Analiza: Welcome to the Women of Color Rise Podcast. I'm Analiza Quiroz Wolf, proud Filipino American executive leadership coach, and former CEO of a nonprofit and Captain in the US Air Force, and also the author of The Myths of Success: A Woman of Color's Guide to Leadership. It's based on the lessons learned of many women of color leaders, including those on this podcast.

We talk with successful CEOs and C suite women leaders of color, and learn about their leadership journeys. I'm on a mission to support having more diverse leaders at the table. If you're a woman or woman of color who wants a seat at that table, you're in the right place. Now let's get into today's show.

Everyone, I'm thrilled to be welcoming Kathy Waller today. She is the Executive Director for the Atlanta Committee for Progress. And the mission is to provide leadership on key issues important to economic growth and inclusion for all citizens in Atlanta. Kathy has an incredible career. She spent 32 years with Coca Cola, where she was the Chief Financial Officer and President for Enabling Services. Kathy, in addition, has served as a board member for Delta, CGI, Beyond Meat. She's also part of the board for the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra. Spelman University of Rochester Girl Scouts of Greater Atlanta achieve Atlanta Woodruff Arts Center, the Atlanta History Center and exco leadership. Kathy holds a Bachelors of Arts degree and a Master's in Business from the University of Rochester and she's a certified public accountant. Kathy, there's so much more to you. But with that short bio, welcome, thank you so much for being here.

Kathy: Thank you. Thank you for inviting me to be here. Very nice.

Analiza: Kathy, I want to talk about your roots, your identity, how that shaped this path? Did you know that Coca Cola would be the be all and end all for you? How did your identity shape this?

Kathy: Well, I am a native of Atlanta, and Coca Cola is headquartered in Atlanta. But when I was growing up, I had no idea that people like me could grow up to be in a C suite. Yeah, that was for somebody else that was for people you see on TV or that was this not my reality. So I was in an all black neighborhood and in Atlanta, I went to about Elementary in high school. And then things changed when I went to college. So I went to college in Rochester, New York, the University of Rochester, and I went away because my sister who I'm very close to who I consider to be the first person that kind of advised me and my mentor said to me, I needed to leave to grow up. I was, you know, like a daddy's girl. And I would never reach my full potential if I didn't leave. And she turned out to be right.

So I did, went away to school, went away to college and had to grow up. And we had when I went to University of Rochester, it was less than 5% Black. And then the climate was amazing. It snowed, it was cold from the day I got there and August and didn't warm up until May. I mean, it was freezing from the beginning. And so it was so much to adjust to and so much new, so many new things coming at me that I had to learn quickly how to adjust and how to grow up and how to survive in a totally foreign place. It might as well have been in a foreign country. It was so foreign to me.

Analiza: Kathy, we're talking about foreign in weather, we're also talking about demographics, going from an all black neighborhood school, and then to going to a pretty predominantly white environment. And just thinking about the spaces you've occupied, going up to the C suite of one of the biggest grandest companies in the world, and also sitting on boards. And so this is such a privilege to have those roots and to feel them deeply because you were so embedded in Atlanta, very committed to Atlanta obviously, yet with that advice from your sister, you need to leave so that you can grow up.

Can you talk about that space that is now other foreign countries' space where there are people who don't look like you and then fast forward decades later, that is the space you are occupying? How did you talk about those skills? Because here's, you know, walk us back when I was at the University of Rochester. I am at this campus. How are you developing the skills to be able to navigate later in life?

Kathy: So I met people early on who ended up being incredibly helpful to my career and that supported me throughout. So you know, there was a place called the Minority Student Affairs. And the person who was the Vice President in charge of Minority Student Affairs turned out to be a lifelong friend, Frederick Jefferson. And through that organization, I learned about racism, I did not, yeah, I live in an all black neighborhood and our history books didn't deal well with racism. And so it took me to go into college to really learn about racism, you know, there were things where we would go to go someplace, and my parents were very careful to keep me away from any danger and they perceived it to be with, you know, white people they didn't know. So they kept me away, and protected us from that. So I didn't really understand the world.

And it took me going to Rochester to learn about the world and to learn about racism to learn how important it was to understand people quickly, I got to be really good at determining if it was a friend or foe quickly. And if it was a friend, that was great, if it was full, how do I turn into a better relationship, maybe not a friend, but at least a relationship where we can get along, I learned to develop relationships very quickly. I had to survive. And I'd learned the underlying things, because in Atlanta, because we were really segregated, and in so many ways, there were things I didn't know about how people would interact with me that I had faced full on in Rochester. So the the hatred, the vitriol, I mean, it was not constant, fortunately, but at times, it would spring up, and I would have to deal with it, and figure out where to put it, how to compartmentalize it, how to put it in a box, so that it didn't impact me and I couldn't move forward.

Analiza: I want to stress this point, you said earlier, Kathy, that you had to do to survive your parents who loved you, and in some way sheltered you now you're out in the world, and you're having to learn the skill to survive. And yet, in your career, it actually turned into an asset. So I want to talk about this because I often support women of color, and I know that you're your advocate as well. We don't talk about this, right, we say, Okay, gotta go out there and network. You have even had this advice that it's not what you do, but it's who you know, and we get right, like, okay, okay, great. I'm gonna go to a networking event. And yet there is something about this.

How do I compartmentalize friend or foe? And if a foe, how do I turn it? I want to talk about that, because that is not the kind of advice I wish I had had earlier, because I was just kind of navigating. What should I do? I think that was mean, but what do I do? Should I try to make it work? And then they said it again? I think that was a microaggression? You know, like, talk about that, Kathy? Because it's so hard to explain to somebody? How do you turn a foe into a friend? What is tolerance for you? Can you bring us into that in more detail?

Kathy: Well, so you've got to find a way to understand the person's basic nature. And so actually, it's an observation thing. You watch them with other people, right? You watch them as they encounter other people they don't know. And so it is what I learned. And what Dr. Jefferson taught me that it is difficult to hate someone you know, right? Unless there's something that is boiling water about you. But if it's really just about race, once you get to know somebody, it's like you erase those other things around them. And I don't condone that. I don't think it's a positive when people say, you know, it's, the rest of the race is bad, except for this person out, you know, it's because that's not appropriate.

But I looked at it as if I was representing, and helping them to understand that everything that they had grown up under thinking and perceiving is not the case. Right. And so that was hopefully giving them a piece of reality about who black people really are, and taking your time to allow people and actually it requires you to be a little vulnerable to allow people to get to know who you are showing them your heart before you expect to see there's takes a lot of patience, but pays off most of the time. And sometimes you can't turn to the person who sometimes cannot get past whatever it is that stops them from understanding who you are, knowing who you are.

But then, you know, another thing Dr. Jepsen taught me is that that's not actually my problem. That is actually their problem. And that's why I had to learn how to put it in a box and compartmentalize it and you know, kind of nail that box shut. It could not impact the way I interacted with other people. Right? I couldn't use that one person, that bad experience to judge everybody else. So I think when I sum it up, I learned how to meet people where they are except who they are, and then allow them to To end us to develop whatever relationship we're going to have, and to enjoy that relationship, whatever it is, at whatever level it's going to be.

Analiza: So great. Kathy, I would also add to something you shared earlier is, sometimes we can't turn them. And that's not about us. It's not personal. It's beautiful. Because often as women, right, we like, Do you like me? If you don't like me, there must be something wrong with me. And we sit in that, right we sit, sit and sit, but actually, in this case, it's not about me, you got to do the work, and I am not able to help you on your journey. So peace out. I'm going now.

So Kathy, I want to talk about this. Because now, like at the senior levels, right at Coca Cola, you're making your way up to CFO, and there must have been people, right, who were not easy. And you're wondering why I have to be here? Should I just let them go? Are they turnable? Can you talk about that? Because I want to talk about how you navigate those spaces when people are becoming more open? Thank goodness, but there's still people who are stuck. So can you bring us in a little bit more? Do you ever just wait more patiently? Because this person is very senior? Like how do you trade off seniority or mean navigation, political navigation.

Kathy: So it's interesting that you know, when you get into an organization, like the Coca Cola Company, which is a global organization, and people have to learn how to deal with so many different nationalities of people, right, particularly at the senior level, you travel all over the world, and you deal with all kinds of people. So it is much more, it becomes much more of a subtle thing when that they and so it's not that they don't necessarily like you, but they could still think you're not capable, because you're black, right? That you're not as good as because you are black, they still will treat you well. There'll be friendly etcetera. But they won't be able to move past the senior US having skills and abilities that are equal to theirs, because they just think you are not equal to them. And that is, you know, pretty much a US problem.

So it is, it's not about being friends or friendly, right. And so then what you have to look for, is almost a level of accepting who you are versus being friendly, right? Because if they truly try to understand who you are, and accept who you are, they accept you fully with your skills, your abilities, and recognizing your talents. Right? If they only say you're a nice person, and then you know, we both work here you, we can be friends, and we Oh, nice to work with you. But I'm not going to trust that you can rise up and do certain things that's totally different. So it's like the nuances that you're looking for. Right and people. Can you turn those nuances?

Analiza: I'm hearing Kathy share that there is a relationship, do we like each other? But then there's also do you accept me as full me that's competent? And can you look beyond your bias? Your stereotypes and race, right and say, Actually, she is for me as an Asian, she can lead, right? I am athletic, really, because that's not what I think about for Asian women. But actually, okay, I can accept for you and that, she's different from my stereotype. And so it is very subtle, right? It's very subtle, and it is about observing, and allowing for the possibility of surprise, because we also have stereotypes I know, I have stereotypes of like white men, you know, here's probably what they're thinking of being. I hope I played all out. And yet, sometimes I'm surprised. This person is very open minded. And Kathy, you have not only, I mean, black women at the top role of a huge company, but also in finance. I mean, we're not talking marketing. I did marketing at Kellogg at Northwestern, and you hardcore finance roots as a certified public accountant. And I want to talk about that because that is another stereotype. Right? When you think about it, okay, black woman, she's a financial genius, right? How did you navigate being a financial leader, and what were the nuances of that piece as well?

Kathy: So being a financial leader, I had years of experience there, right before I got to be CFO, because I had many finance roles within the company and director financial reporting, which means I brought in the financial results from around the world. My group prepared the financial statements. I was the chief of internal audits. I was a controller before I became CFO. So I had all of those roles before I became CFO. And most importantly, I had an amazing team. So none of the things I accomplish would have been possible without an amazing team working with me when I say amazing there was, you know, we got all kinds of crazy deadlines thrown at us and requests thrown at us and my team met them all, you know, I go to bat for that team that I worked with all of those years for the rest of my life because they were amazing. And so team matters, people you surround yourself with matter, it they that matters, whether it is you're in college, or whether you are in workforce, people around you matter a lot. And they help you develop and move forward, or they don't. So that's important.

And so at least people that I worked with for so many years and kind of grew up with in the company, right? When I became CFO, they were still there for me, they were all in. And we were still this team, this great team was working together. So the leadership part started with this, you know, because I had a great team to lead, first of all had very, very few problems. And my team and I had practice for so many years of being a financial leader that the leadership part for finance was easy. Yeah. When you are at the level of a CFO, you are a leader for the company. That means you've got all of the other disciplines you can support everybody, and opening my time up for whoever wanted to come see me or whoever needed support from me, I had to learn how to do that. Because you know, finance took a lot of a lot of the time. What was most important to me was that I made the time for the people, and that I help people develop. And so I made that time for whoever wanted to come see me, whoever needed the CFO, whoever needed Kathy, to help them support them, I made that time for them.

Analiza: Kathy, I have to say that even the way you responded to that. It just shows how much of a transformational leader you're the type of person who cares about people. And from the get go surround yourself with people to help build them up, support them, they support you. And I just wanted to share how having women of color at top seats actually brings this inclusive leadership naturally, because it's not about here's me, I get to be at the seat at the table. It's actually us and I bring our team and I help elevate us as we climb, we're reaching back. And we're helping, we're just lifting up others and their work. And so I wanted to shout you out for that just even the way that you talked about your accomplishments. And then the second thing I want to talk about is how there is a piece of I want to develop others. And actually, that's what I'm going to spend my time on as a top leader. That's not necessarily where I would think people would go right. I have a vision for the team, or the organization here or the accolades or here's my next pathway forward.

You talked about how you made time to get to know you, Kathy. And I think that's also beautiful, because we can be ourselves, right, we can be a person versus you know, here's my I'm an elite as a white leader, you know, white male leader who's super slick, I am stoic and mil from the military, right. And so it's like, I am a certain person, not necessarily accessible, but I'm so I just love that piece of just the person, the person of Kathy coming in, I know how much community matters to you.

I want to talk about Kathy, just the financial piece and how it is well, not a path that often women will say, Yes, I want to be CFO, I do think the topic of money is important to raise because it is not necessarily the place in which we're going to talk about our Hey, how much are you paid? Or even? I want a salary increase. And so I want to talk about that. Because you have had, obviously in your experience, a lot of depth with finance. But let's talk about money just in general money mindset, what you've seen with women, women of color that you can give advice on. I don't know if the doctor Jefferson also shared about this, but can you talk about money, money mindset? What do you wish we knew as women of color? The types of trends you're seeing?

Kathy: Yeah, well, I had to learn early in my career at Coca Cola, that IT companies like Coca Cola, where you get a salary, and then you get to a position that then provides equity, the thing we all should be building as equity. I'm so fortunate that I lucked up and and and I spend time talking to people and they share things with me that they don't realize the impact of what they're sharing sometimes right? how impactful it is. So I was having this conversation with somebody about a senior a senior person to me at the time about my salary and what he said to me which which changed my thinking about it was I Yes, the absolute take home salary matters, but what you need to be focused on from now on is getting equity in this company, right? Whether that be through your the stock that you purchase into the pyin or whether but mostly that is you know, the equity that you get as a result of being in this position and doing a good job, etc. And it didn't sink in totally right there. But I thought about it and the opportunity to multiply my wealth came through equity, right? Because you know, we all get a salary and we spend the salary on goods and services and things that we need to survive. But what actually builds wealth for us is equity.

And so I tell people all the time now, focus on how you are building outside of your salary, right? So yes, a certain percentage of salary probably needs to be going to savings, you shouldn't spend everything and then every year, if you get a salary increase, if you're lucky enough to get a salary increase, you should put part of that away into your savings. But if you are, you should be building equity in something equity in your home, or, or buying stocks that give you equity, or if your organization gives you equity, there's many young people think about how they, soon as they can they know, they trade that in to get the cash to go do something, and I leave in an equity, right? Leave it, let it grow. Or if you've even traded it and put it in something that grows because you will be so grateful to yourself to your younger self for doing that. Because that equity is what makes the difference in long term wealth for you.

Analiza: Okay, Kathy, this is why I'm so grateful to talk with you because you've got the financial acumen, but you've also got the insider knowledge about wealth. As an immigrant child, my parents dreamed of me getting into good schools and getting a good job. And in many ways, I have fulfilled that dream. But the myths, I think, is that we don't talk about generational wealth, and we don't talk about the money that is not in the salary. I mean, it's good to have a good salary. Yes, we should ask for the salary increase and negotiate. Yes, yes, yes. So I want to make sure we stand that. But that is not where you're going to build generational wealth. And I so appreciate you saying, I got access, I'm thinking this is a white male who said gotta focus on that equity? Yeah, I know, right? There's so much wisdom we get from our white males. Thank you. And I want to talk about that.

Because, yes, equity, and I hear not only stocks, but also home equity. But can you give more insights, when you're thinking about where to invest? I know this is this time, I won't put your your advice on the hook here it is, it is a free, you know, Will and there's nothing that we're going to hold you to but how would you think about if you're, you know, talking to your daughter, and you're saying to her, you know, here's how you should invest for the long run. Think about, for example, investing in something more risky, because I'd love to expand the pie on what's possible, because often we think, okay, there's stocks, great, you know, Vanguard trust fund, and then there's my home. Okay, great. And it goes beyond the standard of that. And if you have any insights on this, it would be so helpful to share.

Kathy: Of course, you know, so yes, I think the safest thing for people to do, obviously build equity in your home, you buy a home, and then you know, watch that interest rate, take the opportunities to, you know, shift to a lower interest rate, when you get a chance to do that, without it costing you too much money. And then buying a mutual fund or some other instrument that gives you access to lots of different stocks is a great way to start. But I teach people to, you know, mutual fund, what it does the value of that, it gives you a lot of different stocks, you know, your little pieces of a lot of different stocks, and you get to see that portfolio that you have and how it's growing. And, you know, you go through tough periods, like we've been through tough periods, and but the tech stocks continue to do well, etc. But you'd like a look at in your mutual fund, take a look at the stocks mutual mutual fund bought, and which ones are doing well, and which ones are accelerating growing for you, and then take the risk and buy a little small amounts of those stocks. Right.

And, you know, as you are listening to people as they talk about companies, you know, take a risk and buy a small amount of the company just to test it out, and that some companies aren't above a small risk. I mean, you know, when they're putting the 100 bucks a share kind of place that's really mindful about that one, but they're still worth buying sometimes. And you'll be surprised when you buy small amounts, and maybe they have a stock split, that gives you a bigger amount or over time, if you get into a dividend reinvestment program. If they get dividends, that starts to compound, and that's what you're looking for, that ability for it to compound with you doing nothing. And there may be times you know, when the stock stalls because of whatever's going on in the economy. And there's some stocks you just hold because you can, you know, history has shown that eventually they will move again, they will continue to grow. So I believe in holding for the long term and kind of just watching things and not you know, we're going through a recession or a bad period. I just don't look at my portfolio. I just don't look at it. I just don't want to know it all. And so eventually you go back to Get it and you get a surprise because it started growing again, I think, you know, just play around with it just in small amounts of money that you won't necessarily miss and I don't spend the bill the mortgage money or the grocery money on it. But you know, just learn, because that's the best way to learn is just to get out there get in it.

Analiza: I appreciate Kathy, you going deeper into it, because we're not talking about this, right? When I get together with girlfriends, or even when I was younger, we weren't talking about investment strategies, or how we were building wealth or and what kind of risks we were taking. And so I hear from you, one is, we need to be intentional, and actually get out there and do it, rather than just be on the sidelines and say, oh, you know, that's something I'll do for later. Or if there are opportunity costs, we just act now. And even if it's a little bit to act, and then the second is that we're looking at a long term view. And so when we ride out these, you know, waves of emotion know that, in general, that it does have an upside. So let's take away this idea of a way money is not something we talk about salaries. I mean, I love that you were even talking to this white man about your salary. I mean, I don't know that there's just not something we do. Right? Talk about salaries. It's like a no, no. But actually, we gotta bring that out to the forefront. Because that's how we address these salary gaps, especially for men, women, women of color, we need to actually look at what we're facing, and even notice that there's a problem. So thanks for raising that. I so appreciate this conversation, Kathy.

Kathy: Yes. I'll tell you one other really interesting thing as I look at my nieces, and my nephew, and my, then their kids, the nephews have all played around in stocks, even at very young ages and the nieces never have it, which I find really interesting. But again, it's not what you were taught how you're raised, it is necessarily something innate in us that stops us from doing that, unless we're pushed to do it.

Analiza: We got to name it so we're just like you did, there is something about being there's good things to do. There's good things to be there's good things to be talking about. And because this is for many reasons for me, personally, not the thing that women do, right? There's, I haven't lean toward it. And so you and I both have MBAs and have business backgrounds until we need to talk about it and break that stereotype because it starts with us. So thank you for naming that. And let's do it. Right. Let's do it. Kathy, with that. Are you ready for lightning round questions?

Kathy: Lightning round, okay. Yes, lightning round.

Analiza: Chocolate or vanilla?

Kathy: Chocolate.

Analiza: Cooking or takeout?

Kathy: Take out.

Analiza: Climb a mountain or jump from a plane?

Kathy: Climbing a mountain.

Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Kathy: No.

Analiza: How would you rate your karaoke skills on a scale of one to 10,10 being Mariah Carey?

Kathy: Six.

Analiza: What's your recent book you read?

Kathy: Competing in the age of AI.

Analiza: What's your favorite way to practice self care?

Kathy: Oh, I love massages. Yes, I do that monthly.

Analiza: What's a good professional development, you've done?

Kathy: Personal development. So I read all the time. And I get these things that come to my email. And it's about wellness. And sometimes it's about politics. And I eat those things up. And I share them with people when I get them and take quotes from them and use them. So yes, I have services that send me these things.

Analiza: What's your definition of a Boss Mama?

Kathy: Boss Mama? Well, so my definition would be I immediately thought of my niece, who is a wonderful mother, right as a parent, but she is also great at her job and working hard. And I'm so proud of her. So yeah, she gets it done on both sides. She is a formidable woman and I love that.

Analiza: What advice would you give your younger self?

Kathy: I would remind my younger self to be patient with myself and not necessarily be in such a hurry to grow up, but to take life kind of as it comes and enjoy every minute.

Analiza: And then where can we find you like LinkedIn anywhere else?

Kathy: Yes, you can find me on LinkedIn. I don't really do Facebook or any of those other things. I have so many emails that I just don't do those things. But yeah, LinkedIn is the best place to find me.

Analiza: And then the last question, Kathy. See, have a final ask for recommendations or any parting thoughts to share?

Kathy: Invest in learning how to develop relationships, experiment with it if you know people's game networking and that's always a compromise would be a four letter word because it's so challenging for some people to do that. But put yourself in situations where you will look, meet a new friend, or you'll meet somebody and meet new people. That is, don't allow the word networking to stop you from building your network. Because of that network, it will be so incredibly important throughout your life. And I had to give a test. When you look, try to get on board some things, that network is very important. Life is a lot about who you know, and who knows you, right? So you also need to make sure that as you're building those relationships, you're allowing yourself to be a little bit vulnerable, and allowing people to get to know you and know you. Well.

Analiza: Thank you so much, Kathy, what a great conversation. I appreciate you so much.

Kathy: Very welcome. I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation.

Analiza: Thank you so much for carving out time to hear today's podcast, three things before you go. First, if you found it helpful, please leave a five star review. Second, you can get a free chapter of my book, The Myths of Success: A Woman of Color’s Guide to Leadership at analizawolf.com/freechapter. And lastly, if you're interested in executive coaching, please reach out to me at analiza@analizawolf.com. Thank you so very much.