Analiza: Welcome to the Women of Color Rise Podcast. I'm Analiza Quiroz Wolf, proud Filipino American executive leadership coach, and former CEO of a nonprofit and Captain in the US Air Force, and also the author of The Myths of Success: A Woman of Color's Guide to Leadership. It's based on the lessons learned of many women of color leaders, including those on this podcast.

We talk with successful CEOs and C suite women leaders of color, and learn about their leadership journeys. I'm on a mission to support having more diverse leaders at the table. If you're a woman or woman of color who wants a seat at that table, you're in the right place. Now let's get into today's show.

Hi, everyone, I am excited to be talking with Sheila Duke today. She is the CEO of Roads to Success. Their mission is to empower young people. And they've done so much in New York City with after school programs, career exploration programs, summer camp schools, all the gamut of supporting youth. And I'm so thrilled to be talking with Sheila, she has a lot of experience with youth. Her quote that she lives by, is by the legendary Shirley Chisholm that says, “Service is the rent we pay for the privilege of living on this earth.” She has a background of service throughout her life. She has a degree in psychology from SUNY Old Westbury and a Master of Science in Nonprofit Leadership from Fordham. Thank you so much, Sheila, for being here. I'm excited to have this conversation with you.

Sheila: Thank you for having me. I'm excited just like you too.

Analiza: Sheila, can we talk about your identity and how that shaped your path?

Sheila: Absolutely I identify as a Black woman person of color with deep southern roots. My grandmother was born and raised in Alabama, migrated here to New York shortly after college, she went to Alabama State University. And I have been a third leg to be born and raised in Long Island my entire life. And so with that, I consider myself a born and bred New Yorker. And I'm happy to have the roots that I have through ancestry, those coming from the south.

Analiza: Sheila, your entire career has been about service. And it's been particularly about youth. Can you talk about this goal of being CEO? Did you also declare early on that you are going to bring your chair to the table as I feel like children would inspire us to do.

Sheila: So I didn't have real aspirations to be a CEO until I worked for several nonprofits. And I was like, wow, I really think I could be the person at the top shaping policy procedures, and all that comes with being in the seat. Early on I wanted to work with people to help people change their lives, their trajectories. I was from a family of a single mom. And I'm also a poster child.

So my mom, who raised me, was my biological mom. And at the age of 20, she passed away a month before my 21st birthday. And so I was afraid I was again at the tender age of 20. Turning to be now literally almost like a mother. And again, because I didn't know my mom had passed.

And so I always thought about the young people who needed significant connection, or they didn't come from a traditional household where they needed extra support. I was very, very fortunate. My mom raised me, she was my rock. She exposed me to a lot of things. She had been very active in the community at a very early age. And so I attribute a lot of my success because of the powerful woman that she was and how she enabled me to know this sense of community at a very early age.

And so when my mom passed, I had a whole village that linked in to ensure that I was successful, to ensure that anything and everything that I had set my eye on to accomplish, that I didn't veer and that I didn't allow my circumstance to dictate my outcomes. And so I'm very fortunate in that and I think that is kind of the tenor of how I continue to go on. I think it's my Northstar to just continuously help young people, young women of color of all creeds and ethnicities really, to make sure that they know that their people are here to support them, no matter what they're going through.

Analiza: Sheila, I hear you saying that you didn't have the resources growing up. And you credit your biological and your mom for being that inspiration. And not only did she provide a role model for you, but she also provided community. And can we talk about that? Because often community means so many things to so many different people. And I'm curious, what do you mean by community? And particularly when you think about community today, because you're now a leader, and you're a role model for others? How does your exposure to community play into your life and your leadership today?

Sheila: Wonderful question. My community is so colorful, I have so many people. I think at an early age, my mom had me exposed not only in our church community, I was volunteering at our local community center with young people helping them tutor for homework. I was involved in Girl Scouts, I was involved in dance, I had different circles of community all over. And I think that continued to transcend even in college and college, you know, I was an RA. I was student government president. It was all the things right to create circles and waves of people that you then have around you, you know, so that you're never alone.

And I remember distinctly in college, when my mom had passed, there was a huge thing, right? I wanted to quit school, I wanted to just, you know, my grandmother was still living, and I needed to figure out what life would be like at the next step. And it was my fellow RAs, it was professors, it was the president of the college who reached out and said, Listen, you have a bright future ahead. You have to take a week, but continue to press on. Right. And so I had a strong community around me.

I really think that I could have reverted and chosen another path and probably, you know, quit, when you know, times that are hard, but I always tell myself, don't quit. It's supposed to be tough. It wasn't tough, it wouldn't be worth it. And so I live by that tough thing, make it worth it because you endure, you're resilient. You bounce back. And it really is. It kind of shows you the power and the strength that you have in your intervention. That you don't even know you put that.

Analiza: Does that sound like Sheila today's leadership that you have? Do you continue to build a strong community? I'm not sure if you're still in the community, local affairs and the government talk about that.

Sheila: Oh, yeah, I mean, I don't know there's 24 hours in a day. But I think I made 27 in mind, because of all the things I'm involved in. I am an active member of my sorority. I coached undergrad when I was in college. I'm a proud member of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Incorporated, where I serve as the second vice president of our alumni chapter in Nassau County, as a member of our local chapter of the NAACP. I'm a part of the Democratic Club where I live. I'm also heavily involved in my church but indicative of the spirit of the church. And I also sit on a couple of boards for nonprofits, I'm on boards and mentors, because they've nonprofit out in Long Island. And so I do a lot of things.

And usually, because I live by the mantra, you rest when you die, and my mom passed away at a very early age, she's 50. And so when I think of that, I'm like, there's so much that I need to do, because you just never know the time or the hour. And so I put my heart into community, I put my heart into everything that my hands touch. And so I'm just privileged to be a vessel to then be a blessing to so many communities that I'm fortunate to be a part of.

Analiza: Wow, when you said that you can fit 27 hours in a 24 hour day, I thought to myself, What do you mean, and I'm looking at this long list. Sheila, you're also CEO, I'm just amazed and also humbled and grateful for your service. So thank you for that. It's so clear that your passion is your life. You live your values, you live your priorities, and you will not be dying at 50 however, you will be continuing to have impact. So thank you for creating these tables for use for other women of color for people of color. So I'm so grateful.

I'm going to talk about Sheila, how a community often isn't just people that look like us, right? We want to serve people who look like us knowing firsthand. I know this firsthand for myself that my mission is to help young people to help people of color, because we already have the beautiful gifts, we just need opportunities to go ahead and be challenged and share these gifts with the world. So I'm curious about your community. Who does not look like you? And how those people have played a role in particular your ascent to CEO. Can you talk about that?

Sheila: Absolutely. I have worked at a plethora of nonprofit since I was 19 years old. And I have had the privilege of serving under people of color, and nonprofit. But it wasn't until x that under a white male as the CEO of a nonprofit that I truly got my true seat at the table. He not only undergirded me and empowered me in the things that I did for him as the Associate Executive Director. But he ensured that he taught me everything he did. And that was the one difference having sat under two prior seals of color. That was very, very different. And it was really his tutelage, his mentorship, and his guidance that really propelled my trajectory to be able to sit as a CEO of Roads to Success.

Analiza: Okay, we have to say this and double standard, because often we're talking about helping each other. You and I are really committed to our communities helping each other. And yet, we're also noting that sometimes in my case, as well, the people who granted us access not only granted us access provided us the training, the confidence, the sponsorship, because we need someone to say, Sheila is awesome, I am going to put my name to that. You can hold me accountable. I can vouch for her. And we need that not only because we're great, but we actually need that additional support to say to get in the door. And then from then on we can continue on even so we need these, I'll call it blessing stamps of approval voucher, people can vouch for us.

So what do you think Sheila? And I know it's just one right? We're not saying this is the global white man that everyone does. This is how everyone is but as much as you did work for people of color, so I'm sure I cared, right? Why do you think it was this white man who said, I am going to make sure Sheila is set up so that the next role she takes is going to be CEO? What is the difference? You think, like, what was their mindset shift? What was it? Did he get tutored beforehand? What is that?

Sheila: I honestly think he genuinely was conscious about race, about the importance that race plays and nonprofit leadership, and how it transcends when the person that is helping, also looks like the person in need of support. And so I think she was very, very conscious of the fact that he was a white male, serving many brown and black, you know, population. And I think he was very, very conscious. And I think that she strategically and intentionally made sure that the people around him had the ability to create for underserved communities that look like the leadership. And I also think he felt that he had an obligation to help his executive team, take the seat for him to leave out and to make sure that a person of color sat in, you know, seats of CES chips, because I think it was really important to him. You know, he was a lawyer, I think he got it. He had spent many, many years serving the community. And I think that he did enough work within himself to be able to recognize that it's important for leadership to look like the people in need of service.

Analiza: Would you mind Sheila, if we shared his name, because I do want to celebrate him and his practice, if you wouldn't mind sharing who this is.

Sheila: My former boss has been with David Nelson T. And I attribute a lot of my success to him.

Analiza: So, David, I hope that you listen to this, but I do think, Sheila, that this kind of leadership is what we need. Because we talk about anti racism and I know that it's getting thrown tomatoes on on DEI, but really, it's about equity and access and allowing people to contribute their gifts their mission, right To help make the world better to help people who don't have opportunities, and I want to shout out, David, because we talk and talk and talk. And yet the crux of it, is that, I think, and I'd love to get your thoughts here, Sheila, that one of the most powerful moves that can be made toward this real vision of equity, is having the CEO yield power. And not just say, well, good luck, Sheila, I made a mess. I'm gonna have you clean it up. And you've seen this, right, you see a lot of nonprofits and a tough space, and then they call on a person of color. And it's like a glass cliff, why didn't you fix it? I know that the budget was, you know, millions of dollars over budget, and we were underfunded, and our staff culture was a mess, but I don't understand, Sorry, gotta let you go. You just failed as a CEO, there's something wrong right with you. But it's dead, right? You know this, because you've seen it. And it's such great people, right? Who has their health just traumatized because they're like, I'm really strong, but I was put in the situation. And it was not set up to succeed.

So and then you have someone like David, who is aware that to get at the system, the roots, we do need to look at power, and provide, access and cede this power to someone who actually is representative of the community that we're trying to serve. And it's actually more effective. But you don't just toss the leadership and say, up, I'm out of here. And we pick a black or brown person, actually, we train that. And this should be a practice, right? Like, it would be amazing that I have actually a version of David, but there should be many, David, James, whatever the person's white people name is, but I wish that there were that you had a white person who has access to capital, fundraising, all these unique channels that we need, but then says, You know what, as part of my work to, I'm going to set this up. So my team, there's a selection of many people who can take my seat. And then I'm going to continue to replicate this where more people of color have access. And so I'm curious if this is how you feel about this, like a power move? What are you seeing?

Sheila: Absolutely, you know, the percentages are still very low, of people of color and leading nonprofit. And we have hundreds of nonprofits right here in New York City. Right. So that means that we still have a very white leadership led industry. And I think that there is an ability for that to transcend in partnership, one with another. Right, we do a lot of BIPOC leadership amongst each other, as you know, a fellow by party leave. But I think there's something to talk about, like you said, having white counterparts kind of emerge with us, and kind of partner, specifically with those that are aspiring to become VPS, or CEOs. Because it helps in terms of like you said, philanthropy, fundraising for people. So it's very hard because fundraising is very white. And so when you think of networks and spaces and places, you need a sponsor, you need someone to carry along, say, hey, you need to be in this room with these three people. And I think if we did that more, consciously, and intertwine, kind of, like you said, white, prominent leaders with people of color that are aspiring, I think the scales will start to balance, potentially, but we should not be afraid for a white counterpart to be your sponsor to be a mentor, I would embrace it. Because there are many that have the heart to want to do the right thing.

Analiza: Okay, so you know that I like to stamp things because it allows us then to take this to action. Hopefully people then are the people listening will then say, okay, here, how do I do this? So first is that white people at top at lift power, there are people who are invested in making this happen. It is hard to change hearts and minds. I get that. So I want to make sure I'm not saying like, Oh, you should just show up in your white person. Why don't you give me power? Right? That's, that's what can happen. But there are people who already believe that so try to find them. Right.

Try to find them in your circles. Ask for people who believe this about sharing power ceding power. First find them. Second, when you find them. Ask for Yes, mentorship, but even better sponsorship, because sponsorship is what gets us in the room because they'll not just say, hey, Sheila, my advice is you shouldn't be in the room. Thanks for the advice. A sponsor says, Sheila, I have access to this room. Come sit next to me. I will introduce you so that you are part of this room. So, second, ask them to be a sponsor. Third is get the training, hopefully they offer it but ask for the training, ask for the gaps, the feedback, what you need. And you can actually say, you know, is it possible for me? Or how do you see me growing into a CEO role? What gaps use? Do you see both in my knowledge, my skills, and my access? So please give me training advice. I'd appreciate it. So be explicit at each step, because we can't just be waiting around right Sheila and say, who's gonna tap me? Sheila? Is someone gonna tap me? I'm gonna sit here. Somebody's gonna tap me. Wait a long time? What would you add or change to that?

Sheila: Well, I think you know, those steps are absolutely right. But then you have to make sure that your work speaks for itself, right? You have to be diligent and follow through, you have to be diligent and being authentically you. I like to say you can cold switch, but you should not so switch, right. And so that means you should be unapologetically you 110 130%. Right. And that person was sponsoring, you should know who you are in and out. They should know your work. You should know your ethics, they should know your moral compass. Because all those things are very important. That makes you you know, a phenomenal leader.

Analiza: That's beautiful. I'm so glad we're talking about this Sheila. Because as much as we can do the work ourselves and show up powerfully, we do need each other. And we asked, we need community and people who look like us. But we also want to include white people, especially white people with access. So I'm so so glad we're talking. Is there anything else you want to share about this before we move to lightning round questions?

Sheila: I'm very eager for your lightning round questions I've heard so I love your podcast and we can jump right in.

Analiza: Alright, let's do it. Sheila chocolate or vanilla?

Sheila: Vanilla always.

Analiza: Cooking or takeout?

Sheila: Take out. I don't have enough time to cook. I do love cooking.

Analiza: Climb a mountain or jump from a plane?

Sheila: A mountain.

Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Sheila: Oh, I've never won socks with sandals.

Analiza: How would you rate your karaoke skills on a scale of one to 10, 10 being Mariah Carey?

Sheila: Three, and I can only sing in the shower. I would not do karaoke.

Analiza: What's a recent book you read?

Sheila: Oh, like my recent book that I read was from Joy-Ann Reid. She just did a documentary on who it was the love of what is the name for the love of action. I gotta get the name of the book. It is phenomenal. It really showed the depiction of Medgar Evers and the love when his wife, and everything that happened kind of like in that civil rights era.

Analiza: What's your favorite way to practice self care?

Sheila: Probably getting my nails done.

Analiza: What's a good professional development you've done?

Sheila: Personal development that I have done. So right now I actually have an executive coach. And so my executive coach comes from the Institute. And that has been one of the resources to kind of help me kind of navigate the CEO realm. I'm only in year one and a half of being a CEO. And so it was very important for me to have an executive coach that was outside of the realm of the close knit things here in New York. And so she's actually in another state.

Analiza: What's your definition of a Boss Mama?

Sheila: I think of a Boss Mama, I think a person who is powerful, empathetic, and all out just the bomb.com

Analiza: What advice would you give your younger self?

Sheila: I would probably give my younger one so time waits for no one to seize every opportunity that she could get. I wish I would have done more things abroad at an earlier age. And so seize every moment.

Analiza: And Sheila, where can we find you like LinkedIn anywhere else?

Sheila: I'm on LinkedIn at Sheila Duke. I'm also on Instagram at Sheila Duke and I'm one YouTube Roads to Success. You can see us there and you could also follow us to success on LinkedIn as well as Facebook.

Analiza: Great. And then lastly, do you have a final ask for recommendations or any parting thoughts to share?

Sheila: So my recommendation is that every woman who's listening, that hears our voices, there's this one other woman that can glean from even just a snippet of a soundbite. It really is, like I tell my young people, exposure is key. And so expose yourself to as much as possible as often as possible. Read as much as you possibly can. Because knowledge is power. No one can take away what's in your brain. And so I always tell my young people, everything you want to know, it's hidden in the book, if not all Google. You gotta read it in a book.

Analiza: That is right. That is so good Sheila, things like your podcast, my book, The Myths of Success, a Woman of Color’s Guide to Leadership, we do not have to learn the hard way. We do not have to learn by ourselves. The struggle bus is like not just us, roaring around, right the road to success. Yes, we have tried to make it a little bit easier so we can reach back as we climb. Right. That is the point. I love that so much and a beautiful ending. Thank you so much, Sheila, for sharing your story. It's so wise.

Sheila: Thank you for everything that you're doing to amplify the BIPOC community and the voices of women. It's tremendous.

Analiza: All right, Sheila. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you so much for carving out time to hear today's podcast, three things before you go. First, if you found it helpful, please leave a five star review. Second, you can get a free chapter of my book, The Myths of Success: A Woman of Color’s Guide to Leadership at analizawolf.com/freechapter. And lastly, if you're interested in executive coaching, please reach out to me at analiza@analizawolf.com. Thank you so very much.