Analiza: Welcome to the Women of Color Rise Podcast. I'm Analiza Quiroz Wolf, proud Filipina American mom of two, and former CEO of a nonprofit and Captain in the US Air Force. I'm on a mission to support having more diverse leaders at the table. We'll be talking with successful CEOs and C suite women leaders of color and learning about their leadership journeys. If you're a woman or woman of color who wants a seat at the table, you're in the right place. Now let's get into today's show.

I'm thrilled to be talking with Betty Ng. Today, she is the CEO of Inspiring Diversity. And she's actually one of Crain's New York businesses, notable Asian leaders and Inspiring Diversity is all about how to foster a culture of diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging. Betty has written several books, including Po-Ling Power, which is about propelling yourself and others to be successful. She wrote with her mother Po-Ling Power, and she's also a writer with her children. And they've produced best selling books, including Persevering Penguins and Pals. She has appeared in tons of different media, including Forbes, and has an MBA from Harvard, also, honors BA from Stanford. And a fun fact about Betty is that she is a certified pickleball coach. So tons of dimension with Betty. Thank you so much for being here.

Betty: Thank you so much, Analiza. I'm so excited for our conversation today.

Analiza: Betty, let's start with your upbringing. And this path. How did you have the vision that you'd be an entrepreneur, that you'd have a DEIB program, that you would even be a pickleball coach one day?

Betty: And literally, if you'd asked me seven years ago, even I would have been like, Excuse me, it was just not something that I had on my radar screen as I was growing up. So in terms of my background, I was born and raised in New York City, actually in Chinatown. And you know, frankly, I had very little exposure growing up to people outside of the Chinese community. And, you know, but as I grew older, and really got more exposure to people of different backgrounds, and realize that truly anybody can be your ally, and then also, quite frankly, had my share of challenges as well as successes, that ultimately did fuel my purpose, which is to be that builder of inclusive culture. And that's really what led me ultimately to founding Inspiring Diversity. There's a much longer story behind that. And I'm happy to go into any level of detail that you want to, but I'll leave the questioning to you.

Analiza: Betty, before starting Inspiring Diversity, you had this pretty great career, I mean, Harvard, Stanford, and going to AmEx and then different consulting. I mean, it's a great resume with all of the brands. I mean, you have all the brands, if I were a Chinese mom, I would say wow, Betty, you've done well, I really checked all those boxes. And yet you struck out to be an entrepreneur, can you share with us? What was that moment that said, You know, I'm going to leave this corporate culture, and I'm going to start this company. And it's a risk. Right. So can you talk about that process? Was there a moment that brought you to take this courageous step?

Betty: Yeah, you know what, I have to say, it was really a journey. When people look at my resume, they, they're like, Wow, that's so impressive. And you have to say that it was really a great journey and at the macro level, in terms of ascending up the ranks, but I frankly, have my share of challenges as well as successes. And that's why I oftentimes consider my journey actually one of going from pain, to purpose, and ultimately promise.

So pain in terms of, you know, from a personal standpoint, I've been the victim of hate crimes. You know, my sister and I were beaten up simply for being Chinese when we were younger. I've been followed and chased simply for being an Asian woman in corporate, you know, even though it was, you know, at the macro level, a successful experience and career, I have my share of challenges, everything from microaggressions of being expected to serve t even when I was a senior executive to an experience where I had a manager who continually downplayed my and another woman of colors, accomplishments. And so you know, those painful experiences, really, ultimately, you feel my purpose, to be that builder of inclusive culture and I leveraged that purpose even when I was in corporate.

And I became the co-chair of the women's employee resource group in my last corporate role, as well as the founder of an Asian Leadership Initiative, because I felt that there are just so many things that need to be done to really move the needle with respect to diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging. So even though my day job was in M&A, and actually that's how I met your husband, at Citi, you know, my night job was really to help to drive diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging. And in 2015, I was awarded as a corporate trailblazer for the impact that I was having in diversity inclusion, as well as my overall career success rising up the ranks. And at that time, when I was awarded, I was asked to write an acceptance speech. And I had to think long and hard about who I am and how he got to where I am. And then all roads lead back to my mom. And ultimately, I realized that I needed to write this book with my mom Po-Ling Power.

And so it was like a combination of things like knowing that I wanted to write a book with my mom about how do you propel your authentic self and others to success. And then also this knowing that there are solutions out there that really needed to be developed to truly move the needle with respect to diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging. And so it was that combination of things that really made me think, well, you know, this is the time for me to do it.

And also, in my last corporate role, the position in my group was eliminated, there was an opportunity and another group, but I really thought, you know, what, if not, now, then when. And so, I made that leap into the entrepreneurial world, because for one thing I had, after two decades, over two decades in corporate had saved some money. And so I felt that I had, you know, a good financial base that I could always fall back on.

But, frankly, a lot of it, too, was this purpose that I felt I needed to really pursue. And also, what really made me fearless with respect to becoming an entrepreneur was the network that I have, and the relationships that I have, that no matter what happened, that I would always have that support system, and knew that I could always, at some point, go back to corporate if I wanted to. So I think that the combination of all of those things, just made me feel that it was the right move. For me, that was aligned with my purpose, what I really wanted to do, and I didn't want to live a life with regret, I had the financial stability, as well as a support network. So that you know what, worst case scenario I learned. And I grew as a person.

Analiza: Purpose, financial stability, and community having that base, and also this kismet, the opportunity to write a speech and realizing this is the work that I want to do. And it's deeply personal with my mother. It sounds so romantic, right? Like, wow, you went through pain, and it guided you to, although I don't want pain on anybody. But it allowed you to say, you know, this is the thing.

Betty: Yeah. And see, that's the thing, right? Many of us do experience pain. And sometimes, and especially when it's related to your identity, you start to question your own identity. And so you know, it's better to be someone else have some other background or whatever. But the way that I see it is that you should not let pain weigh you down. It should be your fuel. And actually, it should create the superpower of help you realize recognize the superpower of your identity,

Analiza: That resonates so much. Because the work that I've done in my life that's meant so much to me has been based on pain I felt as a child going to schools that weren't great, which led me to 15 years in education, building schools for low income kids of color. And even now the work that I do, having been a CEO woman of color at the top role, and realizing there's more support. So I really appreciate it because pain is pain. It's real. We don't wish it on anyone.

And yet it can be fuel, if we choose to see it as fuel, because we hope to prevent this from happening to others, to our children. And that kind of appeal is what pushes us even with all that foundation, finances, community, all of the brands and experience it is the thing that gets us to Yes, I will pursue it because this is my purpose. And I know what it feels like having experienced such terrible pain. So I love that so much.

So Betty, I want to go into your diversity work because as an Asian American leading the work and being successful at it. And I imagine leveraging your contacts with your community of people that would really appreciate this work and want you to speak. I want to talk about impact, because you're a person with impact. And it's not just about books and successful speeches and doing engagement, it's also about impact. And so let's go there. Because the work is about impact and helping the next event, even the next generation, it's like helping people now experience less pain, and even better, can we uplift, right? Like, not less pain, but can we uplift? And can we make it more credible?

And so I'm gonna give you the big question, which is, how do you feel having experienced the system? I'll call the system and now doing the work to transform, make the system better? What is your general take on whether things are better? What are you seeing that gives us hope? Or if we want to be real, we're not yet seeing a lot of movement. So just assessment, how is it going? It could be good or bad, but the floor is yours?

Betty: Yeah. It's interesting, right? With respect to DEIB its movement. But sometimes it's hard. Sometimes it's bad. Sometimes it's sideways. You know, and interestingly, and it really depends on also the population that you're speaking of, like, when it comes to diversity, is there progress or not? Right? And, you know, it's interesting, like, so for example, for women, right, prior to the pandemic, women had, you know, more, you know, payroll positions than men did for the very first time in history. But then once the pandemic hit 80%, of those who left the workforce were women. So there have been progress before the pandemic, but then we have major setbacks as a result of the pandemic. And then also, you know, for example, with the LGBTQIA population, you've seen some progress, you know, in terms of, for example, more representation in the C suite and board levels, but then you also see, you know, all these laws coming into play, right and being implemented. And you're like, wow, that's, those are step backwards. And so, you know, it really depends on the population. But there is movement.

But I would say one thing is that there is definitely and there was a recent Harvard Business Review article back in March, that showed that there was clearly a big significant disconnect between what HR leaders perceptions of progress work versus what employees believe the progress was. And a lot of that disconnect, also was focused on areas of not just overall diversity, but also inclusion, specifically, as well as what employers were doing in terms of focusing on the well being of their employees. Right. So there's this disconnect, like, you know, organizations may think that they're making a lot of progress, but it's not really being built by the employees. And so you know, and especially when it comes to inclusion and well being, that's why Inspiring Diversity is just so focused on well being, and also on embedding conscious inclusion into cultural DNA. When we talk about diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging, and quite frankly, it can be overwhelming to think about, right? Because there's so much that is encompassed within diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging, but when you take a step back, you think about culture, what is culture, culture is the sum of the individual. And so therefore, how we as individuals behave, ultimately drives everything else, right. So how inclusive we behave, ultimately drives how an organization looks with respect to diversity and representation, how it acts with respect to promoting diversity, inclusion, and ultimately how the organization feels with respect to equity, and belonging.

So if we can get the individual behavior, right, everything else putting policies in place, and infrastructure, etc. That becomes so much easier if we can get people to think act and interact inclusively. So, a lot of organizations, I don't think that they focus enough individual behavior. But if you don't address individual inclusive behavior, everything else with respect to d IB, is that much harder to achieve? And so I think organizations really need to focus more on that and recognize it's not just about these one offs, one off workshops, you know, in check the box a lot of organizations say Oh, well, what do I have to do Oh, unconscious bias or so I can check the box. But, you know, that's not going to drive real change. Research shows that when it comes to real change and lasting behavioral change, only 20% of it comes from insight that one off workshops can offer 80% of it comes from, how do we live and breed these behaviors in the day to day the reinforcement learning that has to occur. And so that's what really needs to be focused on. And a lot of organizations frankly, aren't doing it.

Analiza: Betty, I'm so thrilled to be talking with you, as someone who worked on the technical changes, because I thought, let's put a strategic plan together, a diversity inclusion DEIB statement, let's you know, make sure that all of our stakeholders, and each of those policies that go along with these groups are equitable and give, you know, decided on by committees versus top level. And honestly, I did not think about outside of the training, what does it mean, on an individual level? I was just more structures, policy, and then even performance, like how do we motivate this type of behavior? How do we intervene in a group for it? So I love talking with you. Because I feel like this is not the standard approach, having gone to many conferences, having had many conversations, it is a really good idea, important idea to talk about the individual level, because it is true that culture is a sum of individuals. And if we don't think about that individual behavior, day to day behavior, what does that actually mean for the help of the organization?

Betty: Yeah, for the health of the organization, and also when you're thinking about the policies and everything, right? If you do not have an inclusive mindset, the people who are developing those policies and systems and so forth, if they don't have an inclusive mindset, and aren't also inclusive in developing policies and system, then you're basically starting from ground zero, like, you're not really going to get the best

Analiza: Agreed. So let's talk about it. Because I want to bring along there many people on parts of their journey could be beginning or could be more advanced. So however we define those terms, and I'm curious, because you might have people who are more, one willing, and two have skills, right? And I'm curious, when you think about bringing people along in the work, given that they have their own different parts of their journey, and maybe even not motivated? I'm curious how, you know, like, at the individual level, it sounds great. And yet, how does one move individuals, given the diversity of where they all are?

Betty: Yeah. So you know, as you said, everyone is at a different point in their journey, which is one of the reasons why, you know, for example, it's so important to establish that baseline. And as part of inspiring diversities work, we have what we call our TAIQ ssessment. So TAIQ stands for the Think Act, Interact Quotient for inclusive behavior. And so yeah, also, I should say that many of us think that we're inclusive, but how many of us really, really understand what it means to be inclusive? Right. And so based on extensive research and experience, we have boiled inclusive behavior down into eight key behaviors. And we've developed an assessment that measures how people think, versus act versus interact, those inclusive behaviors. And as you can imagine, how you think, doesn't necessarily manifest itself and how we act and interact, right. And so I think it's really important for people to assess their own inclusive behaviors, and see where they are in terms of areas of development, areas of strength, and each person is very different, right? You can't just say, Oh, I'm inclusive, you have to break it down by specific behaviors, right. And so I think that once people then so we have an online assessment, do it within 30 minutes. And within seconds, you get your personalized individualized heat map, you have a red and yellow, green, and you can click on any box within, you know, the heat map. And it'll come up with recommendations for us specifically based on how you answered the assessment in terms of things that you can, should consider doing as well as things that you should continue to do. So everybody could be at a different point in their journey, but it's really about honing in on specific behaviors.

You mentioned that some people may not even be motivated, right? And so this is why it is so important to pull people into the conversation rather than push people in. Frankly, a lot of people are burnt out generally are burnt out specifically with respect to DEIB, or like rolling their eyes. Oh, not another DEIB thing. Oh, unconscious bias. We tried to leave her out of me or something. And that's why you have to not focus on bad behavior. Unconscious bias. You have to go beyond unconscious bias and focus on what we call conscious inclusion. When you flip it that way you say, let's promote positive behavior, let's coach and develop on positive behavior, how can we all be more inclusive of each other, that takes on a very different tone than, okay? Let's do unconscious bias training, like we're all bad people are, quite frankly, all of us have biases. You know, even I have biases, like even as di be professional, you know, because we are all the products of our access, exposure, upbringing, education, right.

And so, you know, when it comes to motivating people, that's why it's important to do it in a way that is engaging. And so yeah, that's why Inspiring Diversity leverages a lot of gamification in the work that we do, right, we make it fun, but yet make it very active learning, as opposed to just lecturing people, because then it goes in one ear and out the other. Right. And so it's really about so for example, we leverage goods, we have a whole library of, you know, cultural competence, and cultural humility, Kahoot, and other types of foods that really allow us to dive deep into what typically can be very, very difficult and sobering conversations, but we make it engaging, fun, to yet very educational, and real. And we can combine storytelling with those foods to really make it relatable.

And then also, I had mentioned, you know, actually on in a private conversation with you that I integrate pickleball into the work that we do, because when people hear pickleball, they don't think diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging, they just think fun. But actually, there are so many lessons from pickleball that can help us play, work and live well together. And that includes lessons specific to diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging. And so by bringing people in playing pickleball, you can embed mindfulness with respect to teamwork, collaboration, diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging in ways that pull people into the conversation and help them be more mindful in a very relatable way without cramming it down their throats and have creating that those walls and the resistance,

Analiza: It is so rare to hear someone describe DEIB work and say, Yeah, that's really fun. Let's make it engaging, or gamified. So I love that you're integrating what feels, and I love that you called it out heavy and tired, like not another one of these trainings into let's actually integrate and have it be playful. Because when I think about pickleball, I'm like, Ooh, that sounds like a fun sport. I think it seems accessible to many people of different ages and backgrounds. And when I think about team building, so much of it is not just in your head, right? It's about how do we get into our hearts into our bodies and connect with each other because we're playing together? It's such a fun concept. And let's talk about it.

Because as a pickleball, I know you play four times a week. I'm curious Betty, is this an exercise that you would do. I also really liked the individual level, imagine there's an app and people can get their lessons customized. But let's talk about pickleball. Like when on the court, when you're thinking about how to integrate with your team, I know you're doing training with your team, like what would an exercise look like? Because now you're going from, you know, this app as an individual to actually interacting with others. So could you bring us through? How do you integrate with real people in front of you playing?

Betty: So what we oftentimes do is really get people together. Like it could be any group, and have people actually share a bit about their background and, you know, related to pickleball, or, you know, any other sports, just so that, you know, people can get a better sense in terms of where everyone's coming from with respect to the game of pickleball. But then, you know, there are a lot of parallels, right, as we go through these exercises to teamwork, like, oh, like when you're working in a team together. Like, it's important to understand the backgrounds of your team members, right, and how they may relate to the work specifically, right, that you're going to be doing, right, you know, in terms of and I don't want to give too much away, because this is really about, you know, lessons and actually leading the offside for themselves, but it's really about having people play with each other and switching up their partners, right, because one of the great things about pickleball as you pointed out is that it is truly an inclusive sport, people of all backgrounds, ages sizes, abilities can play pickleball and Pickleball is typically played as a double sport.

And so you know, it's really about teamwork. It's always about teamwork, right, as opposed to an individual level sport. And one of the great things about pickleball is an especially open play, we oftentimes ask who haven't I played. And so in these sessions that I lead, it is really about having people play with different partners, and then also be reflective of their experiences, lessons learned. And then tying those lessons into broader lessons that apply not only on the court, but also off the court. And so just really integrating all those teamwork aspects.

But because people are playing with different partners throughout the session, it's really about team dynamics with different people, you know, each other's strengths, weaknesses, taking into consideration of that color, how to best collaborate, together, communicate with each other, and then go from there. Right, and going through, and playing pickleball. And having people rotate through, really helps to embed that mindfulness with respect to especially diversity, inclusion, and teamwork and collaboration.

Analiza: So fun. I mean, honestly, that sounds really fun. But there's so much learning and also building and camaraderie and light, I mean, people who are maybe brilliant at a certain content area at work, sometimes don't, that doesn't translate to the pickleball court. And absolutely, yes. And also, I love that there's a humanity to it. Because often, there's a face that you present at work, and it's not the whole self. And so on a court, you're more I mean, it's just more human, I think, to Yeah, like, here's actually what I'm not gonna you can't hide right behind your skill, like it is like you're just playing together by so much lightness in a heavy topic. So how fun Betty, that sounds really incredible. And I love that approach.

Betty: Yeah, it's wonderful. And yeah, I mentioned that just before this podcast, and in fact, led a pickleball coaching session with a bunch of business leaders, and actually brought people of different backgrounds together, who had never actually met each other. And but they all collaborated played together. And it was such an impactful session when we talk about impact. It's not just about the numbers, it's about the experience.

How do you make people feel? What are those takeaways that you might not be able to necessarily, you know, track at a specific moment, you know, with specific data, but the storytelling and the impact the feelings that you leave people with? You know, I guess, theoretically, you could do a survey, and then you can show that impact. But it's really about, you know, creating, as you said, that camaraderie, that community weight, and that vetting that mindfulness. And it was just really a wonderful session. And it just further reinforced to me the importance and the power of pickleball.

Analiza: Mm hmm. The power of pickleball. I had no idea Betty, that was where we were going to be really striking a chord, and it sounds fun. And I mean, I'm like, if I had a team, I would lead my team through it. That sounds amazing. So tell me this before we move to lightning round Betty, which is given this different way of approaching DEIB, and putting play and having people build relationships and allow us to, you know, feel it, and then hopefully bring it to our company culture? How are you feeling about and people are tired, right? That's real to, like, how do you feel about this is so weighty, but the future of DEIB, like, do you even with these revolutionary approaches, and I know that you're expanding? How do you feel like we're gonna move forward with it? What's your sense?

Betty: Yeah, you know, it's an interesting question, because we talk about the revolutionary approaches that Inspiring Diversity taking, but you know, what is most of the world doing? If they continue on this path of the same old same old, then we're not going to get very far. But I think that, you know, the more that organizations, first of all recognize this disconnect between their perception versus actual perception by employees, right? That disconnect has to be removed, and a lot of that has to come from really talking to employees and engaging employees right, in order for you to tackle that problem. But if organizations don't engage, because honestly, we know, there's resistance, there's burnout out there. If a more engaging and relatable approach is not taken. We're not going to go very far. And so relatability is so key to all this. And storytelling is so key.

We can show all the data that we want and data is important, don't get me wrong data is important. And showing the story that the data support, you know, and exemplifies. It's very important. But at the end of the day, it's about storytelling and showing the impact on real people. Right. And I think that those also honest conversations need to happen. And, you know, it's not just talking about the business case, because you can, everybody knows that there is a strong business case for diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging, right. We know that diversity drives innovation, diversity and inclusion drive innovation, but why haven't we really seen a lot of progress, right? It's because we really need to dive below the surface. It's going beyond the data, and making it all relatable.

Analiza: So cool. I want to pick up a racquet ready and play with you. So thank you so much for inspiring myself having been really passionate about this work, but also just feeling like Okay, now what does this mean? I really appreciate it. It's really honest, and also hopeful that if we make it more personal, relatable storytelling, playful, like this is the work can we connect us humans, humans at work, humans on the court? We're all humans anyway. So can we be playful? So thank you. Thank you, Betty. Are you ready for lightning round questions?

Betty: Sure.

Analiza: Okay, chocolate or vanilla,

Betty: Chocolate

Analiza: Cooking or takeout.

Betty: Takeout

Analiza: Climb a mountain or jump from a plane?

Betty: Definitely climb a mountain.

Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Betty: Yes, I have.

Analiza: How would you rate your karaoke skills on a scale of one to 10-10 being Mariah Carey?

Betty: Probably an eight.

Analiza: What's a recent book you read?

Betty Ng 31:51 I have read from CIA to CEO from Rupal Patel

Analiza: What's a favorite practice for self care?

Betty: So as we mentioned, pickleball, but it's really actually pickleball combined with yoga. As in like, Well, I first you know, it's good to do yoga first. Stretch yourself that actually help yourself be present, and then play pickleball

Analiza: Got it. I was like, are you doing pickleball and yoga at the same time?

Betty: No, no, sorry. Sorry.

Analiza: That's another idea, Betty.

What's a good professional development program you've done?

Betty: Have Positive Intelligence and that is a program by Shirzad Chamine from Stanford, which really helps you to really address your Saboteurs. And you know, hopefully, you know, get past them.

Analiza: What's your definition of a Boss Mama?

Betty Ng 32:43 Boss Mama is someone who really stays focused, and always remembers her own passions and purpose, and doesn't lose sight of that. But really takes control, and really drives that impact, as opposed to letting you know her life be dictated by someone else.

Analiza: What advice would you give your younger self?

Betty: So much advice? Yeah, see your identity as your superpower. That would be one thing. Let's build extremely diverse and inclusive relationships. Because frankly, your network is your net worth. And especially having a diverse and inclusive network can help you with any challenge that you may face. And also, you can help others too. The other thing I would say to my younger self is speak up. And that is about articulating, asking and advocating. So, you know, articulating, making sure that you really, you know, you know, think about what your key messages are, and make them known. Ask in terms of, you know, if you don't, you don't get too don't be afraid of asking and make sure that you advocate not just for yourself, but for others.

Analiza: Beautiful. And then where can we find you? I know Inspiring Diversity. Where else?

Betty: LinkedIn. So look for Betty B.E.T.T.Y. last name, and is Nancy. G and Greg. And if you look at Betty NG, Inspiring Diversity, you will find me.

Analiza: And then last question, what would you like to leave us with in terms of parting thoughts?

Betty: Parting thoughts, make sure that you play work, and live well, together with everyone be Pickleball Positive. And actually, so all kidding aside, the initiative that I'm doing with Pickleball is called Pickleball Positive and you can also check out our website pickleballpositive.com. And learn more about our work and see some videos we have some sample videos on those A to Z behaviors that we all should be more mindful of. But really, just think about how you can be the best version of yourself, not just for you, but also for the world.

Analiza: Great, thank you so much, Betty. This has been lovely. So appreciate all the stories and the inspiration.

Betty: You are welcome. Thank you so much for the opportunity. I really appreciate it.

Analiza: Thank you so much for carving out time today to hear today's podcast. Three things before you go. First, if you found it helpful, please leave a five star review. Second, please share with someone else you can share the link and posts on Facebook and say check it out. Lastly, I want to thank you for being a listener and you can go to get a free self care bonus called juicy your joy at analizawolf.com/FreeBonus. Thank you so much