you know, both having the extreme support of Janet and her and the prep that we did, right, just months and months of preparation with her and other colleagues, to get to her taking a sabbatical. And me stepping into the role. Our board chair and our board in general, are also extremely supportive every step of the way. So I felt like I wasn't alone, you know, I felt like there's community here with me. And I also felt a tremendous responsibility to do the best that I could do. Like, this is important, this is important work, we are the voice of for them at the no community. And I just have to step in there. So I felt surprisingly calm about it.

To be honest, I thought I'm a little more stressed out than I was, but I also felt like, Yeah, I had stuff out there doing a press conference, or doing speaking at an event, or those kinds of things that are not my top choice of things to do. But I knew that I could do them. And so part of it was just like, Okay, I'm as prepared as I can be, I have to just jump in and go there. I think the you know, some of what I learned, this is a really complicated job is really, really hard. And there was also some, you know, other challenges to the organization internally, people, you know, doing searches for different positions, etc. So, I never felt like I was 100% in the external role in exactly the same way that, for example, Janet is currently I was trying to keep an eye internally and keep an eye externally. And I think that sort of reinforced to me the need for two different roles for this type of an organization because it is so complicated.

Analiza: I am listening to these themes of how you step into this role, there is no one more prepared than you to step into this role. So there's this confidence that I'm as ready as I can be. So I hear that. And then I also hear that there was this preparation and support and community, not just before, but during that you could lean on. And I'm hearing that there was the sense of responsibility to do this external work, which may be not your favorite. But to do it really well. And to come back to also your strength of looking at what's behind the scenes in the organization. So both balancing things that maybe you're not bringing as much energy to those things that you naturally lean on. So I'm curious, Sonia, because it's such an external role. Would you ever think about if she said, probably, this is what happened. But Janet said to you, actually, I want to go on a year long sabbatical or two? Or maybe I'm going to transition to this other impactful, you know, Latino commission, and would you just run it? I'm curious about just taking on that role, either in indosuez, or just in generally an organization like, how would you feel about? Yeah, I am a CEO. That sounds fun.

Sonia: You know, I guess I will never say what is it? You never say no, that you're not going to do something. But, you know, I don't think it's my certainly not my goal at the moment. And I do think that, you know, I think that there's a face as I think more I'm getting older, I've had this 30 year career, what I think is really important is helping to bring along the next generation of leadership. I really do. I like and I also value, I don't think I had a lot of mentorship, honestly.

So I'm very, you know, mindful that when I recognize talent, and young people and younger people, that I want to support their growth. And I do feel like, also, we are a young community, that we continue to lift other people up. And so I feel like, that's where my next kind of steps are not necessarily stepping into the lead role, wherever maybe I will, at some point, I don't, I don't know. But really, where I want to put my energy is helping to develop that next level of leadership. And because I do think it's really important to ground new leaders and younger leaders for particularly for only those us and the Latino community, in the values of our organization, right in the values of we have this amazing 50 plus year history as a civil rights Latino civil rights organization. All that was done in the decades before I got to meet those us and the sacrifices that people made to create this organization that is super well respected now, but you know, being that voice like when I think about is it hard for me to step into a press conference or step into a speaking role that I may not necessarily, you know, again, not my favorite thing to do?

I think about my parents And the harder things they had to do, or I think about the previous leaders of only those of us who had to step into these rooms and really push to get the voice of the Latino community out there. So I feel like I can be that bridge of what I heard from them, what I learned from them to the next generation of leaders that are coming now. And have, you know, folks today understand, we've got to root ourselves in our history, not just our own personal history, but our organizational history, our community history, particularly in this country and get strength from that, to be able to push forward on whatever the next, you know, challenges aren't coming our way.

Analiza: There's a routing of what's happened and the acknowledgement and respect and gratitude for people who have come before us and all that sacrifice, including your parents and organizations and the movement, civil rights leaders. And there's also for you to play that role and allow space and opportunity grooming development for the next generation. And I'm also hearing from you to Sonia, that it doesn't have to be you, that becomes a next leader, that you're going to open space for other people to take that home,

Sonia: I would have just two other things. In terms of career and development and leadership, I feel like it's important to say, you know, follow wherever the opportunities are, but also that the bumps along the way, and for me, there were these bumps of you know, having to move to Puerto Rico take care of my family do those things, which I believe we need those us allow me to do both. Another reason why I have stayed so long, but also that there were some moments where I did not get recognized, I did not get the promotion that I thought I should get, you know, those were really, really hard moments for me, and I had to make a choice. Am I going to stay here? Even though I don't think that was right, or I felt like this could have been done differently. I did choose to stay. So I think sometimes you have to, you know, in whatever career you're in, reflect on? Is this the place where you can do the best work? Or is this really aligned with your values and your passion? And for me? The answer was yes. And that's why I stayed and I got through those kinds of hard moments. The other is the idea about leadership and style. And I feel like we often really value or look for people that are, you know, charismatic and out there and aggressive. But there are different styles of leadership. And for me, that is something also that I've learned that the values that I bring, have, you know, of what I value in terms of humility in terms of not always being in the spotlight of you know, other things like that doesn't mean you're not a leader, it just means you're a different leader. And this kind of quiet leadership of like, this is how I'm going to move something along can be as effective. And it just depends on the moment or depends on the organization. But I think it's important for young women in particular, I think to understand and recognize that there are different kinds of leadership and we don't we can just be true to who we are and what's comfortable for us, as we move forward in our careers.

Analiza: I want to stay with that point in terms of leadership styles, that there are many different ways to lead there are effective, even more effective than the typical charismatic, whatever the other sort of more white male dominant picture style of a leader. Can you talk to us about any specific moments, Sonia, when you may be questioned? Should I lead a certain way that is less my style? And then you ended up leading, leaning more into who you are authentically, even though it wasn't sort of typical? Do you have any moments that come up for you that bring this to life?

Sonia: You know, I think, I guess I would say just even in this recent interim CEO, period, right, that I had to do a press conference or a press event with Representative Castro. And it was like the first week of the sabbatical of my role here. And I thought, Okay, well, I'm not in Washington, DC anymore. People don't really know who I am, because I've been behind the scenes. And I realized that I had to, you know, we were talking about the lack of representation of Latinos in the media. But this is work that you need those you have started like 30 years ago, and I was there at our press conference 30 years ago when we did that first report. And I had to think about drawing on that. So like pushing into this space, where I sort of sense that the expectations were not clear about how I was going to do in this event, and also because I hadn't done something like this in a really long time.

And I actually like channels, my father's in the nation about how we are not seen, you know, he used to talk about that. How come there's not enough Latinos in the TV shows and things like that, right. And I went in there with that, but also with that history that, hey, I was at that first press conference 30 years ago talking, and those were the kinds of remarks that I made and so it was you know, I heard from many that my remarks were really forceful were really effective that I did a good job. But it was, you know, in the moment, I really did have to think about how am I going to come off in this thing because my style is not to just like, get out there. And I just thought in my own head about, okay, these are kinds of things I want to say, I'm just gonna say them. And yeah, and that was important for me to start, like, Okay, this is my style. This is how I'm going to say it and how it's received is another thing, but I can't control that.

Analiza: What a beautiful example, especially when you draw upon your father and your drug times 30 years ago, when you were at this press conference, and to stand in your truth and to deliver in a way that felt like it was you versus some other persona. Thank you so much for sharing that.

Sonia: Thank you.

Analiza: All right, with that ready for lightning round?

Sonia: Sure.

Analiza: Okay, chocolate or vanilla?

Sonia: Chocolate.

Analiza: Cooking, or take out?

Sonia: Cooking.

Analiza: Climb a mountain or jump from a plane?

Sonia: Climb a mountain for sure.

Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Sonia: Yes.

Analiza: How would you rate your karaoke skills on a scale of one to 10? 10 being Mariah Carey?

Sonia: Probably three but the enthusiasm of a nine.

Analiza: What's a recent book you read?

Sonia: Under the White Gaze.

Analiza: What's your favorite way to practice self care?

Sonia: Being actually cooking, baking, being by myself.

Analiza: What's a good professional development you've done?

Sonia: The Rockwood leadership leading from the inside out.

Analiza: What's your definition of a Boss Mama?

Sonia: I think leading with values and just being grounded in who you are.

Analiza: What advice would you give your younger self?

Sonia: To not be so intimidated all the time. You just step into the spaces. Yeah.

Analiza: And then where can we find you like LinkedIn or anywhere else?

Sonia: UnidosUS And on LinkedIn. Yes, I'm on LinkedIn.

Analiza: And last question, do you have a final ask recommendation or any parting thoughts to share?

Sonia: I do really appreciate this opportunity. I think it is really important to hear our voices and to tell our stories. I also wish I had this many years ago and that our stories are valid, right? Our experiences are valid, and we don't always hear them or we're afraid to share them. Even though I realized some of the things I said to you resonated with you and I don't know that I've shared all these things before. So thank you for this opportunity.

Analiza: Thank you so much.

Thank you so much for carving out time today to hear today's podcast. Three things before you go. First, if you found it helpful, please leave a five star review. Second, please share with someone else you can share the link and posts on Facebook and say check it out. Lastly, I want to thank you for being a listener and you can go to get a free self care bonus called juice your joy at analizawolf.com/freebonus. Thank you so much.

Analiza: