Analiza: Welcome to the Women of Color Rise Podcast. I'm Analiza Quiroz Wolf, proud Filipino American executive leadership coach, and former CEO of a nonprofit and Captain in the US Air Force, and also the author of The Myths of Success: A Woman of Color's Guide to Leadership. It's based on the lessons learned of many women of color leaders, including those on this podcast.

We talk with successful CEOs and C suite women leaders of color, and learn about their leadership journeys. I'm on a mission to support having more diverse leaders at the table. If you're a woman or woman of color who wants a seat at that table, you're in the right place. Now let's get into today's show.

I'm thrilled to be with Dominica McBride today. She is Dr McBride, and she's a leading thinker of how we evolve beyond the current racial paradigm. She's the founder and leader of Become, which values relationships, research and restoration, and these are essential to transforming our society. There's so much that Become does, and it's a culturally responsive evaluation champion grassroots advocates, advocacy strategist Dominica does so much to really bring to light the value of people and that we already have within ourselves to figure out solutions that can move us toward goals. Dominica is also the author of an important book, and that's called Becoming Change Makers: The Exquisite Path to Leadership and Liberation for Women of Color. There's so many beautiful things about this book, which we'll talk about. She has a PhD in Counseling Psychology with a specialization in consultation from Arizona State University. Thank you, Dominica, for being here. I'm so grateful to you.

Dominica: It's great to be here with you.

Analiza: So Dominica, let's start with your upbringing, because I'm curious about how your roots, your identity, helped shape this career path.

Dominica 2:26 Yeah, so, like all of our stories, my story starts before I was born, so my mom and her side of the family is from Haiti, and my grandpa was pretty high up in the military in Haiti. And when Duvalier came into, or was trying to come into power in Haiti, he threatened all of the people that were worth a previous administration, including my grandpa, because he was basically like assistant of the President in the military at that time, and even to the point of like, Duvalier. And as people came to my grandma's restaurant, she had a little restaurant on a hill in Port au Prince, and they said, but Duvalier became president, like, We're coming for you and my grandma, she's from France, and with her little French self. Whatever, we're not going anywhere, like, get out of here. And then later on, she hears on the radio, Duvalier is president, and she's like, We gotta go. We gotta get out of here. Let's go to America. Eventually, it didn't quite happen immediately, because my grandpa was pretty committed to Haiti, but eventually they did end up coming to the United States with their children.

So my mom is one of four, and I figured that something like this conversation happened, where you're like, Okay, we experienced a very traumatic time in Haiti. What is the most opposite place we can go in Michigan? So they ended up in Michigan, which is, as far as climate, totally opposite, as far as the culture, very different from Haiti. Ended up in Michigan. My mom was 10 at the time, and eventually I came into the world in Michigan, in Ann Arbor, Michigan, and was raised from the time of 10 on in a small town, small rural town in Michigan called Leslie.

There, we experienced some really great things around community, really close knit community, people sharing, people taking care of each other, and then also some really hard things about community, just blatant racism throughout my childhood and dealing with that and so that really opened my eyes to the power of community in positive and negative ways, and really shaped my path on focusing in on community for healing, especially healing things around structural racism.

Analiza:

Dominica, this story of your family's roots in Haiti, and then moving to Michigan, which I agree with you are very, very different places, and also having the beauty of a close knit community, but then also, at the same time, experiencing the opposite here of real racism. And you had mentioned when we talked earlier that you had even had the KKK as part of your upbringing. Could you just bring to light, I mean, I just want to share. We were talking about the polar opposite of community love and helping each other, but also experiencing hard stuff like the KKK. Can you talk about that?

Dominica: Yeah, so the grand dragon of the KKK, the home of the grand dragon of the KKK was 45 minutes from Leslie, and so that placement and those kinds of tensions were there too. Unfortunately, I didn't experience anything to the extent of lynching or life threatening, things that people had experienced for so long in our community in the south and beyond, but those tensions were still real around relationships in the community. So just one example, when I was 13, I was walking home from school. I was walking along a path that I had walked every day home from school, and this particular day, I was walking past a home of this boy that we were friendly with, and I would have considered him to be somewhat of a friend, you know, we would say, Hey, how are you doing? Good to see you, you know, when we would pass.

And then this particular day at his house, he had a group of boys, some of them older, the same age, and some of them I had seen before, some of them I hadn't seen before. But as I was walking by, one called out, and then another one and another one, and then they all started yelling, and except for the boy that was friendly, and he just stood there silently, which is still painful, that he didn't, you know, do anything to intervene. And at that time, I was scared. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know if I should shout back, or, you know, if I should run. And so I just was silent. Just kept walking, and when I got home, I just basically fell into my dad's arms crying.

And so situations like that happened and really shaped my path around wanting to use relationship and community as a vessel for healing, because those sorts of things, whether it's things like racism or things like violence like happen in community, in relationship, and that's also a space that we can heal, because positive, healthy relationships can be amazingly profoundly healing, physically, mentally, emotionally in our lives. And so using that as a vessel for equity and liberation and love and unity became my goal.

Analiza:

Historically. I mean, even from Haiti to Michigan and to the work now, just a consistent theme of trying to find safety, love, validation, in the people you're with, in your family, in your your neighbors, your people, you go to school, at work, it is right. We don't just separate. Here's my personal life and here's my work life. We can actually bring those two together. And that's a bit of a myth, right? Just, you can't bring them together. You're not, you know, strong like, why are we talking about love in this work environment? Do we really have to be best friends? Like, can't we get the work done, and yet, you're actually going to say, to get the work done, we must actually see each other and recognize our humanity. That talks about healing, it's a bit of an option. I just want to draw attention to that, because it does feel like, well, obviously, but yet it's not so obvious in the work environment.

And so that's why, you know, the work that you do with becomes so powerful, because the solutions, right? You know, hire you to help me with the problem in my nonprofit, you'd say, well, we're not going to actually just gonna give you a PowerPoint, right with all the answers or the best practices based on research and white papers. We're actually gonna look at your community. So I'd love to just, could you give us a quick overview of how you bring this to life at the workplace? Because I know you get hired from many different organizations. What does it mean to say relationships, healing, the solutions are there. Like, could you give us an example of what that could look like?

Dominica: Yeah, I'll give you an internal and external example of this. And it's interesting that you brought this up. This is a conversation that my team and I just had last week about, like, the tension of healing and love and relationship, like, in the quote unquote workplace, right? Spirituality, or, like, do these things belong in the quote unquote workplace? And I'm like, absolutely, you know, like we are human and healing and spirituality, or the unseen love, you know, as an example, like that comes with us. All of our different types of experiences around those things. They come with us everywhere. It's not like we walk through one door and all of a sudden our past doesn't exist, or our feelings about things, or our opinions don't exist. You know, they're still there, and there's always opportunities for healing.

Healing can look like laughter. It doesn't always have to look like pain and digging in, of course, that's one aspect of it, but it can also look like joy and laughter and affirmations with each other and time with each other and profound connection with each other, right? And that should take place anywhere and everywhere as possible. And in order to create a beloved community outside, we have to be inside. There's no way to create something else that you are not living into or growing into.

And so one example of just like, one small example of having connection and healing and like honoring our humanity in the workplace is the check in that we do, like we do check ins at the beginning of every meeting, and check out, check out at the end of every meeting. And you know, oftentimes we're asking, how are you arriving, you know, in this moment, right? Like even us in this conversation before. You know, there are things that happened this morning that were hard, that were difficult, and it came with me at this moment, right? And so we share things like, Oh, I'm sad right now, or I'm good, I'm celebrating this great thing that happened, like we just had one team member. He was a part of a project that won a Pulitzer Prize, you know, with another organization. And you know that that was something we all celebrated, you know, in the moment, because he was coming in with joy, you know. And sometimes other people are coming in with hardship, and they're coming in with pain or real time trauma, you know, and so honoring like, creating this space to honor the human experience that everybody's coming in with like that has been healing for people, for us to be able to say, No, we care about you and care about the relationships in this organization and in the work, and we oftentimes bring that to

Our work with other organizations too, to do a check in, to develop relationships, to have time, to really get to know each other in a human to human way, have those connections, like in research around cancer prognosis, there's in some research around relationships and prognosis, and just simply a nurse calling for 20 minutes to check on a patient and say, How are you doing? You know has affected the prognosis of that patient. You know their treatment, their health, their well being, the same thing has gone for we were part of this collaborative called courage to love, and it's about infant mortality and creating healthy moms and babies, especially black moms and babies, because there's a racial disparity infant mortality around black and white, and now we know that part of that disparity is because of the effects of racism on our bodies and weakening our bodies, and then also we affecting our babies bodies too, and part of the antidote to that is love and supportive relationships and strong relationships and building that.

And so that's one of the products that we are helping to lead with a number of other organizations in one of the neighborhoods here in Chicago, called Auburn Gresham, and we worked together to bring community members together, and they start working closely together in communities like that. We do the check in together. We learn together, we grow together, we affirm each other. And then they went out and did interventions on their block for social cohesion, to build relationships on their blocks. And so, you know, really creating this ripple effect, like these fractals, right? Like, how can we create a loving, warm, authentic relationship between the two of us. And how can we create in a small group like the create relationships among us, and then how can they ripple that out and make it bigger and bigger in the community?

Analiza: So beautiful to see how this orientation of love can be as small as a check in when we arrive and as the ripple effect, how it can go beyond not just two, but the group and then the community. And it really can be this integration of our full human selves with all the different emotions and history. And yet, if we don't do this ourselves, how can we possibly think of unity for the future?

So how do we model it Dominica, when we think about your book becoming change makers, an exquisite path to leadership and liberation for women of color, you and I share a passion for racial justice and particularly women of color. As women of color, I know that your book has four themes to support women of color, and those four themes are: healing, relationships, owning our power, intersectionality, and I can see how so much of you and what you shared earlier has to do with not just all people, but particularly women of color. Because how are we going to show up in the world and be able to have this transformation without actually recognizing that we have power within ourselves and we can be the change. I know it sounds so trite. We can be this change.

And so I want to talk deliberately, because this piece, I hear a lot about relationships and power and healing. But this point in your book Dominica, about intersectionality, I want to talk about because there's beauty in all of our identities, and often we don't talk about that specifically for leadership. So can you talk about why of all the different themes, I definitely understand relationships, healing, one year, power. Why did you decide to lift up this specific theme?

Dominica: Yeah, the lessons learned in the book came from a series of research and evaluation projects that we did with different programs for women of color, leadership development, from nonprofit leadership to community organizing with Chicago Foundation For Women, this program called cultivate and Public Allies and through the work, no matter what area it was, whether it was philanthropy, whether it was nonprofit, whether it was organizing, women brought up these themes that were integral on their path, in making change, in leading and becoming who they have become.

And intersectionality was one like, for example, one woman had said, this is a black woman. She said, white women don't have to think about intersectionality, but we die if we don't. And so intersectionality, coined by Kimberly Crenshaw, is the intersection of our cultural identities and oftentimes creates compounded oppression in this country and in other places as well. So it's a way to look at our experience in society, and a way for us to be able to develop like intervention in our own lives and in in society, because being a black, middle aged woman has a very different connotation to it and experience to it within society than being A young gay white man, right? Like there's some tension, you know, and both, but the experience is very different for both of them.

And so intersectionality brings those different cultural identities into context. And then the other piece that I like to think about with intersectionality is the positive elements too. Like there's so much that we can grow in, learn in, celebrate in our different cultural identities, right? And so, for example, I started the conversation with my Haitian background. I'm very proud of my Haitian background, you know? And like, it is a source of celebration. Well, of course, it comes with a lot of challenges. It comes with a lot of historical trauma. It also comes with a lot of historical triumph in that too, and bravery and resilience. And so, like, that's something to be celebrated, and that's something that, like, I celebrate. And so thinking about the different ways that culture has influenced our personalities, our decisions, our actions, can also help us to learn more about ourselves, right? Like, know thyself as being that way, a core piece of wisdom that is just timeless. And so looking at our intersectionality helps us to know ourselves even better, and it also helps us to shape who we want to be. Right?

There's some things that like value systems that we've adopted just because we've been taught that, like growing up in the United States, individualism is such a big value, and we're taught that through the way that classrooms are structured, the way that the workplace is structured, through the way that, like media says like, this is how you succeed. You know you do it on your own, or you, quote, unquote, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, like being a value, and that is just wrong in so many ways, and it's destructive in so many ways. And even with black women, like the ways that we have internalized, to take on so many things, to be the superhero, you know, in our lives, or to have black girl magic, quote, unquote, that becomes very weighty. And oftentimes we can get sick because of it right, because of the stress, the weight of that right. And so looking at our intersectionality can help us to see ourselves more clearly. Can help us to see society more clearly. Help us to be more intentional in our own lives, as well as in our leadership.

Analiza: There is so much juiciness as to what you shared Dominica, and I'm trying to summarize the points that I'm taking away from myself when I think about the power of intersectionality to become a change maker. And first, it's too real. Realize that we have different experiences, even in the same context, different experiences based on our identity, and so that based on sexuality, gender, race, age, all of these things include that's just a name of you. We will show up in a situation and experience it differently. So that's the first reason why intersectionality is important.

Second, it's know thyself, and that there's so much power to parts of identities that sometimes don't get the attention that it deserves. For you, your beautiful Haitian background, for me, being Filipina, I know that I not just denied that part of me, that cultural part of me, that I was embarrassed because I didn't realize that. One, I didn't know much about it. And second, that it could be a source of power and strength. And like you, I'm very proud of where I come from, and that being Filipina is definitely part of my identity.

And the third is that if we don't look at why there are stereotypes, and that those don't have to be how we define ourselves based on society, as a Filipina, as a woman, that I can't lead, that I'm not athletic, I guess I'm good at math, that actually I can redefine for myself. Yes, actually I can lead. I am strong, and yes, I'm also good at math. These are all true, and so I love so much that intersectionality allows us to get to know ourselves better, allows us to choose who we want to be, and that does help us to become the change. Because where is that taught? Right? You and I both went to great universities. You have a doctorate. I mean, where was it taught that we could source power, not just from tools and knowledge and more papers, but actually from ourselves.

So I love it so much that we have this quote. I want to share it because it's so powerful, as I was learning about you and your organization by Lao Tzu, and I'm going to read it here and get your thoughts on it. Dominica, this quote by Lao Tzu that says, go to the people, live with them. Love them, learn from them, work with them. Start with what they have, build them what they know. And in the end, when the work is done, the people will rejoice, and they will say, we have done it ourselves. Dominica, I want you to talk about, I mean, this is kind of one of the lead quotes on your website, and reflect on for you why that quote has significance, and particularly for women of color, why that has significance.

Dominica: Yeah. Oh, you are. You are good at this, the way that you were just able to pick the fruit from that and reflect it back, is amazing. So that quote for us, to me, reminds us of the power and brilliance that is within each of us, because we're taught in this country to go outside of ourselves. You need to get this product, you need to pay money for this service. You need to do this like everything, even the way that schools are taught, the teacher has all the knowledge, the students don't have any knowledge. They're just ingesting all the knowledge from the teacher, right? And so many different aspects of society tell us we don't have the answer inside of us. We don't have the thing we need inside of us. That's just not true. It's just a lie. It's just a lie.

There's we are born with so much wisdom and beauty and brilliance and potential flowing through us, and a lot of times, it's about having the reminders around us and having the conditions around us to remind us that we do contain so many different strengths and gifts, right, and having conditions around us that allow us and give us opportunity to bring that out and to be that right? And so anybody from like a one on one conversation or one on one interaction, from an organization coming to service a community, from the leadership of the city or of the state or the country, recognizing that people have power and people have talent, and y'all don't have to come in and give people the answer. It's really about like, how do we create the conditions for people to step into their potential, to step into their answer?

And I used to be a therapist and provided one on one therapy for for children, adults, couples therapy, family therapy, and just saw some amazing transformations, like the 16 year old coming into my office depressed, very low self esteem, wanting to commit suicide, and at the end of our relationship, saying he loves himself, and even like physically, like looking different, a couple on the brink of divorce coming in at the end of our relationship, they're sending me a card. You helped us fall in love again. And so I'm not a miracle worker, you know? I simply came with the philosophy that they have the answer in themselves, and we're going. And together, dig that answer out and apply it to their lives. And it works so many times, and that's what we do in community, to do it in organizations and communities and bring that wisdom of Lao Tzu to the situation, so that we can reflect their power. We can reflect on their brilliance. We can reflect their wisdom and help to manifest it.

Analiza: Dominica, before we go to lightning round, I want to ask you this question of conditions, because people listening might say, Well, that sounds great. I see I have the power of the light. It's within me. Or you might read that Maryland Williamson quote that's just so powerful. The light is within us. And I'm curious, Dominica, when you think of conditions for women of color, a daily practice, if you have any suggestions for how do you create the conditions within ourselves, to remind us that we can source already the power within what suggestions would you give us to say these practices could help remind you, as all societies, telling us all the things and movies and media those magazines Tiktok is telling us all the things come back to these reminders to source from within. What would you share there?

Dominica: Yeah, there's a lot of self care tips out there now, and one of them is around affirmations, right? Like, what's the language that you're using the talk to yourself. So that's one of course, that's readily, readily accessible, is the affirmation, like, I am brilliant, I am love, you know, I am worthy like and then another is to look yourself in the eyes every day, like, start the day, look in the mirror, look at yourself in the eyes and just be with yourself, right? And not not like some 32nd thing, like, spend a few minutes just like looking into your own eyes, looking into yourself, like getting connected with yourself. Yeah, it reminds us that we are here, we are real, we are human, and we can be there for ourselves too throughout all this.

And then another is journaling. It's so powerful to journal because so much comes out when we're writing our thoughts that wouldn't come out otherwise. You know, I've had answers to long time questions, powerful questions that I asked myself, like the answers came through journaling me, just asking, Spirit, by self, by higher self, whatever it is, like me asking the questions on paper, and then the answer coming to it to through me, coming through me on the page, and seeing that, you know, the definition and path to healing came through that way. Even questions I had about my own marriage came through that way. And so journaling can be a really powerful tool to show that we are conduits for brilliance and allowing that to come out. And we see, see evidence of that on paper.

Analiza: Oh, my goodness, I want to name that. There's a first deciding who you are, who are we? Those affirmations. Second is the practice of knowing that we can look at ourselves and see our beauty, because how often do we do that? And third is the writing, ask the question and get the answer. And that all of these practices can be daily practices, sight, with the sound, with the touch, all of it so beautiful. Dominica, I'm going to incorporate the mirror.

One is going to be the challenge. I think I'm like, what? How often do I actually do that? There's this, you know, whatever, 90 seconds, two minutes, to fall in love. And it's supportive. It's looking at your partner and just staring at them. It's the most awkward thing. I don't know about it, but I'm in love with my partner, so perhaps it works. But I'm both, like, excited, but also a little nervous to do it. But I thank you for the challenge. It's a beautiful practice. I appreciate it. Dominica. Are you ready for lightning round? Chocolate or vanilla?

Dominica: Chocolate

Analiza: Climb a mountain or jump from a plane?

Dominica: Climb a mountain.

Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Dominica: Yes.

Analiza: How would you rate your karaoke skills on a scale of one to ten,ten being Mariah Carey?

Dominica: Zero.

Analiza: What's a recent book you read ?

Dominica: Right now, I'm listening to Rest is Resistance by Trisha Hersey.

Analiza: What is your favorite way to practice self care?

Dominica: Yoga.

Analiza: What's a good professional development you've done?

Dominica: Fresh Academy, Fresh Speakers Academy, it's a thought leadership program that I recently completed. Awesome.

Analiza: What's your definition of a Boss Mama?

Dominica: A Boss Mama? Oh, my goodness, a leader in and outside the home. What advice would you give your younger self, be fearless and step into love.

Analiza: Where can we find you? Like LinkedIn, anywhere else?

Dominica: Yeah. LinkedIn, becomes website. It becomescenter.org the website for the book is becoming changemakers.com and my email is Dmcbride@becomecenter.org

Analiza: Great. And then last question is, do you have a final ask recommendation, or any parting thoughts to share,

Dominica: Buy the book, read the book. Journey with other women in reading the book. We're helping with book clubs, the sisterhood circles. Book Talks recently facilitated an amazing session with a book club, a National Book Club, and it was really powerful. People shared in ways that they hadn't shared before, vulnerable with each other in ways that they hadn't been before, and it was very unifying and touching. So if you're interested in taking on the book for your book club or forming a sisterhood circle, reach out .

Analiza: Beautiful, thank you so much. Dominica for all these beautiful stories and wisdom. I really appreciate you.

Dominica: Oh, thank you. Thank you. You have so much wisdom flowing through you and such amazing talent.

Analiza: Thank you so much for carving out time to hear today's podcast, three things before you go. First, if you found it helpful, please leave a five star review. Second, you can get a free chapter of my book, The Myths of Success: A Woman of Color’s Guide to Leadership at analizawolf.com/freechapter. And lastly, if you're interested in executive coaching, please reach out to me at analiza@analizawolf.com. Thank you so very much.