Analiza: Welcome to the Women of Color Rise Podcast. I'm Analiza Quiroz Wolf, proud Filipino American executive leadership coach, and former CEO of a nonprofit and Captain in the US Air Force, and also the author of The Myths of Success: A Woman of Color's Guide to Leadership. It's based on the lessons learned of many women of color leaders, including those on this podcast.

We talk with successful CEOs and C suite women leaders of color, and learn about their leadership journeys. I'm on a mission to support having more diverse leaders at the table. If you're a woman or woman of color who wants a seat at that table, you're in the right place. Now let's get into today's show.

I am so excited to have Erica Williamson Phillips with us today. Erica is the Executive Director of the National Association for Family Childcare. It's a nationwide nonprofit dedicated to promoting high quality childcare by strengthening the profession of home based early learning programs. Erica has a long history of early education and supporting that she was the president of All Our Kin, a leading social entreprise in early education. And before All Our Kin, she founded the second home early childcare center. So Erica also has shared schools with me. So Erica has her MBA and Master's in Education from Stanford, and a bachelor's in science in industrial engineering from Northwestern. I feel like we're bit twins here, reverse with Stanford and Northwestern Erica. But I want to start with Erica, I'm so happy you're here. And I want to talk about your identity. And how that shaped this career path. Did you know you're going to be focused on early education? As a young child? How did this even happen?

Erica: No, I did not know that I was going to be focused on early education. But it does bring so many parts of my identity and my purpose together. And so I love that I'm able to do that. And I think of my work both as early education and supporting young children, but also supporting the amazing early educators and caregivers who are providing these programs. So we call them family childcare CEOs, business owners, but they're also women, disproportionately women of color, who have raised their hands that that they'll be the ones in their community to feel this incredible need of caring for children so that parents can go to work so that children have a safe, enriching place to learn from.

And the reason that's connected to my identity starts at the beginning. So my parents literally grew up on the same street in South Philadelphia, and at the center of that street was my grandma Pease house. And that was my mother's mother. And she cared for all the children in the community. She really provided this safe bubble in the 90s. And South Philly, which wasn't necessarily the most nurturing place for young black children, and did all that she could do, to affirm identity to love us, to teach us, you know, she did not have any support and resources and doing that and ultimately had to stop caring for children. And then she went on to become the beloved lunch lady that everybody knew and really loved. But I always wondered as I grew up, and my career went in a lot of different ways. But I kept coming back to what she was doing. And it would have been so powerful to have a small business right in the community, where the goal of that enterprise is to watch after the children in that community and to work with other resources, schools, you know, other social services to be somebody who is providing resources to the other families in the community.

And that is what family childcare does best, which is what I do right now and supporting home based early learning programs. So absolutely connected to my identity. I get to travel all over the country and talk with primarily women. There are some men who are engaged in this work, but primarily women who just have a spirit of commitment In and a love for children and family and are not going to wait for somebody else to come up with the solution or the answer. They're just going to say, This is what my community needs. And so I'm going to use whatever resources are available to me in order to provide this amazing service to families and children.

Analiza: What a beautiful story to start with your own parents and grandma bees and having this career arc, which is about helping your grandmother and the community support each other and not wait for someone outside to be the provider. It's so lovely. Your coat when you think about your career, you have had many jobs, including strategy consultant at monitor. And then when we met at running the human capital team, basically starting that up and really getting that polished at achievement first. I'm curious, if you faced or believed any of these myths, myths of success, you've had a successful career was there any myth there, where you realize later that was actually not true. And now that you look back, it's a glaring myth, anything particularly come to mind here.

Erica: I remember this, even as a little girl, realizing that rules are not fair, and particularly around the criminal justice system. And seeing cousins of mine who were like big brothers get in trouble for really minor things like firing fireworks for a celebration. Whereas in my high school, one of my high schools, I went to multiple ones, but one of my high schools that had a lot of wealthy, you know, primarily white students, there were students who would steal cars, and not have any repercussions. And so, as a young woman, I would take a step back and see how the rules apply differently.

And I think that was just an awakening that if you do what you're supposed to do, that may not be enough to get you where you need to go to. And it also just made me think a lot around social justice, and how do we have more of a fair playing ground.

In my first career at in my first job, when I was at monitor group, I remember this project, where they made it very clear to us, even though we had done all the work for this project, they made it very clear to the junior consultants, you know, we're like, right out of college, that when we go to this meeting, we were not to say anything, like we're just supposed to sit in the back, take notes, and don't say anything. And we get in the meeting, and one of my colleagues who was your white guy, he like just raises his hand and blurts out something. And I just was flabbergasted because I was like, they clearly told us not to say anything. But he felt empowered, and entitled to say whatever he had to say. And he actually got encouragement around that and really applauded for what he was able to contribute.

And so I remember just sitting back and saying, Well, this, there are different set of rules. And the takeaway I took there is if you don't say something, then you are going to be overlooked. And you know, particularly as a woman of color, we often can be silenced, and the invisible, or either hyper invisible. That was around the time when the bracelets of like, What would Jesus do? were really popular.

And so I would kind of tell myself, when I was going into different situations, I was like, what what a white guy do, because or a wealthy white male person who occupied at that time, most of the senior leadership positions that were around me, how would they enter into something and really push myself to speak up, you know, when it's time for your end of year reviews to ask for, you know, the 30% bonus, even though they made it very clear, you know, there was the bonus is only going to be 20%. I was like I know other people are going to ask them. So I'm going to get left behind if I don't ask. And so that was really the approach that I started taking.

And, you know, I think the next phase after that was figuring out Okay, so since it seems like there's two different sets of rules, how do I share this with others? And to be honest, I think we were at Achievement First together, which was a great fun time. We did a lot of exciting, crazy projects and things that we worked on there. And I felt like my time at Achievement First felt like, how do I take what I've seen in terms of how others navigate systems and ensure other teachers, other educators, administrators of color, understand what the rules are, and are able to get ahead.

And as you know, I did spend a lot of time within the charter schools district focusing on increasing the diversification of our teachers and our school leaders in the back of my head, you know, that's kind of what the reflection was being really clear, you have to network, you have to sort of play within a really unfair structure. But that was the way to get ahead. And taking such a unusual path after business school and in sort of that, that trajectory is just no longer really caring, where the rules are, hearing how others might approach something, and really being bold and unapologetic about setting a new, you know, following a new set of rules.

And so we talk about it all the time, the fact that I'm focusing on home based childcare, right? Where we could come in and say, you know, what are all the things we can do to make homebase childcare look like a school or look like all other settings, that are more respected than, like a childcare program in somebody's home? But you know, where we're at right now is like, No, we're not going to try to fit in another model, it is incredibly valuable to have these home based childcare programs and providers in the community, who do all of the incredible work that we know, can support families, like they just they know families really deeply. They cook great food, they speak different languages. Right? So really leaning into some of the aspects of our work that of like other people have put down and say, No, that's actually a strength of ours, and not something that we're going to change or try and make it seem like we're working, I don't know, working towards like another set of standards.

Analiza: Okay, I hear you say that, in your career, as you realize that there is this myth of fairness, that you had to learn the rules and understand that there are people, particularly white men who don't play by those rules. And in your work, try to teach others particularly marginalized communities, communities of color, how do we understand these rules so that we can ascend, which include one, making sure you speak up to asking for what you want, including that as bonuses are those raises, and three, knowing the right people and networking, that we don't, in our institutions, you and I went to Northwestern, and Stanford, those are not things that are taught at least I did not learn that in non technical courses, and I accepted whatever was given to me, I said, Thank you for whatever terrible deal I was getting, and to hear you then in your work and as leading human capital to say, how do I equalize the system and also teach people, there are these unspoken rules, these invisible rules?

I'm also hearing Erica, that as much as we're learning these rules, you're actually creating a whole new framework, a whole new way of thinking that places like home based childcare, where people think, oh, it's not a job that should be respected. But it actually is incredibly important to the organization and the fabric of a society. And we should see all the beautiful strengths and the necessity of it and how you're now creating more fair, more equitable ways of showing up. So forget the rules. I'm actually creating something beautiful. I love that so much. Because guess we learn the rules. Yes, we break the rules. But actually, we can create a whole new set of rules and that Eric has what I see you doing, especially as an engineer, industrial engineer, how do we think about the whole system and I love that so much. And you know, I can totally nerd out on it.

I want to ask you, Erica, because one thing I discovered about you recently is that as much as you're doing all this hard work, I remember how much in the weeds you were at this human capital completely, like revamping the system and then also very personal talking to teachers and having to manage so much change. I didn't realize you were an introvert. And so you're constantly on tour. I mean, like rock star. On Tour, you're talking to people, and then to hear Erica, you're an introvert I happen to be more of an extrovert and sometimes I feel I find it tiring and challenging. But yet you're doing this as a major part of your job have continued to rise in your impact and career. Can you tell me Erica, what is that like for you had to be an introvert lead out in front, but also take care of yourself? Can you share?

Erica: Absolutely, I think that's a it's a funny question, being an introvert and having to kind of pump yourself up for speaking engagements or places and times when you're very much externally facing. So I do a couple of things. I mean, I am really mindful about how I engage in and structure different speaking engagements. So I generally have a fair amount of time by myself before I'm doing like a big keynote or a big panels that I'm able to really get, you know, connect with my source of energy, my internal source of energy, I do do a lot of meditation, walking, just having that silent time is really helpful.

One thing I will say about my introverted personality, and this is I do love being in relationships and conversation with people. It is the part of my job where I'm going out and engaging with, you know, home based childcare providers and educators is amazing. I love it. I'm listening to them. I'm hearing their stories I'm sharing, you know, what I'm hearing with them. So that's really great. And I've actually tried to take that I've tried to translate that to some of the larger presentations that I have to give, right? And figuring out how can I have feedback from the audience, whether it is a call and response, or, you know, maybe I just have kind of like, talk to a couple of people that I know will be in the audience. And so then I can bring some of what I've heard from them. I mean, I've even used digital ways that I'm getting feedback. And it's so hard for me to be like, just one way speaking. And so I do try and make it as conversational as possible. I mean, there are some times where, you know, that request is like, No, you just talk for 20 minutes. But as much as I can figure out ways to make it conversational, I will do that.

And I try not to take opportunities that are going to be draining or where I don't think that audience will really value what I'm saying. I mean, there's, I don't mind being a speaker, that's going to stir it up or introduce a different perspective. I don't mind that at all. But what has been challenging is presenting places where somebody or a group might have a really negative view, for example, around home based childcare, and therefore sort of writing off our entire field before I've even spoken. And so those are really difficult places where I feel like there's not a mutual respect for what we're doing or what we're talking about. And I try, you know, I try to be selective and not go to places where that level of respect won't be there. But like I said, I don't mind going places where we disagree. And have definitely had a, you know, presented at a regular Institute panel, where, you know, there were mostly conservative voices. And we were able to align because, you know, they're really interested in small businesses. So are we disagree on how you actually do fun things? We favor more public funding, but I don't mind being in spaces like that, to bring it back to the shared values. It is just something I regularly have to push myself to do.

And I think about, you know, one of Audrey Lorde wrote a whole book about this, right, which is your silence will not protect you. And when I read that, and really dug into it, it was so it was so impactful for me, which is yes, it would be way more comfortable in the moment and to not put myself out there and speak. But I'm actually not going to be more comfortable, I'm still going to have the challenges or the regrets about not saying something. So I just realized that the opposite. The flip side of speaking is not going to be for the benefit of myself and others that I'm working with.

Analiza: Erica in what you shared with being an introvert, and I want to highlight those because they're so powerful. One is that there's a deep self care practice that you use and the power of silence, the power of nature walks meditation, that you obviously practice as core to who you are. So it's so beautiful to lift that up. Second is to find ways that you actually are naturally built to connect with this external speaking. And so your care for people, the conversations, listening, those are things you do naturally. And I hear you say, how do I take that and then bring that to a wider audience so that you can connect? The third thing I heard you say is how do you assess the right situation, because not all situations are for you. And to find places where there are some shared values, the example with the Reagan Institute and being able to say, while we might disagree on some things, we do have some shared commitments and cares, which include having small businesses thrive. And then lastly, that it's not about silence, the quote by Audrey Lord, Your silence won't protect you to be silent is actually not comfortable. And your trading? Well, okay, it's going to be uncomfortable to speak. But I'd rather speak than not speak, and to be really mindful about where we choose courage over comfort, because often, comfort is not really actual comfort.

Erica, it's so powerful to hear you share those practices, because as someone who is an external face to so many people, and to know that you're still leading from your core, it gives us hope that we don't have to be something else, right, we can actually pull from our already strengths and just find ways to bring them to the forefront. So so appreciate that. Thank you, Erica.

Erica: Thank you. Thank you Analiza, I wanted to add, as you were talking, I wanted to add two things one, the first as well, I love self care, I could definitely do more of it. I wish I did way more walking and meditating. And so I do try to build that in. But I just wanted to be honest. But I am not a walking self care person.

And the second thing I was just going to say and being the external facing leader of an organization who happens to be an introvert, I believe the way that I lead is often bringing other people alongside me, supporting others and finding their voices and talking. And that's actually valuable.

And an organization like an FCC, we're an association, there are the family child care educators and leaders who have incredible, like expertise and stories to tell. And because my orientation will be like, Do I really have to speak like, can somebody else speak, it's actually benefited our organization, because it's just provided more space and opportunities for different people to be able to participate in a conversation. And I've, you know, been in places I've been in organizations where, you know, the leaders sort of do the opposite. And you only heard from the leaders. And so that is, you know, whether it's the introvert nest, whether it's, you know, something from the ACA organizations, led by women of color, but I just wanted to share that.

Analiza: Erica, I'm so glad you lifted that because one of the power moves of women of color is that usually we lead with an inclusive lens. And that means that we're not the be all end. All right, as you share your voice with the audience, you're also sharing that with your leadership. And having known you, Erica, you're not the heavy fisted kind of person. You're always soliciting feedback. And you're always trying to make your processes better. And that has been, I think, the way that you operate always inclusively. So I'm so glad you're lifting that because it is a leadership move. And it is generally a theme we've seen Eric, I want to talk about some fun lightning round questions. So if you're ready, we will enter for some fun fun things to learn about you ready?

Erica: Okay.

Analiza: Chocolate or vanilla?

Erica: Chocolate.

Analiza: Cooking or takeout?

Erica: If I have time cooking, but the reality is take out.

Analiza: Climb a mountain or jump from a plane.?

Erica: Jump from a plane.

Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Erica: Yeah, I have worn socks with sandals. Oh, more like maybe to go pick up the mail? Not as a fashion statement. But yeah.

Analiza: How would you rate your karaoke skills on a scale of one to 10, 10 being Mariah Carey?

Erica: Remember, I'm an introvert. So I am more of a backup band. Maybe like a TLC SWV. So a crew, I need a crew fix.

Analiza: So good. What's a recent book you read?

Erica: Oh, a recent book that I read, I think was Madam Liberty. It was about the woman who was of age came of age during the Haitian Revolution, and through circumstances ended up in France during the French Revolution. And I learned so much about both the Haitian and the French Revolutions that I never learned in school in such an interesting way. And to the perspective of a woman and a woman of color. And I think it was called Madame Liberty, really good book.

Analiza: What's a favorite way to practice self care?

Erica: Daily moments of taking time for myself, whether that is meditating in the morning, or going for a short walk around. Also, given that I travel so much, I've become more intentional with my travel and not booking, you know, the 6am flight or the fight that gets in at midnight, because you were jamming a lot of things in but trying to be a little bit kinder to myself on my travel schedule.

Analiza: What's a good professional development and you've done?

Erica: I'm going to think about this broadly. Right? So I, they probably would not call themselves professional development. But I'm currently participating as an Aspen Ascend Fellow and the network, both the network and the space that they provide to dream boldly about the challenges that we're facing has both been really powerful.

Analiza: What's your definition of a Boss Mama?

Erica: Wow, that's a great question. Right? There's a million different definitions. It could be the mom like myself, who is juggling between picking our daughter up and Analiza, you know, that my daughter is actually came home from school sick today, right before today's podcast. So you know, somebody and she's sleeping. So she's, she's good right now. But just being able to do that. Also show up for work, and support my family and the mission of what we're doing. It could be somebody who is at home full time, and has really leaned into being everything for her children, you know, has hobbies and other pursuits on our side, on the side, it can look a lot of different ways.

Analiza: What advice would you give your younger self?

Erica: I think two things I would tell my younger self is, you know, one, it is okay to ask for help. It's actually really gotta be beneficial to you to share times when you're going through difficulties when just being vulnerable, because other people are also going through struggles. So that would be the first thing. And then you have the second one, it will get better. And all these wonderful, beautiful things that are in store and that things come back around, I guess full circle, be nice to people. Because you never know who will come back in your life. And I think I've done a pretty good job of maintaining good relationships, but you just never know. Don't write off people.

Analiza: Where can we find you like LinkedIn anywhere else?

Erica: Absolutely. I am on LinkedIn. I do a lot of posting particularly about home based childcare and the both small business as well as the childcare aspect of the work that we do. Also, you can find the National Association for family childcare on Facebook, and Instagram and Twitter.

Analiza: And then last question, do you have a final ask recommendation or any parting thoughts to share?

Erica: Find time, I also didn't talk about laughing like I try and laugh a lot and just find joy. That's one of the wonderful things about being working with really, really young children and you know, infants and toddlers, I make it a regular practice to get out to different childcare programs and the joy and humor that children have is just so healing and so just make time for joy anytime for laughing with those around you.

Analiza: With that Erica and those wise words. We are in wrap and that is going to be our joyous laughter for today. Just have some fun. This is not so serious, life doesn't have to be so darn hard so that belly laugh, find some comics, whatever it takes just to have some smiles on our face. So thank you so much Erica for this wise advice for sharing your stories and all the wisdom. I appreciate you.

Erica: Thank you for having me on. It is great to be back together. I mean, I think we probably have almost 15 years of friendship and being able to work together. So I'm proud of everything that you're doing, and so thankful for the messages and insights that you've courageously shared with us. Thank you.

Analiza: Thank you so much for carving out time to hear today's podcast, three things before you go. First, if you found it helpful, please leave a five star review. Second, you can get a free chapter of my book, The Myths of Success: A Woman of Color’s Guide to Leadership at analizawolf.com/freechapter. And lastly, if you're interested in executive coaching, please reach out to me at analiza@analizawolf.com. Thank you so very much.