Analiza: Welcome to the Women of Color Rise Podcast. I'm Analiza Quiroz Wolf, proud Filipina American mom of two, and former CEO of a nonprofit and Captain in the US Air Force. I'm on a mission to support having more diverse leaders at the table. We'll be talking with successful CEOs and C suite women leaders of color and learning about their leadership journeys. If you're a woman or woman of color, who wants a seat at the table, you're in the right place. Now let's get into today's show.

I am excited to be talking with Maria Leticia Ossa-Daza. And we'll call her Leticia for short. She is the chair of the Latin American practice at Willkie Farr and Gallagher. And she's been doing this for over two decades, specifically focused on mergers and acquisitions in so many sectors like finance, tech infrastructure, consumer goods, she has in addition to her practice, a bunch of awards, and I'm going to highlight two of them. Latin vexes top 100 lawyers and 2022. And then the legal 500 named her as the top one of the top lawyers in its power practice, power list. So I'm so excited to say you're here. Thank you so much for joining us.

Leticia: Thank you for the invitation. I'm very excited about this conversation.

Analiza: Leticia, let's start with your identity. How do you identify and how has that played a role in this career you've had?

Leticia: Well, that has played a very important role. So I defined myself as you know, I need to grin, I have a very international profile. Because growing up in Colombia, I went to a French school. So my second language is really French. And then for college, I went to France. So France is a very important country. In my heart, I got married there, I started my career there. And then I moved to New York 18 years ago. So as you can see, it is very international but the challenges that you have when you have to adapt when you have to make friends in a new country, when you have to learn a new culture or a new way to do things. And also a language that is not your native language.

Analiza: Leticia, I'm hearing that when you were born in Colombia, you moved to France, you picked up many languages. And then now you're in New York, and you have this pretty powerful career. I'm curious, when you think about how you were able to not just survive, but thrive in a pretty male dominated, intense and this is a New York, kind of epitome of intensity. I'm curious, what were your Thrive strategies, when you look at your career and the leader you are now you're like, oh, you know, I really relied on these insights, these strengths of mine.

Leticia: So look, growing up, I faced many challenges. When I was 10 years old, I got sick, and I was sick for a while taking medication. So God made me more persistent and resilient, I would say, and I always knew what I wanted on Wednesday. You know, I said, my parents are lawyers too. And when I said, I want to be a lawyer, I want it to be the best lawyers show to me. I have always had in my mind that I have to order a car and just give the best and just be very disciplined and persistent about what I was doing. So I got a scholarship in France, I was a scholar, by the French government for a during my college at Siemens for and then last or bone on, you know what I would say that really, really working hard and knowing what I wanted, and knowing also that I had the full support of my parents was always one of my biggest strengths. So I knew that no matter what, if I needed to go back to Colombia, or that, you know, there was something that I could go back and I had my parents there, right. And then when I moved to New York, Justin, I started to build a Latin American practice having the support of Wilkie and my mentors was also very important, but I would say overall, really being persistent has been like really my strength right? And just keep going and you know, you have so many things that sometimes, you know, take you down or challenges but our windows just keep going and making you know the differences really, also to play to your advantage right? It was just like knowing the different languages being from Colombia and knowing the culture in Latin America that really moved me to gray, the Latin American practice

Analiza: Leticia, this knowing it sounds like a few things. One is you knew what you wanted pretty early on. And your parents were very supportive of you. And your hard work focused on the school helped to pave the path so that when you're in this pretty high, a fluent and really prestigious role, you're then able to take these foundational skills and strengths, and then actually apply them. And so I'm hearing that plus I'm hearing this concept of failure and being able to be resilient, even when things don't go as planned. Can you talk about that? And particularly, because it sounds like you use some sort of strategy, when you fail? Or when it doesn't go? Well? Is there talk about that? If so, when did you apply in terms of your strategy?

Leticia: So look, honestly, I don't so when I get asked about failures, like, I don't have any to say like, oh, you know, this time I fail, or this time, I see more than failures, I see that we have challenges, right? But we learn from everything. And I think if we change, really how we see the world, and we see those challenges as part of life and things that will help you grow, that makes a huge difference. Right. So, you know, I had a very tough divorce. But you know, instead of me complaining, oh, my God, you know, I have these awful divorce, I have to work at the same time. And I have to do these, and I have to make sure that my daughter is fine. I took it as a, you know, a learning experience. And I learned so much about it, that I will not change it, I will just do it again. Right to do the same thing. Thankfully, we sometimes see those challenges more as failures, right. And failures to me means like, Oh, you have to completely just like stand up again. And if you see them more as challenges, and as part of life, then you just see it more as the Okay, this is just keep going on, right? You have to keep, even if you don't see what is there, and sometimes, you know, everything seems a little bit blurry and confusing. You just have to keep going and understand that honestly, you know, pain is part of life. Challenges are part of life. And the good thing is that they will not stay there forever. So I think that has really been my strategy more than anything.

Analiza: I love that you don't delineate there's a failure, and then there's a challenge, actually, life is full of hardship. And hardship isn't necessarily a bad thing. Because challenges help us be the people we are. And I want to applaud you when he said that you even named that a divorce, which is really painful. Actually, you would have done it again, because you learned so much about yourself, and I'm sure you're stronger for it. I am curious. Leticia, when you think about being who you are with your Colombian roots, and you being in a place where you're not necessarily surrounded, right, you founded this Latin American practice, and you have all these insights. So can you talk about that? Because it's, sometimes we see that as a challenge, or even hardship or even a failure. Now, here I am, I'm surrounded by people who don't look like me, don't have the same background, maybe don't understand me. And I'm curious how you approach that challenge. And were able to, I mean, here you are thriving as a leader in your organization, what was your perspective for this?

Leticia: I think at the end of the day, whether you like the authors or whether you have a different path, I think we all have the talent otherwise we will not make it. Right? So if we have the talent, and you know that you have it, and you know what you can add to the organization, I think, then, you know, you find your way to just talk about it and just like for people to see it. So of course, you know, art Sherman's entrepreneur has been agreement or and friend, but I remember when I started on I, when I was an associate, and I went to his office to say, look, I have this idea to create a lab and where you can practice, and this is what I need to start it. And he was fully supported. Even if he didn't know me at that time. That was the first time that we were talking. And it was the first time that we were talking about this project. So I think it is really when you have that confidence of believing that you have an idea that could be interesting, that deserves the support. I think then you know, you really get people to believe in it right and to convince them also,

Analiza: Leticia. I want to go here. This is a great example of not only did you want to have an idea. You believed in yourself, I have something to contribute. And three, I'm actually going to go and share this idea with a pretty influential person who ended up being your mentor. Those three things are not necessarily practices that everybody uses. And so I'm curious, because this idea that you are confident that your ideas have value. Where did that come from? Have you always had that? Is that something you build? Because it's really beautiful for women of color to hear that from you and say, you know, I'm coming in? Here I go, I am absolutely a value. And here I go. So can you talk about that?

Leticia: Look, I think my mom has always been, I mean, again, my parents have been my biggest fans and supporters. And I remember that my mom always when I was getting ready for school even more, or you know, to go somewhere. It was whatever it's like, really young, right? I remember she was like, Who is the precious girl? Who is the smartest girl? And I was like, of course me, right?

So she always said to us, and my cousins, I remember, they were like, oh my god, your mommy's so annoying. Say you lie. But she really nurtured self confidence in us, you know, we will be alive to say that I have always been confident. And of course, I have had many times where I doubted myself, right? I think that one thing that will make a difference, and in particular, women of color is just talking about our challenges. And you know, saying this, like, oh, there were many times where I don't feel, you know, what, I feel the imposter syndrome. There are many times when I don't know whether what I'm saying is the right thing. And you know, knowing that even people that we see that are very confident and that have stellar careers do doubt themselves.

Sometimes I do have impostor syndrome which rarely helps. Right? But I think it's something that you know, and I tried to do it with my daughter. He's not, and my parents were very rarely sick. At the same time. You know, I used to play basketball, and they were like, Oh, you really suck at it. They went once I remember. And this was on the weekends. And they won once and said, like, Okay, this is the first and last weekend, we're coming to see you because you're not really made to play basketball. And you can feel like, Oh, my God, that's awful. Well, no, because I wasn't really good, right? There were things that I was really good at, and others that you know, that I wasn't. So they did encourage me to keep going. That's what I wanted to do. But they were like, look, is not really your thing. And that helped me eat that instead of just like me say, you know, you know that you don't trust my talent? Well, they weren't just also clear about the things that I was more talented at.

Analiza: Leticia when you name that experience with your parents first that they were filling you with love, especially your mom and validating and reminding you about your intelligence and your beauty and all those things. It's such a beautiful Foundation. And at the same time, it wasn't like Leticia, you're perfect, you do all the things really well. And you're a fabulous basketball player. In fact, they named for you know, you're actually not good. And that's okay. But just so you know, we're not going to come again. So is this realistic, you can do, you can be honest, and also validate. And it has allowed you then as you have had some self doubt, right. And many women of color say, and I can do hard things, and I will get past this. So taking that idea and applying it to the situation of I have this idea about a Latin American practice, I believe in myself, to go and share that idea and three to actually go to a person with influence and power to name it. I think that's such an amazing career move, because then you founded the practice, and you ended up now you're a leader, and you're continuing to have impact. And so I want to name that as a strategy because it's quite, it's not something in the playbook, right? When you go to school, and they're like, here's how to rise in your career. It's often to do a good job, do a good job with what's given to you. And make sure that you get performance reviews that show you're doing your job. And often it doesn't include actually thinking outside the box. Think about your unique skill, your unique background, and how can you therefore use your lens, your special lens to come up with an idea that could help the business and sure, maybe it won't be the perfect idea, but go and have value in that and actually advocate so I want to name that because it's often you don't see that written in books or in articles and career advice are often like go and do a good job with what you've had versus like think outside the box. So thank you for that.

Leticia: And that's completely right. You know, one of the things that I do a lot with my team Even with my mentees is telling them that right, I feel like my role as a leader is not having people that will tell me what I do or just like, No, I tell them my experience, but I do want to get the best version of themselves. And finding those things like asking them to think outside the box to come to me and come with a business plan and say, Okay, these are the things that I'm really good at. These, I think, are my strengths. These are the things that I need to improve. And this is how I see myself in the next five years, because then you know, people are also accountable to it, right? So we need to work towards a goal. And I think that's so important, we're doing that. I love to do it at the end of the year, because you know, that's a good time to reflect about what you have accomplished in the year that is 17. And why do you want to propose and have in mind for next year, and you know, and they will just prefer their business plan and send it to me by January 15. So we can work together on that through the year.

Analiza: Leticia, this leadership advice that you give your mentees and your team and actually practice because you're giving me specific dates of when you're going to wrap up the year. And then when it's due in January, it's such a nice call out to the fact that we all have different strengths. And we all have different needs. And we all have different goals. And that's okay, that there's no, here's your career path, you're here, you're going to do what I say you're gonna work on the projects, I say, you're going to have this linear path. In actuality, it's a collaboration, right? It's with both the manager, both the leader and the people and saying, Well, what is it that you want to do? What are your strengths? What is your vision for your career? And then how can we merge that right with company needs? With the team goals? What ideas do you have, it can be a synchronous, like a synchronicity path where we are working together in service of each other, like you don't have to be the organization has goals, and you have goals, and we're at opposition, in fact, together, we can I think even value diversity, equity inclusion, because we talked about that, and like, Okay, we need professional development. And yes, we do. But also do you know your people enough so that you can ask, cultivate those strengths and interests and then merge them with business needs. So I just want to call that out. Because often we don't talk about it? Do you know your people? Do you know that they're special? And they're unique and different? And that's great. Do you know that? So I love that? Because I know you care a lot about DEI as well?

Leticia: Yes. And you know, seeing them that they are all different. And they all have, you know, different ways to get to different places is just amazing. I mean, I really think that is being authentic, that we'll be able to be our best version, right? I mean, we don't have to be somebody else. I mean, the way we trust in the way we talk in so many others, like you know what, I used to be more conscious about having an accent. And again, like English, I learned English when I was probably 10 years old 11. But I learned French when I was four years old, right to the pronunciation. And you know, my daughter, my daughter speaks three languages completely fluently. And she's like, Mom, the pronunciation is BS. And I cannot really hear the difference, because I wasn't used to listening to English all the time. But I speak more than three languages, right? So that's fantastic. So instead of being so conscious about my accent that I have, or mispronouncing, well, I tell myself, I speak more than three languages, which is great. She was really seeing, you know, those things that make you different and authentic. That, you know, doesn't matter. Like, I'm really cool, even with a little bit of an accent. Right?

Analiza: Leticia I want to talk more about that because authenticity is sometimes a fear, right? If I am my authentic self, oh my gosh, people will think that I'm an Asian person, and well, I'm actually I don't meet the stereotype or I do meet the stereotype. Now, I think that I'm an athlete, and that's what I am, who am I to say that I run marathons or whatever else who am I to lead in a very soft way or a more aggressive way I used to be in the military sort of way. And I want to talk about your leadership because authenticity seems to be important for you as a leader and also you as a mother and also you as someone who helps cultivate mentees and your team. So I want to talk about how you have multiple languages and you gave a great example of accents. Can you talk about yourself as an authentic leader? And particularly, was there a time when you were doubting like, should I really show up in my authentic way as a leader? or, and then maybe what you learned from that and how you then pivoted to being so authentic, what were the lessons learned as you became this really authentic person that you are now?

Leticia: I think if it came naturally, I would say, would the evolution of me to, like, you know, becoming more confident and also growing in my career, I think that are just simple as the, you know, as the way you trust, right? So lawyers, all like they are very, you're black, or blue, or dark blue or gray. Right. And you don't use any other colors. Well, I love yellow, right? Or I love red. And just like saying, oh, yeah, I can work yellow. I can just like it when I'm stressed. And instead of worrying, just like, you know, the black suit, the heart also gave me the shrine to just be more myself, like, you know, dancing the holiday buddy because I love to dance and actually, you know, people love to dance to that also, you know, became just part of me, right? Because part of my culture is that we love to dance, or that we talk with the hands so things like that, that you start seeing and you start saying I'm feeling more comfortable or talking about your roots stride, and also just like yeah, gaining that confidence on you know what I'm so proud that to see now you know, the first met Oprah in Spanish floating Sinhala Amazonas is fantastic. Seeing, you know, I was at the Kennedy awards on now, last week or a week before and Gloria, Stephen, open, it would come down to just like also seeing more of the Latinx community coming up and just becoming a stronger like, also helps to say, uh, you know, this is great, like, you know, going back to your roots, and actually praise them, that is a great thing. Those are things like becoming more confident. And just understanding that yes, those things that make you very authentic are part of your brand. Or for a few

Analiza: The examples you share with us Leticia of how you became more confident and then actually lean more into who you are with your dress with not being so focused on the accent and more focused on your assets in terms of being able to speak so many languages and then seeing representation recognized. Like these are people who are being recognized who have always existed in terms of talent, and now we're seeing that talent more representative across the different arts in business with you, as well as with the dance floor. I mean, I want to name that because often at a holiday party, right? Leticia, people are a little bit hesitant to get on the dance floor and show their softer side and to be able to get out there and break those traditional thoughts of stereotypes that you actually can you can be a full person, you can be a great leader, and you're founded this Latin American practice you having a ton of impact. And you also love to dance. And you also love color, and you can use your hands. And that is not a knock actually on your leadership. It's actually part of your leadership and part of your brand. So I'd love to ask one question about brands. And if you were to say, you know, when I think about brand, if I were to advise a woman of color, who's trying to find their feet trying to sort out well, Leticia, I'm in an industry, it's white, male dominated, and there's a couple of people of color, mostly male, I want to do what you're doing. But I don't really know where to start, I don't really know what a brand is, can you share, you know, here's some tips about how to be able to do that, so that they can get to where you are and then out on the dance floor or however they want to express themselves.

Leticia: Sure. So look, I think when I started the Latin American practice, one of the things that I did, and I think we need to do is like one makes me deeper in on what I think so I'm really craving that, right. Like, this is what makes me deeper. And these are the products that it currently exists. These are the different practices that are out there, and how can I differentiate myself from them? What are things that he will do better? What are the things that I can do better, what things I bring to the table that others are not doing? And really, I don't think we sometimes think about it on a very organized way, right? Because again, you know, I saw it grow With everything, and I have been added to it right, every time that I hear, because I didn't want to bring the same things that older practices that existing practices were bringing otherwise, you know, how can I compete with them, but knowing that you can compete on a different level, knowing that you can do things differently, and that's what is the value that you can add, whether it is on a practice, whether it's you do certain things that are really important, I think we don't think about them enough. You know, I always say, and actually, we should teach more in college about it, I do believe we are, we are our brand, right? Like, you know, I want to be identified with this, this is what I think my leadership brings to the table, you know, like, I want to be vulnerable, I want to be authentic, I want to talk about, you know, the things that I see as the challenges that I have had, I want to be honest, I want to be open about it. Like those are things these are the other things like, you know, this is the pro bono work that I want to do, too, I didn't identifying those things really help you to start building yourself building your career building, who you want to be who you are, and also building a practice or a business.

Analiza: Leticia, I'm hearing a few things. First is that we should do a self assessment for ourselves, where we bring something unique to us because of our differences that no one else or very few people have. And so what are our unique qualities that we can recognize? So I hear that, second, I hear what the organization needs, that I uniquely can contribute to what ideas that I can have, that will drive the bottom line. So I hear about the merging of organizational needs and our uniqueness. And the third thing I hear is, there's a piece of our brand that we actually can craft because often we walk on our day to day, Leticia, here I am, there's not a lot of strategic thought. But actually, I can get clear about my brand. And my brand isn't just here are all my accomplishments that you see on my resume. But actually, there's a lot of power to the struggle or the challenge and how I overcame them. They're a struggle, there's the vulnerability that could help be part of my brand, showing up authentically not trying to be perfect. And then also the big dreams about helping others philanthropy pro bono work, that is part of something you care about, but also part of your brand. And so how can we share all of that and be more open? Because that helps us develop not just our professional resume, but actually our full authentic selves? I love that so much. I wish I had learned that earlier. Often we talk about MBA programs and leadership. But where do we talk about brand and authentic brand? So that's so beautiful.

Leticia: Yeah, it was funny, you know, I think it is really something that I have been thinking more and more about, right? And really helps. I mean, you sense that you say something about perfectionism, like, I have been filling my reflection inside my whole life. And you know, when he's funny, because I thought to my parents, and it's not something I mean, they were very driven. They were great at their own careers and practices. But I don't think they weren't as perfectionist as I am. And that's something that I have also learned to manage. I just say, look, it's fine. I don't need to be perfect, right? I'm not perfect. And I love to be imperfect, because that's the way I can keep learning right? And being curious about other things. And about well, you know, one thing is that I recently heard what we're talking about right before we started, like accomplishments are things that are highlights of the year. Last year, I started grading and you know, what I wrote when I was 17 years old, 18 years old, and I was in high school, and I really enjoy it, but I didn't do it after I started again last year. So after a while, and of course, I wrote contracts, but not writing for fun about any topic and that I am enjoying it. I have been enjoying it so much. So those are things that you know, when you think about things that you like before and that you stopped doing those things just like start coming by, and I love it and you know, I think I'm good about it, but he's just like also Giving your space to be curious, do have quiet time to just think about other things that you want to do also. And that is so important. Otherwise, you know, we just like to keep going on with our day to day and forget about other things that are really important.

Analiza: Leticia this pause and reconnect with ourselves. And there are some childhood loves that we might have forgotten. And so hearing that yours included writing and how you've brought that back, that's okay. And that actually, if we look at our journey, as a place of possibility, and dreams, and that if we have space to access those dreams, how powerful, how powerful that we can continue on our journey to learn and fall down and have hardship that actually those are ways that we get stronger, and it's okay, in fact, not just okay, but it's part of it. That's the only way we can get stronger as if actually, there's some times where it's hard and I love that you're leaning into that because it's not like you Okay, now I've got a PhD in writing people often are like, I need all of these degrees Lutetia right Yes. To do the thing I care about. First I need all of this validation to show as a woman of color as a person I can write, but actually you can just write and then see how it goes and you'll learn something and maybe you make some mistakes and that's okay because the point is that you're following your inner compass. So I love that so much.

Leticia: Yes. And then you are like if you know if you find what your profession is and nothing will be perfect, right? So every time that I used to read it and I was reading it again in my column because I published columns I read louder polygon, which is a financial newspaper in Colombia. So I was writing four or three per month, you know, if my perfection will stop me then I couldn't get anything done. Right. So learning also that okay, you know, there are some that I like more, there are some others that I thought were just okay. But do like keep just like keep it coming. And you learn and you don't need to be perfect to start to do something or you don't need to do as you said, you know, have a PhD to be able to write well and then you know, people would read it and we're gone. But the most important thing is that for me, it is important, and I enjoy it.

Analiza: It's right first, do you like it? Can we just do what we enjoy? And then just go at it versus being our heads? Should I do it? Do I have enough? Is this okay? Oh no. Just do it. Do it. Do it and see what happens. So I love that. Leticia Are you ready for our lightning round questions?

Leticia: Sure.

Analiza: Okay, chocolate or vanilla?

Leticia: Chocolate

Analiza: Cooking or take out?

Leticia: Take out?

Analiza: Climb a mountain or jump from a plane?

Leticia: Climb a mountain

Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Leticia: Oh, no.

Analiza: How would you rate your karaoke skills on a scale of 1 to 10? 10 being Mariah Carey?

Leticia: Well, you know, I love to sing, but I don't think I've seen that well. So I don't know. I think it will be more in the middle. I will say more in round five.

Analiza: What's a recent book you read?

Leticia: Recent books well I was reading yesterday. Doce Cuentos Peregrinos I don't know how you say it in English. I'm sorry. But from Gabriel García Márquez because those are the short stories that he tells son and I was reading that with my daughter just yesterday.

Analiza: What's a favorite way to practice self care?

Leticia: My quiet time every morning. So I wake up early, and I work out and I do my meditation and that's just my me time that I need every day.

Analiza: What's a good professional development you've done

Leticia: Well being now part of the executive committee has been a great highlight for this year.

Analiza: Congrats on that. What's your definition of a boss mama

Leticia: A Boss Mama I think we all are a little bit so is you know is inevitable. This like not to be a little bit bossy sometimes but I think you know does like also lead your children just be themselves is great. So hopefully I'm not too bossy but my daughter

Analiza: What advice would you give your younger self?

Leticia: Myself? Do more.

Analiza: And then where can we find you any social media accounts LinkedIn.

Leticia: So on LinkedIn, I'm quite active on LinkedIn, I think is just Leticia Ossa-Daza. on Instagram like those like keep it more private?

Analiza: And then last question, do you have a final ask recommendation or any parting thoughts?

Leticia: Well, one thing is that whatever seems impossible you know can be possible if you really trust yourself on your heart. I think I have learned that and you know, when really learn from the challenges like ask yourself every time that you have a challenge, what can I learn? And I think that really helps you realize,

Analiza: Thank you so much Leticia for all this really appreciate you.

Leticia: Thank you for the invitation.

Analiza: Hi, thank you so much for carving out time to hear today's podcast. Please, 3 things before you go. First, if you found it helpful, please leave a five star review. Second, I'm excited to share that we have a new book. It's called the Myths of Success: A Woman of Color’s Guide to Leadership. It's based on the lessons learned of many women of color leaders, including those on this podcast. And you can get a free chapter at analizawolf.com/freechapter. Lastly, we have a Woman of Color Rise program, and it's a six week online cohort program this spring. They'll build relationships with an intimate group of other women of color leaders, and to also walk away with a career growth roadmap and strategies to grow and career. Check out analizawolf.com/course For more information, early bird pricing ends February 9. Thank you so very much.