Analiza: Welcome to the Women of Color Rise Podcast. I'm Analiza Quiroz Wolf, proud Filipina American mom of two, and former CEO of a nonprofit and Captain in the US Air Force. I'm on a mission to support having more diverse leaders at the table. We'll be talking with successful CEOs and C suite women leaders of color and learning about their leadership journeys. If you're a woman or woman of color, who wants a seat at the table, you're in the right place. Now let's get into today's show.

Hi, everyone, I am excited to be talking with Radha Ruparell today. She has an extensive background working with top leaders including CEOs, fortune 500 executives, she's currently the head of the global leadership accelerator at Teach for All. It's a global network of organizations and more than 60 countries committed to developing collective leadership to ensure all children fulfill their potential. Rahda has got a great background - prior to Teach for All she worked at McKinsey. She's a graduate of Harvard Business School, Harvard Kennedy School, and is also the author of Brave Now. So much to listen and learn from you. Radha, thank you so much for being here.

Rhada: Thanks, Analiza excited for this conversation.

Analiza: Radha, you and I met through a program on leadership and consciousness and how to integrate all parts of ourselves, including the head, the heart, the soul. I'm curious as you reflect on those days, has anything stuck with you? Because this is a few years back?

Rhada: Yeah, such a good question. I loved meeting you through that. And the work we were doing, there was just one deep listening. And I think the biggest thing that I learned from that experience was, in order to listen to others, we first have to learn to listen to ourselves. And I think in this Go, go go crazy, busy world, we don't create enough time and space for that. So that's just one thing that I've taken away. And I'm practicing all the time. Now, take a moment to pause and listen to myself. And I try to encourage others to do the same as well.

Analiza: As much as both of us are in the professional development, training, leadership support space. It's fascinating that I think the listening course you and I did together with Bhavana is maybe the only listening course I've ever done in my very long career. How about you?

Rhada: Yeah, it's incredible. You know, at least I think about that, because I work in education. And so I work with leaders, reimagining education all around the world. And I keep thinking that for kids, we learn math and science. Why don't we learn listening and the fact that as adults, that it's such an important capacity, and we don't learn it to me, it's quite crazy. So I love that we were able to do that. And I think we need to create more spaces like that in the world,

Analiza: Radha because it's such a special class and shout out to Tony and Brendalynn and Neil who created such a beautiful experience for us and will include this in the notes, I want to just go back and just share a few reflections if we may, just on how important it is to listen. Because as leaders, we're you know, think about the vision, think about the end in mind. What do we want for our children? Who's out there that we need to convince and persuade? How do we stand with conviction and authority? How do we navigate organizational politics? We're so out there with all of these things, and we're trying to control and yet we miss kind of the main step, which is, have we really been present enough to understand our own filters, our own coming to the table. And as much as we think we're open minded, we actually have baked in so much, and we're not as flexible as we think. And if we're less unaware, I wonder how unaware we are about other people. So interesting, because I feel like you and I work so much in the space of transformation, and how do we get to these huge shifts in education in the world. And yet this shift, when we look internally I'm like, do we really even are even aware of the things that hold us back the things that wonder

Rhada: 100% Analiza. So you know, both of us were doing this work to change systems. So I always say you're trying to do this work out there to change systems, but you've got to start in here. So if we don't want polarization in the world, and yet with your family member or with your colleague, you're sitting there and judging them, then how is that anything going to change? Right? Or if we want people to be more understanding and compassionate of one another, and our listening of ourselves as like, Why did I do that, again, blaming myself judging myself? How are we going to shift anything in the world and I love what you said, Analiza even those of us we're doing this work, the minute you start becoming aware of this, you know, this, you have all of these filters, all of these listening filters, like you're judging someone, you're judging yourself, you're saying, this is right, this is wrong, I'm better than this person, or that person is better than me, I'm not good enough, or I'm too good. And I think if we can be light and playful with recognizing that all of us have these filters, all of us have these things that are going on in my mind and just become aware of that, then we can start doing something about it right, then we can start saying, All right, well, let me put that aside for a second. And all of a sudden, we can be with one another in a different way. And so I am not looking at you with my preconceived notions that you, I'm just able to be with you as you are.

And the thing that I've discovered in practicing that, and it takes practice, because we like our stories, we like our filters, it is easier to put ourselves and others in a box. But when you're with someone just like that, and when you're able to be with someone without filters, you can get really surprised, and in beautiful ways, right? You get to discover something about the other person that you didn't know, or all the stories you had like this are going to be very difficult and can disappear, because you're just there with that person in that moment. And you allow them to be who they are. And you allow yourself to also surprise and evolve over time.

Analiza: Radha If I were to kind of codify that, as even as simplistically as we'll try to make it first is, can we be aware of our filters, deep seated, deep seated childhood childhood stuff, often it's a chip on our shoulder, the thing we're trying to prove the hammer that we use throughout our lives to make that thing go away, whether it's worthy, I'm smart enough, I'm not whatever the thing enough. So be aware of filters. Second is to put that outside and actually be present, ground our feet, that's something we've practiced, pause, be still, take a breath. And that's why meditation is so important to coming back to the here and now. And then lastly, can we have an intention of being a listening and I use that as a noun that we often think like, oh, listening, listening to verb and like, actually, it's a presence. It's a, it's a vessel, can I be empty enough to receive you without all the preconceived notions and just have an intention to be here with you?

Rhada: Beautifully said, I think you just put it so nicely. And it sounds very simple. And it takes some practice. But once you practice, it is just that simple. It's just being with one another. And I think, by the way, kids do this beautifully. At a certain age. They're just with you. And so when I'm with my nieces and nephews, I learn a lot about presence, because you're just there with them without any judgments and filters, up until a certain point. So yeah, thanks for thanks for sharing that. analiza

Analiza: Radha, when you're thinking about your upbringing as a child, did you think that you would have this path, this, you'll eventually go into a listening class that you'd be leading this huge global initiative and education? Was that what young Radha had?

Rhada: No, I'm laughing right now. Because when they asked you, what do you want to be when you grow up? All you know was the things around you. I think I was five and I might have wanted to be a bus driver because I like my bus driver, right? Like, that's, uh, you know, then at some point it was a teacher because that's all you have exposure to. And then I spent some time in hospitals because I don't have close access. And maybe I'll become a doctor, right? And it's, you have this very narrow window. And this was at the time that we didn't even have the internet. So you just know what's around you.

But I would say a couple of things. I was always a dreamer, right? So I always had this very, very active mind. And so I grew up in a very global family. You see my parents, they grew up in East Africa, my grandparents, they grew up in India, I would spend summers, my brother and my sister and I would sleep on mattresses in my grandmother's room in London. And so I think I just had a vision that there was something bigger in this world. And so I would always allow myself to imagine and dream and I was always curious about people. But yes, I never imagined that I would be doing leadership work and doing this inner work. But I think the beautiful thing is now that I look back, so much of it makes sense. I was very curious. I was always interested in people. I had spiritual traditions, you know, passed down to me like by my grandmother, which maybe I didn't even notice that I can now bring them to my work. So looking backwards, a lot of it makes sense. But no, I did not have a fixed path or a dream when I was that young.

Analiza: It's fascinating because as we look back, while we might not have had these dreams that make sense, you being a dreamer, having this pretty international background very young. Yes. And then wanting to connect people, right? The inner motivations of people unleashing potential. That's what you do today. So as much as we sometimes wonder, like, how did that happen? And like, oh, well, it makes a ton of sense given young Radha.

Rhada: I remember when I was 12 years old, my parents had saved up money. You know, we grew up in Canada, but I grew up with a very Indian background, that was my first language, you know, my twin sister and I would speak good Gujarati, which is our language and class. And at that time, we would get reprimanded for teaching the other kids around language. But I grew up very much with my Indian community and an Indian language and Indian culture and food. But in Canada, I remember my parents had saved up money to take us on a trip to India when we were 12 years old. And we drove two to three hours on this dirt road that went to the middle of nowhere. And we stopped somewhere, we asked, Where are we?

And basically, this was the world village where my great grandparents are from, and where we were, there was no school there. There were kids running around barefoot, and they were incredible, right? They're incredibly lively and full of life. But I remember at that moment, I realized, why is it because I grew up in Canada, like, I get to go to school, I have these opportunities. And these kids are incredible. And they're full of life, but they don't have any of what I have. Now, at that point, I didn't have language, right? I didn't have language around equity, or potential or anything like that. But I think that's when the seeds of something began in me that wait, no matter where you're at, everybody's got this light within them. How do we create opportunities for everyone to shine? And why is it that I have opportunities that others don't? And now I have a more sophisticated language around it. But I think that started when I was young. So I always had these questions why this doesn't make any sense. And that's probably some of what brought me to the work that I do

Analiza: the transitions from childhood, and then you going off to Harvard, double Harvard degrees here, and then Teach for All I'm curious when you and I met during that Bavana experience. And as we are trying to practice listening during the pandemic, I'm curious for you, Radha, you had written this book, Brave Now. And for me, it was very inspiring, because you came from being really, really unwell. And I think on the brink of possibly death. And in that really tough time you created this beautiful piece that was about stepping into our light, about having these curiosities, but actually making them happen, because we never know. And I remember being very inspired that you were just like, let's do it. Let's let those preconceived notions of ourselves go because we only have today. Let's give some background here, rather what was going on at the moment. And you know, how was this book birthed? Did you plan this book before what happened?

Rhada: You're making me laugh, because you're reminding me of something about my childhood. I'll come back in a second. But yeah, and so here's what happened. So about four years ago, peak of the pandemic was April 2020.I remember vividly because I was starting to get very tired, and I was on a conference call. And I was about to say something, and I lost my breath. And I literally had to get off the phone. And we won't remember it now. But that was the point where people were talking about this new thing called COVID. So in New York City, you know, this was the time that things were shutting down, you couldn't even get Tylenol from the pharmacies, there was no vaccine, there were no masks and the hospitals and I got us a phone and I said, I think I have this. And then within a couple of days, I was completely bedridden, I couldn't move, I couldn't find my breath, I would barely get any sleep, I would wake up in the middle of the night, my heart would be racing. 150 beats a minute.

I had a good friend who was a doctor, he said, please do not come into the hospitals. We do not know what we're doing. We're making makeshift hospitals. I lost 10 pounds in three weeks and finally ended up in the hospital. And they found a lesion in my brain. I mean, it was just my whole body was failing me. And you know, this is from being a healthy, ambitious, active person to all of a sudden my life was disrupted. And in the months that followed, I was one of those people who got long COVID.

And again, there were many nights, I wasn't sure if I was going to make it truly and slowly I started to get a little bit better. But even then going for a walk in the park for five minutes, I would get short of breath. When I started returning back to work, I would have to lie down every hour just to be able to make it through the day. And so everything that I had taken for granted movement, even my mental energy, right? There were times when I couldn't read words on a page or even when I came back to work, I could make it through about one phone call and then I would have to lay down for two hours just to make it and so everything in my life got disrupted. And so when I was going through that, I think I needed to channel my energy somehow And so I just started writing.

And I just started sharing my experiences of what I'm going through. But here's how I'm getting through it. And everything that I've done to work with CEOs and social entrepreneurs, every lesson I've taught them, I had to apply that to myself, just to survive. So I had to learn how to slow down, I had to learn how to reach out for help, and not feel like it was a burden, I had to learn how to be compassionate with myself, I had to learn to find beauty in the small moments to be able to get me through the hard ones. And so that's how this book came to be.

And I'm laughing that the story of my childhood was, I just remember this. But when I was a kid, I used to love to write, and I wrote my first book at eight years old, and I was about 10 pages, and I was about a family of rabbits. And then I never wrote again. And so what's funny is, in these moments, people asked me, Did you plan to write a book? No wonder it literally half the book, like, flew out of me one night, in the midst of pain and insomnia. And so I think it's often that we have this stuff in us, we've suppressed it. And in that moment, I had nothing to fear. I didn't care if I looked stupid, I didn't care if what I wrote didn't sound right. I had no fear. Because as you said, on the news, I didn't know if I was gonna have another day. And so I said, let me just share what I've got with the world. And that's how this book brave now came to be. Yeah.

Analiza: I love how you had written a book about rabbits. And like the opposite of, I'm going to step in and do it today. Because this concept of fear, because let's go there, because, as leaders, right, you think, wow, Harvard to Harvard and amazing background, and you support leaders and CEOs, and how can you be fearful you've got going like, if you're fearful, like what does that mean for the rest of us? And yet, it's more commonplace than we think. And many of us don't have the life or death situation where we don't know if we're gonna make it. And that's what gets us to push to do it. Because we're like, well, we can do it tomorrow. We can do it next year. 25. Come on, like, what's another year, I just got to this idea is brewing, I need more time to brew. And so let's talk about that, rather, because what would get us like, if we really, if you boil down fear and say, Okay, let's not be on the deathbed here. More normal, right? We're so COVID. But like, let's say, for someone who has an idea, it could be a book, it could be a podcast, it could be an idea at work, it could be anything proposing to someone they love who knows what the thing is, but how do we overcome that uncertainty. And yes, you know, put ourselves out there because sadly, like, there's nothing as I don't think there's anything as like a guarantee, I'm not sure if we have any guarantees.

Rhada: There are no guarantees. Listen, I'm present to that every day, because even though my health has improved, I know I can relapse in any moment. And so now, I do not take a single day for granted. But you're right, you don't want to have to get through a near death experience to get there. So here's what I've learned about fear. First of all, there is nothing wrong with fear, like I will tell you, I had a lot of fear. So for me, being brave does not mean having no fear. Of course, you're gonna have fear, you know, every time. And if you don't, then that means maybe you're getting comfortable. And you can play a bigger game and live. So I always have a little bit of fear. And that's not a bad thing. If it's too much, it can be debilitating. But if you have just a little bit of it, it can activate you. So for me, being brave is not the absence of fear. For me, being brave is just taking on each day or moment. And you putting yourself out there a little bit, you know, try giving something a go, if you've got something within you just remembering, we each have one life to live. And we each have a bit of light in us. And we spend so much of our time trying to conform to the rules of society, or worried about what people think about us. That's not what we're born to do we have something to offer. And so what I say is just go out there and do it. And what I started realizing is what's the worst that can happen? Right? I put my book out there, someone's not gonna like it. So what right, what's the big deal, and we're so afraid that we just hold ourselves back. And yet, then we're hiding a piece of ourselves that we could could offer something to the world. And so what I found was, you know, it started with writing, like, I had never put anything out there it was, you know, this bookstore because I put a piece out on social media and never put anything and 20,000 people read it. And people started writing and saying this is making a difference in my life. But here's the thing, if one person had read it, and I got three bad comments, so what because when you put yourself out there, you're gonna have a bit of that. But so what I got to experience something bigger, and when I started getting less afraid in one domain, and I also found I got less afraid in other domains. So another thing that I discovered is now I express my love freely like to people in my life to family members, to co workers if they do a good job, but I'm not afraid of expressing myself and what I've discovered as you build beautiful relationships, and back then that felt horrifying to do. And so I think once you start taking a leap in one area, you realize it's not so hard and so all I would say to people is if you've got an idea, just take the first step and just give it a go. Because we don't have forever and you probably have something to offer. And you'll feel that good about it. But you're also offering something to the world. So please, please go and give it a go.

Analiza: I want to highlight a few things here. Radha first, being brave is not the absence of fear. Some fear is healthy, because it helps us see that we are not comfortable and we're growing. We're growing as teachers and growth is healthy. Growth is important. And so let's make sure we see that fear is the good thing in moderation, right not to scream, but in moderation. Second, I hear that fear doesn't have to be like jumping off a cliff, right? Yes, it can be taking the next baby step, waking up anew and doing something that feels a little uncomfortable. Exactly. And the third thing I hear is, when we allow ourselves to lean in, we open something new. And that newness could be relationships with people that we didn't even know could be a close friend, a support a cheerleader, it could also be a new skill that we didn't remember, since we were eight when we wrote about rabbit, right? Yeah. Or it could be this new potential offering. But it's a gift to the world, even if we might have everybody think it's the best. And even though not a lot of people think it's the best. These are gifts that we never know who will receive them. And I think the biggest recipient actually is ourselves.

Rhada: Exactly. And you look at all these, either so many artists and offers in their lifetime, they were never acknowledged and they were laughed at. And yet now, we read their great works of art. And so don't worry so much. And I think the last thing I'd say is one of my philosophies on life now just be playful, right? Somehow it was so significant, right? Like, everything is so serious and so significant. And look where many of us are doing work and operating in a world where there are so many challenges. So I do not mean to dismiss that at all. And yet, we've lost our ability to play like I just got myself a keyboard. And I used to play a little bit when I was a kid. And now I'm fumbling away. And I'm having some fun with it right instead of being like, I have to be perfect at this. And so I think that's the other thing about I think what holds us back is this idea that what keeps us fearful is I've got to do it right, I've got to do it perfectly. And that just stops us from taking the first step. So just also have a little bit of fun with it. And so what if it's not perfect the first time around, enjoy the process, we've lost our ability to play. So I encourage us to find it again, it's a lot more fun.

Analiza: The point about being playful, I have to underscore that. Because yes, we're facing lots of tough stuff in life. I don't want to undermine what's going on in the world. But does it help to be like, Radha, the world sucks, it's all negative. I'm just gonna put, you know, my grim face on and just like, look at all the things that need to be improved. We need to do better, we need to bring our A plus game all the time. I mean, it's just like, does that really help to, like, add more more gravity to a really tough situation? Or could we say yes, it's hard? And how can I still find some joy, some positivity, some light, some way of like, having myself show up each day, each moment with like, some sense of optimism, and a choice?

Rhada: Exactly. It's a choice. And this is what I say is no one person is the same. You know, I have friends who are activists, and all they see is what's not working and what's broken. And unlike we need you in the world right to shout from the rooftops of what's not working right. I have always been an optimist. It was almost like you have to be closeted about that and hide that in today's world, because everybody's talking about what's wrong.

And I'm learning, you know what, I am going to embrace that because we do need people who see the good in people who see what's working. And actually I think the beauty is when you can start embracing it all. Like when I build teams, I love to have diversity, I want to have the person who sees the problem and sees the risks. And I want to make sure that I can see the possibility that no one else can imagine. Now if I don't judge my person, and they don't judge me, then we can work incredibly well as a team and we can just be ourselves. You know, I'm not going to force someone to be an optimist, when that's not the way they see the world. And they're not going to force me to always see what's wrong. But together, we can make a difference. And I think that's what I've come to realize we need many different people who see the world in different ways. But how can we just accept different people because then together, we can create something new and like you said, we can also just feel more at peace because we can be exactly who we're meant to be.

Analiza: And as part of being exactly who they are meant to be. It's not just these work identities. So one thing that Radha I got from your book is just how much we need to take care. or take care of ourselves to cover each other. Can you talk about that? And how has that been an evolving practice for you?

Rhada: Yeah, totally. You know, one of the things that I learned through getting sick is a couple things. The first was, exactly, we're not our work. And sometimes you say, I'm busy. And it's a badge of honor. You know, it's almost become kind of seen as something great. And I just discovered the opposite. You know, when I got sick, I had to learn to slow down, I had to learn to rest in the middle of the day, I wasn't able to do the things that I was able to, I had to learn to say no to things when even I was brimming with ambition inside. And I think it was the best thing for me, because I began to realize that we have to take care of ourselves, and we have to rest and we shouldn't be guilty about it. And I think that's the kicker, right?

Initially, I was guilty about it. I felt like, wait, I shouldn't be doing this. I shouldn't be doing that. But you look at high performance athletes, they build in time for practice, and they build in time for rest, we need to be doing the same thing. So that's one thing I learned for caring for ourselves is to give yourself permission to rest. Change your relationship with time, you may never get everything done on your to do list for the day. That's okay. It's really okay. That's 95% of his work. Let go of the guilt around that, you know, I have a practice every week, where then I look at, hey, what did I do? What did I didn't? Did I lean into my energy? And I've just learned to kind of let go of that and lose one thing that I discovered on taking care of ourselves, it's not a solo act.

And so the most beautiful thing that I got out of my own illness was realizing how many incredible people I have around me. And it wasn't just one person, it was a whole group of people who showed up for me in different ways. So there was the friend who made me laugh, when everything was dire. There was another friend of mine, who, when I couldn't walk, would bring his dog over and we'd walk a block. And then the next day, two blocks away, there was another colleague of mine at work, who, for months on end, would send me a text every day, how are you doing, and that was the safe space I had to leave at night. I mean, I've been moved to tears by the depths of human kindness. And so I think the other thing I learned about taking care of ourselves is part of the way we take care of ourselves is allowing ourselves to receive from others. And so that was a huge, huge thing for me to build support networks. And don't think about receiving as you're being a burden on someone, think about it as a two way gift. And so that's another way that I just really, really believe we can take care of ourselves by just being ourselves with others, giving to them and allowing ourselves to receive

Analiza: so beautiful, when rest, allow ourselves to let go of cramming and the status of busy hood. Second is, yes, we take care of others, but also allow ourselves to be taken care of to it's like a beautiful relationship that actually can cement these friendships.

Rhada: And it was a huge mindset shift for me, because you know, when I grew up, and again, this is, especially women and women of color, we're used to taking care of everyone and everything. And I remember in the early days, you know, I was pretty fiercely independent. I always had good support networks. But honestly, there were times when I felt like I was just being a burden on others. Because there are points, you know, when you are at your lowest point, I really did need a lot of physical help just to get through the day, help from work colleagues take on responsibilities, I couldn't, you know, emotional support when I was going through difficult days. And sometimes I felt Gosh, I'm asking more of people than I'm giving.

But you know, one thing I started doing again and again, this is because I stopped being afraid I just started asking people, is it too much? Am I being a burden? And that is the scariest question to ask at some point, because you really don't want to hear the answer. No, but I actually became okay with the answer. Yes or no. And I was surprised, right?

I had a doctor friend of mine who at one point was like, yes, it's all too much, because this is what I'm dealing with at work. And in the beginning, I was struck like, Wait, do you not care? And two seconds later, I'm like, Wow, thank you for saying that. Because I've got others right now I can rely on and maybe you need support right now. And I had other friends who I thought I was just being such a burden on and they said, gosh, no, you're helping me feel connected with the world. And so I was able to release into that. And I didn't judge anybody. So I just learned that you have a lot of people around you. And if you're not sure, just ask right. And so I've learned to have these what could have been a very difficult conversation and it's not at all and because of that the depths of my relationships are stronger and we've just learned to communicate about things that used to be unsaid and there's just something so beautiful about that as well.

Analiza: They'd love that because you can die before you die, like having the community and the love and care while we're living instead of cool afterwards. Radha, this has been amazing. Let's do a lightning round. Are you ready?

Rhada: I'm ready.

Analiza: Chocolate or vanilla

Rhada: Chocolate

Analiza: Cooking or takeout?

Rhada: Cooking.

Analiza: Climb a mountain or jump from a plane.

Rhada: I'm not going to choose on that one. I love adventure. I'm picking both.

Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Rhada: Never I love to go bare feet.

Analiza: How would you rate your karaoke skills on a scale of 1 to 10? 10 being Mariah Carey?

Rhada: Oh, singing wise three, but I'll have some fun with the group.

Analiza: What's a recent book you read?

Rhada: I've just finished in this beautiful book Anam Cara. It’s written by John O’ Donohue, this beautiful Irish poet. I recommend it to everyone. It's about love and friendship and looking at what that means in a new way.

Analiza: What's your favorite way to practice self care?

Rhada: Recently, I've been going for a walk every day in the park without an agenda. And it's beautiful.

Analiza: What's a good professional development you've done?

Rhada: Oh, gosh, I just spent a week in an ashram in India where Gandhi used to live and it was a beautiful experience because it just got me out of the space of doing doing doing and it just allowed me to be with others human beings.

Analiza: What's your definition of a Boss Mama?

Rhada: Oh, gosh, a Boss Mama is someone who knows the beauty and power and light within her and is unapologetic about shining it out into the world?

Analiza: What advice would you give your younger self?

Rhada: You know, what is the title of my book? Be brave. Take a few risks. Get out there. Don't be afraid.

Analiza: Where can we find you like LinkedIn anywhere else?

Rhada: Yeah, you can find me LinkedIn. And it's, Radha Ruparell or you can find my book at bravenowbook.com

Analiza: And then last question, do you have a final ask recommendation or any parting thoughts to share?

Rhada: I would just say we can create our own lives if there's a rule in the world. That doesn't make sense. Do you challenge it and create your own way? I've created my own world and I'm having a lot of fun.

Analiza: Radha thank you so much for this conversation. I learned so much.

Rhada: Thank you so much. You've been so fun to do this with.

Analiza: Thank you so much for carving out time to hear today's podcast. Three things before you go. First, if you found it helpful, please leave a five star review. Second, I'm excited to share that we have a new book. It's called the Myths of Success: A Woman of Color’s Guide to Leadership. It's based on the lessons learned of many women of color leaders, including those on this podcast. And you can get a free chapter at analizawolf.com/freechapter. Lastly, we have a Woman of Color Rise program and it's a six feet online cohort program this spring. You’ll build relationships with an intimate group of other women of color leaders, and you'll also walk away with a career growth roadmap and strategies to grow and career. Check out analizawolf.com/course for more information. Early bird pricing ends February 9. Thank you so very much.