Analiza: Welcome to the Women of Color Rise Podcast. I'm Analiza Quiroz Wolf, proud Filipina American mom of two, and former CEO of a nonprofit and Captain in the US Air Force. I'm on a mission to support having more diverse leaders at the table. We'll be talking with successful CEOs and C suite women leaders of color and learning about their leadership journeys. If you're a woman or woman of color, who wants a seat at the table, you're in the right place. Now let's get into today's show. I'm really excited to be talking with Irma Shrivastava today. Irma has an incredible background. First of all, she just launched India rooted. She was a Co-founder of this two week experience for Indian Americans. We'll be talking about that in this podcast, as well as being a board member. And she has a great background in marketing. She was the Chief Marketing and Communications Officer at Randstad, the world's leading human resources services company. And she's also been at Coca Cola leading different brands and growth strategy. Irma Thank you so much for being here. I'm really excited to have this conversation with you. Irma: Thank you Analiza. Such a pleasure. Analiza: So Irma a lot of what we talked about, since you and I share a board journey together is the importance of diversity. And so I'm going to start with this question of your own identity and how that's played a role in your career. Irma: It's so interesting Analiza. We talk, you know, we are where we come from. And my Indian heritage is so important to me. And it shaped who I am professionally because I know it's a common theme for many, but the immigrant mindset and hard work ethic is just something that is ingrained in me because of what I saw in my parents and what they did coming across the world and establishing new roots here in the US. And I value that and didn't want to or could never take that for granted. And that parlays into in many ways the importance of education, and the education focus. And being almost I'd say maniacally focused on good grades when I was younger, and then that translated to a focus on achievement. Analiza: Irma, let's talk about this achievement paradox, because it is both awesome, because you and I are talking. We know each other because we're part of this procedures board program. And at the same time, it has a dark side. And so I'm curious, let's just bring to light, what is that dark side? What did you experience with achievement? Irma: I guess the dark side in many ways, as I reflect on it now is that you can get so focused on achieving that you forget along the way to enjoy the journey and the people and the relationships and the learning that can be in so many different directions, as opposed to just focused on, in my case, that corporate ladder that you know, I kept moving up, and there's a joy in life that you miss out on if you're so achievement focused. And that's unfortunate. There's times when you need to stop and be like, you know, am I following really what my heart like what excites me, and that's a luxury, Analiza: the tension, I feel Irma it makes me think of when you said that our families had to be so resilient and greedy to journey here. And the American dream is about hard work right will help us rise, make a better stable foundation for our families to come even in the future. And so it is a privilege to think about joy and passion and wanting to make a difference when that wasn't maybe what our parents were thinking about. And so I'm gonna go to this idea of culture, and how sometimes there are things, yes, we learn and we want to continue with this legacy of hard work. And also there are things we want to let go. And I'm curious for you, your mother as you think about your career as a mom because I know you're a mom as well. What are things in addition to letting go that we always have to be on the grind, there's joy, and I'm curious, are there other things in the workplace that you were taught that maybe they're myths for you like these are things that will help you be successful? But actually you learned or true and then let go. Irma: I think there is this idea of love, the idea of respect. But it doesn't necessarily have to come with hierarchy and or waiting to be told what to do, I think to really be successful in the workplace, you have to bring new ideas, and you have to be able to think beyond what somebody else may be asking of you and bring independent new thinking to bear. And that can feel uncomfortable sometimes, because you're used to, Oh, you want me to do this, let me go do that. And I'm going to do it great. I'm gonna do it, you know, faster and with greater diligence and work hard to get it done. But in actuality, the real gems come from when you can think on your own and tackle something in a new way. And that it's different than what culturally would have been expected of me. Analiza: While yes, we should respect our elders, and there's a lot of wisdom, it doesn't mean that we need to follow a strict lane of waiting for direction that actually if we want to grow and rise in our careers, especially as women leaders of color, we need to break out of that and share ideas. Be we'll call it not disrespectful. But be willing to share a breakthrough idea that is different or counter to what people are proposing, you've worked in marketing at Coca Cola, you always have to come up with new ideas. And if we're sitting here waiting and saying, Okay, you tell me exactly what to do that will keep you that will keep us at the lower levels. As a senior leader, we need to speak up, we need to have ideas, we need to think outside the box. And that's I mean, Indra Nooyi, right, she was constantly coming up with amazing new ideas, and that I know provided her a faster pathway to the top. Irma: Absolutely. There's that adage, like you have a seat at the table? Don't wait to be invited. And so culturally, I think your question relates to, I think we might have been waiting for the invitation, what you'll see is that you need to sit at the table, and you deserve a spot at the table. And then based on that, reflect what you have to share. And it is very, it's subtle, but it's a very distinct difference in terms of sitting at that table, because those people who are waiting to be invited or left behind. And you know, along the way, maybe I waited at certain points, and I didn't even realize I was doing that. But now there's so many people. And that's what I love about your conversation and your podcast is you're bringing to light for those who are coming other behind us to just sit there, and you will fill that seat because there's only one you and people who need that value that you're able to, you should be sharing with them. And many may question whether they should be sitting at the table or not. And that's unfortunate. Analiza: So I want to stamp that we deserve to be at the table and stop. Because better for business you and I know these innovative ideas, if we all look the same and all have the same ideas that is not going to help us to get innovative ideas. Also, our consumer market doesn't all look white male, diverse population. So we need diversity at the table to bring these diverse ideas that bring business because we allow consumers to purchase things that most resonate. Diversity is good in general, it is good for all so often you're like, Well, if you give that spot to earmark, then the business is going to tank because we're lowering quality. And the reality is that your quality, and you have diverse perspectives, and it's that uniqueness, that unique upbringing, your own experiences, even in India here that allow you to be the leader you are so I wanted to just stamp that. And I want to also say to your main point about multiple career paths is also important. Having grown up and I'll talk about my Filipino American upbringing, yeah, it's like, okay, well, you have one path. And at that time, I thought it would be a doctor. So obviously, I would go straight to medical school. retire, I guess pass out? I'm not sure I was gonna be a lawyer. Yeah. Those are good responses for Asian American girls. Right? And so here we are saying, hmm, who knew that in my case, I would be in the Air Force. And then I would be in brand at Colgate Palmolive. And though remarkable, I know. It's just like an education and now an executive coach and doing a podcast like it's actually these meanderings, right? The privilege but also giving ourselves the permission to say it's a chapter in the book. We have many chapters and in this chapter, right in Irma, you're gonna talk about this new nonprofit, this new venture that you're starting, who knew right that's coming up Age. And so let's give ourselves and others permission that we don't have to have the path marked up, we can allow ourselves flexibility, grace, and also giving of gifts, which show up differently in different stages of life. Irma: Absolutely, I want to put a hard stop on that statement, because I think it's so true. And what I would say is important is this idea that you're always putting yourself in uncomfortable situations. Discomfort is what creates growth. And so I know I'm valuable and I love that discomfort, because that means I'm growing, I'm stretching, I'm learning. And then I'm like, oh, wait a minute, this has become comfortable. Okay, now, what do I need to do? Like, that was great. And here's what it did. Here's the impact it made. And that's sort of driven me a bit through my career. And that doesn't mean you don't want things to be easy, easy is not the goal. That's what you have to become, in some ways a tune to it's that, okay, just because something's hard doesn't mean that it's bad, that actually means that you're growing, and when you're learning. And then ideally, hopefully, seeing that you're making an impact in a way that meat is meaningful to you, then, you know, you're on the right path. And that's what I really love. And it's in the spirit of what we talked about, of creating a eulogy life versus a resume life. And again, this quote by David Brooks is just something that's really resonated with me more recently, as I think about my chapters that you just brought up, and what is it that we're doing. And again, earlier in your career, you may not have as much luxury to be thinking like that. But you can still have it is a sight line, because there's impact that you can drive even while you're learning and getting experiences by building your resume at earlier stages in your career. And that's what I think, you know, is important for women of color to realize, Analiza: Okay, you said so many great things, I want to stamp them from your mouth. First is, there is a piece of courage and comfort, you cannot have both. And if you're too comfortable, you're probably not on the edge of learning. And you're probably not growing to not just your own skills, but also in your career. So choosing courage in those times is actually a practice muscle. And when you constantly learn into courage and lean into courage, that is where growth happens. So we can embrace it and say, Oh, this is scary. This is uncomfortable, normalize that to say, I'm gonna sit at the table. It feels weird. I'm the only one of my background of my gender. It's okay. Right? Be in that place of discomfort, know that you're worthy. Keep choosing courage, because that's the only path to be able to rise and have the impact. We want to save that second year Irma, this beautiful, I don't know the quote from David Brooks. So thank you for introducing it to live a eulogy life and not a resume life. Can you share with us if you don't mind your like eulogy in a sentence or like what is your view on what Irma’s eulogy would be? Irma: Well, you know what, it's a work in progress, right? And that's what in some ways, but there's a focus on what is that impact, lasting impact that I really want to make? And I'm figuring that out, right, but I know that I had for so long been focused on my resume life. And what that means is okay, I went from manager to senior manager to director to Group Director to Vice President to wow, chief marketing officer, a dream like that was what I had sought to achieve. And then you come to realize, But wait, there's a broader impact that I really want to make. And I've started to nurture understanding where that was. And then an idea came to me, my daughter was graduating from high school. And she had a good friend who was of Korean American descent. And her mother said that her daughter was going to be spending a month in Korea In South Korea, with other Korean Americans doing a program after she graduated from high school. And it's the same program her father had done a generation ago, in order to connect with her peers from around the country and get more acquainted with her heritage. And I was like, there's nothing like that that exists for Indian Americans. And why is that? And I was like, that's something that's important. Like, I want that and started thinking about it. And now I'm so excited to be launching India rooted and we're taking our inaugural excursion for Indian American teens to India this summer and I'm not sure where it will lead. But I know that I'm really vested in the vision and the mission of getting teens connected with their heritage, because when you know better where you came from, you can better chart your path forward. And we're gonna learn along the way. But this is the kernel, these are the seedlings of what I see my eulogy life being. And that's exciting to me, it's totally taking me in very different ways. I've developed multimillion dollar brands before as I know you have as well. But this brand is one that's much closer to my heart and every conversation and connection that I'm making and seeing where it will go. And that's exciting. And it's fun, and it's totally uncomfortable. But we'll see where it goes, Analiza: Irma, I want to just apply this eulogy, and I can see your smile, just how excited you are. And we're coming full circle, right, we talked about our roots, and how that has helped you become a very successful person that you are, how you're trying to help your daughter and other Indian Americans come and realize the beauty of our culture's homeland. And at the same time, it is scary. This is not the playbook, your MBA at Wharton, where you learn this your follow directions, there's a way to do this. And actually, you're doing something new. So this new chapter will lean into the discomfort of allowing you not to just grow but also have an impact on something like a broader scale, this doesn't exist. So it could be the thing, right? And I would love to do that for my kids, Filipina American and have them have this experience. So I'll be watching and learning from you. And you're opening many doors. So just applauding you. And I guess like, I would ask you, because you came to this a little bit later, right? You weren't, you're both growing older and wiser. And I'm curious, you're like, how would you sear younger people to follow their passion? Because a lot of us have this via the Doctor view lawyer path. And yet, we're saying follow your heart, you know, like, listen to your emotions allow the chapters to unfold. I mean, that's really different. And so how would you have people? You know, your daughter's going to college? And you have kids in college? How do you have them? Like, listen to these messages of get a job, follow the corporate path rise versus like, follow your heart? What does that look like to balance? Can you balance it? Irma: Well, I do think that there's different chapters, right? I wouldn't say that it's all or none this way or that way. And I think it's just being intentional, because it's hard to find that place that really gets you excited. I didn't find it until I was in my 50s. Right. Like, in all reality, I didn't know what I was looking for, in many ways, but it is this idea of sincerely looking for it, while you're on this journey and building skills. So there is a component in your career, as you're building these are thinking about it in these chapters where you can be building skills and know that intentionally whatever organization you may be working in, that you're learning from those around you, here's what you're looking to learn and build your skills and execute with distinction. That doesn't mean you're foregoing what might be your following or your passion, but you're also looking for that, and then you can apply it. And so that maybe you're in your 20s or your 30s and not in your 50s when you start maybe looking at what that is, but that's there's a component of having some level of comfort or foundation that does come from financial mean, in all honesty, but it's just deciding what level of what that is, and where you'll put that emphasis. So just because maybe coming out of school, you go into some job, it doesn't mean you're foregoing what your passion is, you're laying the groundwork, and you're seeing what you are learning and how that learning will help you then figure out and do what really is, you know, your calling. So Analiza: I want to take this and pivoter Irma. Because you and I met through the Stakeholder Impact Foundation, particularly the stakeholder governance Institute. And I wanted to ask about that because it feels like both of us share a passion for having a seat at the table and being on boards and having people like Roosevelt Geils, who took his has taken his social capital and his experience and bringing other people on this really esteemed board along Long to bring us into the room and conversation. So because that's also I think we get our shared eulogy. And so let's talk about that because we're in boardrooms, right. Not only are we not in the C suite, women of color, but we're also not in boardrooms. And so I want to spend some minutes on why it's important that we are in not just seats of power, but seats in boardrooms, can you share? Like, what does that mean to you, especially thinking about eulogy? Why does this matter? Irma: I think it does matter, because we call it ambition, but in some ways, I hate that that word has a negative connotation to it sometimes, especially as it relates to women, and it shouldn't. But our ambition to have a seat at the table, in the boardroom, or in the C suite allows others who are coming behind us to see that, oh, I belong there. Look analiza is there, armas, there by being there, we are helping others. And then we have to share that perspective of what our experience has been like how we got to the boardroom, once we're in the boardroom, what our experiences have been like, so that then others understand that, Oh, okay. It's not easy. It's not straightforward. But once you get there, here's what it's like. And being a sounding board for when they're having experiences, just like we were unfortunate to have Roosevelt and Steven and the team with the stakeholder impact foundation be our guides, then soon thereafter, for us to be the guides for others and investing our time, and providing people that support along the way. And that's exactly what I am doing and intend to do, as I've been fortunate enough to, you know, get that experience. Analiza: Irma the path to the boardroom, let's just say this out loud, is steeped with so many ladders and hurdles. And what makes it particularly challenging is that these are not like jobs that people apply for on LinkedIn or a job board. They're through social capital, and all of these things that we don't really talk about that we don't learn in school, right? They don't say, “Here, sign up for this club.” And then all of a sudden, you have all this social capital. It's built to family through legacy, it's often white dominant culture. And so it is a hard industry to break into. And this incredible institution that we're fortunate, I mean, fully funded to be part of, it's so special. I don't think there's anything else like it. Irma: I agree. Analiza: In the world I mean, any other program costs 1000s and 1000s. of dollars. And, you know, there's also applications. And so first of all, what an amazing opportunity that we had and shout out to Roosevelt and Steven and the team for the opportunity. And reaching back is really important. And we need to do this work. Because as we try to change things to make it more equitable. Yes, we want to rise in organizations. But we also want to be part of these boards, which have incredible power and help shape our society and help shape people's lives. So I just want to stamp that it's not a joke, shoot, you're unique, like power grabbing, have right open doors. And I didn't think when I was in my 20s, that being on a board was something that I would seek to do, but it's part of change. And Irma: Absolutely, I mean, I worked at Coca Cola for many years. So when I thought about board service, I thought about the Coca Cola company, and I would never have conceived you know, myself, but what you realize it's the experience and expertise and the commitment to serving that there's a need across companies and even nonprofit organizations in so many realms, and you have to stand up for here's what my value proposition is. And I have a seat at this table. I deserve a seat at this table, and here's what I will contribute and here's why it matters and why it will be valuable. And likewise, then how I can share that opportunity vision with others. Analiza: Beautiful Irma. Are you ready for lightning round questions? Irma: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Analiza: Chocolate or vanilla? Irma: Chocolate. Analiza: Cooking or takeout. Irma: Takeout? I wish cooking was better for me. Analiza: Would you rather climb a mountain or jump from a plane? Irma: Climb a mountain. Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals? Irma: Not yet? No. Analiza: How would you rate your karaoke skills on a scale of 1 to 10? 10 being Mariah Carey Irma: 2 maybe even 1 Analiza: What's a recent book you read Irma: The covenant of water. A really good novel part of a book clubs but it was like it was very good. Analiza: What's Your favorite way to practice self care, Irma: Outdoor walks and runs in the sunshine. Analiza: What's a good professional development you've done? Irma: Well, this one was easy Stakeholder Leadership Governance Institute, which you and I had the opportunity to be part of, Analiza: What's your definition of a Boss Mama? Irma: The one who really sits in that seat at the table and owns it on her own terms? Analiza: What advice Irma would you give to your younger self? Irma: I think it ties into what we've talked about, you know, discomfort is a good thing. Don't look for easy when you're trying to figure out your next step. That's not a goal. Analiza: Irma - Where can we find you like LinkedIn anywhere else? Irma: Maybe on LinkedIn, I'm pretty active. I would love for you to check out indiarooted.com you will find me there as well. Analiza: And then last question, do you have a final ask recommendation or any parting thoughts to share? Irma: I think this concept of resume life and the eulogy life are important and not to create pressure. But for somebody to think about what is that eulogy statement. And it's almost like a running dark that you can keep on the side and check in on and I really recommend that for people even as you're going through different chapters in your life, ones that may be more focused on resume, but have a sightline, towards what that eulogy life is so that there are things that you can get involved with along the way. But I think as women of color, we get pulled into our variety of roles that we play, but remember yourself and remember sort of that sideline and it can help you stay grounded. Analiza: Beautiful. Thank you so much, Irma for all these wonderful stories and advice. Appreciate you. Irma: Thank you, Analiza, such a pleasure. Good to see. Analiza: Thank you so much for carving out time to hear today's podcast. Three things before you go. First, if you found it helpful, please leave a five star review. Second, I'm excited to share that we have a new book. It's called the Myths of Success: A Woman of Color’s Guide to Leadership. It's based on the lessons learned of many women of color leaders, including those on this podcast. And you can get a free chapter at analizawolf.com/freechapter. Lastly, we have a Woman of Color Rise program and it's a six week online cohort program this spring. You’ll build relationships with an intimate group of other women of color leaders, and you'll also walk away with a career growth roadmap and strategies to grow and career. Check out analizawolf.com/course for more information. Thank you so very much.