Analiza: Analiza 0:16 Welcome to the Women of Color Rise Podcast. I'm Analiza Quiroz Wolf, proud Filipino American executive leadership coach, and former CEO of a nonprofit and Captain in the US Air Force, and also the author of The Myths of Success: A Woman of Color's Guide to Leadership. It's based on the lessons learned of many women of color leaders, including those on this podcast.

We talk with successful CEOs and C suite women leaders of color, and learn about their leadership journeys. I'm on a mission to support having more diverse leaders at the table. If you're a woman or woman of color who wants a seat at that table, you're in the right place. Now let's get into today's show.

I'm excited to be with DeNora Getachew. Today, she is the CEO of Dosomething.org. It's a national hub for Youth Activism. It's about fueling young people to change the world. Donora started her career as a legislative attorney at the New York City Council, advancing campaign financing, ethics, lobbying and Government Reform, and then later she became the New York Executive Director of Generation Citizens. It's also a national nonprofit focusing on how civics education is taught in our country's secondary schools. DeNora is also a mother, and she is an alumnus of John Jay College of Criminal Justice, and then Fordham University, School of Law. DeNora, it is exciting to have you here and talk about this career. Thank you so much for joining us.

DeNora: So excited to be here. Analiza, thank you for having me.

Analiza: So DeNora, I want to talk about your identity and how that shaped the arc. Did you always know that you would be doing civics education and all this reform as well as leading an organization like do something that org?

DeNora: Such a great question. And you know, I would say to your listeners that the journey doesn't necessarily have to be one that's linear. So I cut my teeth actually, and my story begins with myself as a young activist fighting for my own educational equity as a young pregnant teen at a high school in Harlem, New York, where I was told either that my pregnancy was contagious and in the water or a distraction to the entire school community, and it was them that I realized the importance of being able to understand how to advocate for oneself. And you know, over the course of my high school, college and law school careers, really honed in on being able to use all the tools in my own toolbox to affect change on behalf of society, but really build one that's more inclusive and accessible, that centers the voices of those who've historically been marginalized and those from communities that look like the one that I grew up in.

And so I didn't know exactly that it would land me as the fit CEO in our 31 year history of Dosomething, but I knew that could be a part of the journey, and I would say specific, to do something, ironically, do something. And I were on a parallel trajectory for the better part of five years of my career, where, like, we were doing work adjacent to each other, and I always saw it as this exciting, dynamic, kind of splashy organization that could sit at the intersection of youth and pop culture and civic engagement and really help young people find their voice. And so when the opportunity presented itself for me to be come on board a CEO back in 2020 and then into early 2021 I jumped at the opportunity, because I felt like there was such a powerful brand there that I could leverage to really affect change on behalf of Gen Z and Gen alpha as they come of age in this incredibly turbulent time, but one that feels, I would say, somewhat optimistic and hopeful, as as dark as it may feel in this moment.

Analiza: I mean, it does feel dark. DeNora, I mean, so it gives me hope that you're doing this work, and particularly with your story, beginning with your own advocacy, and seeing that you could have a voice, you could impact change. I want to come back to that, because speaking as a woman of color, my own identity, having grown up hearing from family, from school, from society to just follow the rules, to be quiet and be a good girl, and yet you with being pregnant. I mean, I'm hearing these messages. You found a way to advocate. You found a way your own voice and your own source, and I imagine that's been really powerful in your career. I want to come back to that, though, because we want to with your work, you help to lift up our youth that they can be activists and speak up, and you yourself built that skill, and I'm not sure there wasn't do something.org back then to help teach you these skills or give you these outlets. And so can you talk to us like the moments or the messages, or how did you find that like strengthen yourself that said, Speak up, advocate.

DeNora: It's a great thing. Great, great point. And I appreciate the compliment that no good leader would say that they did all these things by themselves. So I'll have to give it a bunch of shout outs in response to this question. But two, doing something actually existed when I was in high school. Dosomething with so now for your listeners, they can do some of the math, right? We were founded in 1993 and I was a freshman in high school in 1993 and so Dosomething, though I wasn't aware of it at the time, was exactly the type of organization that I would have wanted to be a part of and really help be a leader within.

And so for me, I think a lot of my own, I want to call it grit, determination, strength came from those around me, including my own mother, who could have responded very differently when I said to her that I was going to make a choice to have a baby at a young age, and instead said to me, how can I support you? How can I be a part of this journey? And you have to do the work, right? So my mother, African American woman, born in Alabama, but raised here in New York, I was very clear about the legacy of slavery, how that impacted us as black people, and what it meant to be responsible for your own destiny. And so, you know, she was very clear with me that she would help in any way that she could to help me be successful, but that I couldn't make excuses and I couldn't do it because I made a choice, and so first and foremost, I always give the credit to her for being such a wonderful mother and grandmother to all of her grandchildren.

I have three children myself, right? My son, who's now a full-fledged, I call him a full fledged adult, and then two younger daughters who are pre teen and teenage girls. But I could not have done any of those things, even if I could find all the grit and determination within myself, it was just also the logistical side of like, how do you raise a child while finishing high school, while having to work to support yourself and this child? And so first and foremost, the credit goes to her.

And then for me, I often describe myself as a person who, well, online I say I'm the democracy ninja. So right, I've dedicated my entire life and my career, albeit in an on what seems like a nonlinear fashion, to really using all the tools I can find and tools I borrow from others to be able to make our society more equitable, more just, more our elections, more free and fair, and to make sure we're centering the voices of those who haven't historically been a part of the conversation. Because I believe that we can accomplish a more perfect union. And for my job, my own personal mission statement is committed to that. And so for me, it's more about them. In the moment where I think we're struggling, what can I do personally to contribute to that, to dig deep, to find ways to add value to the movement that is creating that more perfect union?

And I am, as you and I were talking about before we came on live, I'm a person who's really good in the sprint, and so when I can see that there's a moment that requires some level of extra grit and determination, if there's something that I can do to contribute to that, and I know that it's time bound, if you will, it's even better, right? So if I can sprint to a mile or two, that's how I can usually sustain myself, versus the kind of consistent pace of sprinting. So I think it's important also for me as a leader, just to be clear about that and that that's kind of my own operating ethos, if you will.

Analiza: So I'm hearing three things. One is, we can't do it alone. Your mother gave you a lot of strength and support, and also held you accountable to do the work.

Two, having a strong personal mission, I heard that you wanted to help make sure that we all have a voice, and particularly lift up those marginalized voices.

And three, that you are a sprinter, that when there is time bound destination, you've got that, and then you will take care and rest. So I hear those three things.

What about speaking up? Because there's risk, right? DeNora, we don't want to be Pollyanna, we don't want to be short shrift. That there's a risk in speaking up. There's a risk to not just ourselves, often the people we're surrounded with, especially when we say a hard thing, and whether you're youth or you're in the workplace, we do need to speak up, because that's how change happens. That's why having you in this role is really powerful. And I'm curious, can you talk about risk and talk about how you've mitigated risk in your career by speaking up, and actually, how you've maybe even lost a few you really have risked hard stuff?

DeNora: Yeah. I mean, I think that's when the conviction comes in and having that second point you pointed to, which is your own personal mission statement, like, what are the things you're willing to risk it for? And I think what concerns me most about the time that we live in is that I'm not actually sure everything feels transactional and everything feels like it is fungible. And so there's a lot that you can risk and quotation marks for without actually having done the work, because we live in a society.

And let me just say this, culturally, I believe in the power of technology and social media to be able to accelerate movements and to scale what's already happening, but it also has created some level, and I don't talk about this as much as I used to, but some level of selectivism. So we all just think we like, risk it by, like, putting a heart or by liking something. It's like, Well, that wasn't risk like, let's think about what it meant to risk it during the Civil Rights Movement, people risk actual beating and posings and going to jail. And how often do we, not just me or anyone else in this moment, risk it for that right? And what I think is powerful about the time we're living in is that we're seeing some level of civic resurgence in that regard, that there are things. There are too many things, is my honest answer, Analiza, that we should be risking it for. Right? And that I don't know if all of us have the courage of our convictions to be willing to risk it, because we're nervous that people aren't going to be there with us, right? So that movement piece to your first point, we don't do it alone.

We are in a society now where we have so much ability to do things at scale together, and yet, I don't know that we all do that, and we do it with intentionality. So that ability to feel like you can risk something doesn't feel as urgent or as necessary or proximate maybe as it may have felt for prior generations. And so for me, that my own personal mission statement, back to your question, is what anchors me and what I'm willing to risk it for, right? I'm also willing to risk it for or take a limb from my family and the people who I believe not only would do the same for me, but are the ones who will inherit the society we live in. And if I don't think that the society we currently are living in is going to help us achieve that more perfect union, then I'm going to risk it for that, if you will.

Analiza: Okay, DeNora, because that was so powerful, I want to take these inspirational words and actually get concrete with it, because there's real action, right? And because I like, I liked it. I was like, I'm like, okay, obviously I'm not risking. I have risks in my career. I've gotten fired over things I'm taking risks for. I want to talk about your expertise, because you have such like you're fighting for democracy, right? And I want to get concrete because I hear you, we're not taking risks and liking things is not the risk. If you're a woman of color and you know either earlier to speak to like our demographic, like, here's concrete things in taking real risk. And I get we're all unique, but if you can get like, here's a concrete example of something that you've seen or you encourage us to do, especially as an election year. I mean, what? What are things you're thinking about as concrete action steps to take risk, but also do it in solidarity? Could you offer an example?

DeNora: Great question. I think that's personal, and I'm not trying to be speaking platitudes, but the reality is, the risk comes in. What are you turning up for? What do you want your own legacy to be? And I think we live in a moment again, because it's so accessible to like and hug things on the internet that we like. We think we've committed and we're risking it for all of these things we did online, but we didn't. And so what my clarion call is to your listeners is like, pick one thing that you're willing to risk it for. Like, if you had to go all the way and you'd put all of your time, talent and treasure into one thing, what would that thing be, and then push your chips into the center of the table? I don't play poker, but I feel like that's a metaphor that people like, you know, understand, and I'm not here to encourage anyone to, like, gamble in any way or engage in behavior like that, if it's not for them, but I think that notion of, like, what are you willing to take the shot for? Right? And I don't know that all of us have clarity around that, right?

I think I look at it and it's because we're so intersectional as my honest answer, I don't even write like, I think in a pre covid world, we may not have felt as intersectional as we feel now, but think about the identities that we all bring to the table. So I'm a black woman, I'm a mother, I'm a daughter, I'm a sister, I'm a leader, you know, I'm someone who believes in choice, right? Like, I bring all of these identities to perspective, to bear when push comes to shove. Which one of those? None of us won't be the ones to say, like that one, that identity Trumps, right? I think back to 2008 and the question, like, of not to be partisan political, but just even thinking about like, am I a black woman who's voting for a black man as president? Am I a Woman voting for a woman as president? Right? It became like, but I want all of those things, right? And so we live in a world now where everyone, because we're so intersectional and multifaceted, which is a good thing we risk. We don't want to risk any of those intersectionalities when we think about how we show up and do good in the world, and I think that might be something you can both carry all of those identities and leverage them more intentionally for good, if that makes sense.

Analiza: Yeah, I'm hearing you say it's beautiful to have intersectionality, because that's actually ways we can be serious right at the same time, it kind of gives us an easy way out to say, well, then I'm all about everything. I don't want to offend anyone, and therefore not really go in and I imagine it for resources. We're talking about money, right? Money and putting ourselves out there for real. Here's what I stand for, which will mean alienating some people. And as women, we to not be liked is a thing right to not to say I'm for this, which means I'm not for that. It is sometimes counter to what we want to do, which is like everybody belongs, let's hold hands, let's all feel like we're one. So I want to ask you about sprinting. I don't know if you ran track when you were a kid. You did okay, what event did you do?

DeNora: I ran a lot of events. I was not the fastest, but I was, I have, I liked running, and I got, I honed that skill more towards distance running having run a marathon when I got a little bit older. Because the sprinting was not always literally good for me, but metaphorically, I'm good at it in the work context.

Analiza: I love that. So both the physical when you were young, and then now it's a real practice. Yeah, so I want to talk about it because it's interesting. Seems to be time bound. You said that explicitly. I do this work, but it's time bound. But the work to Nora, like you're not solving democracy, right in six months. Here's 2024 I got this. 2025 is going to be relaxing here, like probably not. So can you get concrete with that too? What does it mean to sprint? What does it mean to not sprint, because you can't be sprinting around the track, right? You gotta pass the baton at some point. Do you pass it? Do you lay down? Like, can you give us a season to bring us the Year in the Life? Or however you want to bring us to like, here's what it looks like, concretely, for sprint, and then not sprint.

DeNora: It's a great question. I think the sprint, to me, is about, what can we accomplish in this time bound amount of time that is going to be a measurable kind of step forward towards a larger goal. So in this moment, I'll give an example from work. I'm sprinting towards the general election, right? And I'm thinking, even within that longer time period. What do I need to accomplish? What do I need to work with my team? Right?

Because that's the passing the baton to accomplish between now and November 5 that sets us up for success, but also adds value to this larger ecosystem as it relates to the 2024, election cycle. And so one of those sprints is going to be, what do we do to something to help register voters from now until the end of the school year? Right? And we think about how we get to young people in classrooms all around classrooms all around the country. College campuses are now, you know, shutting down, but how do we plant the seed with college students before they leave? About the importance of them registering young people to vote?

And then there's a little bit more of a quiet phase during the summer where we're just building the next phase, right towards a sprint that launches after Labor Day. And we sprint from Labor Day until November 5. And so I do think about it in terms of like a campaign or a lap or two that we need to take in order to get to a big goal, right? And for us, that big goal is, how do we register 100,000 new voters between now and Election Day, and get them to turn out to vote and make that commitment?

And then the question becomes, what do we do after that? It's not going to feel like a sprint necessarily, right, but it's the next leg of the campaign that might be a little bit more of a walk or a job, but sprints, to me, are about this. How can you have a measurable impact or a demonstrable impact in a short amount of time in service of this larger goal, right? And your point being, democracy, kind of the more perfect union is the medical right? And there are many people who are part of that. And the baton might get passed directly to people on my team, might get passed to the side, to someone on at another organization might get passed to people I don't even know, because they see what we're doing and they want to kind of join the race with us, right? And they're like, get me and tag me and coach. And so I think there is this kind of concentric circle version of the sprints, right, that we have to be mindful of and create space for. Was that illustrative enough?

Analiza: Oh yes, I'm hearing a clear, time bound goal that we can accomplish that's measurable. I'm also hearing passing the baton and developing others, because it's not like you and you stop. The whole thing stops. There are other people to support the mission. Can you talk about DeNora, your practice of rest? What does that look like? So you're going to sprint to hoard 100,000 and then do you have what booked or what set up for you to not be sprinting to the next thing?

DeNora: So my version of rest sometimes happens even within the sprint, right? So, like, sometimes there's a mini sprint within the day or week, and then at the end of that period, when we're pushing towards a big goal, it could be like, how do we raise the money to get to that 100,000 new voter registrants. Goal. In case there are any funders listening, please call me if you have some money you want to give us. We need to raise money to help save our democracy. Thank you. And the rest might come at the end of a long work week, right? Like this week, I'm really excited because today, you know, as a work recording, I had just finished my Q2 board meeting, and so there was a sprint to get to that right. And like, what did it mean to have our audit completed and make sure that we can present our financials to our board and have them improve our audit.

And the sprint is like, at the end of this week, I'm taking the day off. So on Friday, I'm like, we're starting Memorial Day weekend. Somehow, I don't know how we got to Memorial Day weekend so quickly this year, but it is, and we have summer Friday, so it's our first summer Friday. And I was like, I'm going to take that half day off and I'm going to spend time with my daughters, and that version of the sprint means I'm going to do something fun. You know, taking the rest from that sprint means I'm having some fun with my kids for the long weekend.

And so I think it's always important to know that and carve out the space so people have to do their own version of self care. I can't. I would never want to dictate to your listeners or and viewers what they should do for their own version of self care. But for me, I want to sit outside in the park. I want to play, you know, with my kids. I want to read a book. And so there's a book sitting on my bedside table, and it's ready for me to open it. And that's what I'm looking forward to. If it's warm enough, I want to be near water, right? And summer is my favorite season, even though I was born, I guess I was born at the tail end of summer, and I'm looking forward to the joy that comes along with that work. And so that's what I do.

At the end of those sprints, I often find that I'm sprinting towards something, right? So yes, it's both a goal, but it often is a rest. And so even if it's like a staycation or an actual vacation, I get to unplug for a bit. And so that keeps me fired up and fueled. I think you know what I would also say is a version of that self. There is, because sometimes when you're in the sprint, it can feel intense to those around you who are not a part of your sprint, right is being clear about where you are and that when the light at the end of the tunnel is coming, so that you don't kind of disrupt other people's lives along the way, but also don't, don't break anything, if you will, along the way. And so I'm often saying to my family, I'm in the sprint right now, like Tuesday's coming up, I have this board meeting, and then after that, I'm going to reset. And I think that level of that level of transparency also helps people realize what you're doing and why you're doing it.

Analiza: DeNora, I hear you saying that there's big sprints, there's also mini sprints. There's sprints for months, there's sprints for the day, there's a sprint, and even a mini sprint in a day. And the communication with that allows for people to feel like, okay, I understand your world, and I can see that there's a light at the end of the tunnel. And I'm wondering about dinner for people you see on your team who don't operate the way you do, and see everything as a sprint, like there's just sprinting right like at dinner, I can't not sprint after the board meeting. I've got this other presentation, and I've got this other fundraising deck, and I've got this other thing and this other thing, and you and I have seen this right with people we care about. How do you tell them? Because your method works so well for you. Help people see that there's value in the rest. What do you tell them?

DeNora: So I just you know embodied this before this call. Fortunately for me, I had two meetings that were going to go right back to back with my board meeting. And I don't even know how I let that happen in my calendar, but it did. And then those meetings were canceled. And I said to my colleague, let's go outside for a walk. Let's go get a coffee. It's 80 degrees in New York City in May, like we don't have to sit in here. And so yes, there could be 10 other things we should be doing. I will. I say this to myself, and I say it to my colleague, I'm going to work hard when it's time. To work on. Time to work hard, so that's the sprint, and then when it's going to when it's time to have fun, I'm going to be the first one having fun, right? Like, and I probably will be the last one too. And I try to model that so that, yes, that doesn't mean that's work is not purposeful, and I don't need to meet deadlines. But it's also important to know, whatever your version is of the fun, or the rest between the sprints, that you actually take time for it. And so I think as a leader, it's just important to embody that and to give people grace to say, no, no, no, I'm actually not going to be sprinting right now. So I'm going to get back to those emails. But after I take a break.

Analiza: So beautiful, I mean, we're working on you're fighting for democracy. You're trying to bring people along. We can't do that in one big hall. We need to think of a marathon in terms of a series of sprints. And to do that, being respectful that not everybody's going to be sprinting with you at the same pace, we can communicate and hopefully model there's beauty in taking a Gatorade break, right with our running with that, DeNora, would you be up for lightning round questions?

DeNora: All right, I'm ready. Let me settle in. What are you going to talk about? Lightning round.

Analiza: Chocolate or vanilla?

DeNora: Vanilla.

Analiza: Cooking or takeout?

DeNora: Cooking.

Analiza: Climb a mountain or jump from a plane?

DeNora: Jump from a plane.

Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

DeNora: No.

Analiza: How would you rate your karaoke skills on a scale of one to ten, ten being Mariah Carrey?

DeNora: I'm sorry, this is really important. I want to ask you this question. I'm right here for the lightning round. But is it about the caliber of my singing or my commitment to singing all the things? Okay? 10 100. I love karaoke. I'm all of 10. I dance, I dance, I do everything to go with it. My team. I have a colleague who's, like, sitting over there. She and I keep trying to get us to organize a karaoke get together for the team. And she's like, not into karaoke at the level that I am. So she keeps saying, like, that's further down on the list, but I'm all in for karaoke. I have some great songs and everything.

Analiza: What's a recent book you read?

DeNora 23:39 Oh, so I started a challenge this year where I was going to read a book a month. I'm behind in May, so I gotta catch up. That's what this weekend's about. So I can slide in safely at the end of May. But I most What did I most recently read? I most recently read, oh my gosh, I just read this book and I gave it to a colleague, even, oh my gosh, the personal librarian, about the story of JP Morgan's librarian and how she was an African American woman, historical fiction. African American woman passing for white, because she knew that that was the only way that she could be in a role like that and achieve and this is based on a true story. It's like, I think they're going to be opening an exhibit soon at the JP Morgan library. Amazing. Highly recommend this New York Times bestseller.

Analiza: Sounds like a movie. What's your favorite way to practice self care?

DeNora: Oh, this is a hard one. It just depends on the season. It's my honest answer. Analiza like this one coming that spring, summer season, I need to be near water. My way to practice self care is to sit by a pool, by Beach, by a lake, anywhere there's water, and just call myself with a book. If it's winter, I want to be sitting by a fire and I want to be on a mountain snowboarding, so I won't necessarily hike the mountain, but like, take the chair, lift up, come down. It is that's kind of like jumping out of the plane.

Analiza: What's a good professional development you've done?

DeNora: Oh my gosh. So Dosomething as a digital power platform, right? And so we engage young people. Online to figure out how they can go on their own journey from civically curious to civically committed. And last year, I participated in a leaders in tech intensive retreat for four days. And one I was like, I'm not a tech leader. And I was like, well, you run a nonprofit that's powered by tech, so I'm kind of a tech leader, right? And had to be incredibly vulnerable to think it was like a dozen, maybe a little bit more than a dozen perfect strangers, some of whom were way more leaders in tech than me.

And so the vulnerability around, you know, I'm a person who, one of my chief strengths is input, so I have to I like knowing things, and I felt like fish out of water that I didn't know a lot of the things that others knew on the kind of spectrum of tech knowledge, but also that the whole intensive is around that vulnerability of how to understand what are the leadership challenges you're facing, and how to grapple with and face those. And it's just that I left feeling terrified, is the honest answer, and then I came home feeling so clear and validated about who I am as a leader, and being able to step solidly back into that at a pivotal moment for myself in my leadership, but do something nice.

Analiza: What's your definition of a Boss Mama?

DeNora: Oh, I mean, it probably differs from my daughter's definition of a boss mama, but I would say, you know, Boss Mama to me means someone want to embody being loving, nurturing, but also being clear and supportive with my daughter is that I am challenging them to be their best selves, but also 100% there to help them get there right? And there's a new song on cowboy Carter called protector, and that, to me, is like the embodiment of, like, how I feel as a boss mama, that I'm like, going to be your protector, but I'm also going to push you to to do the things that you want to do, and to step outside your comfort zone.

Analiza: Nice. What advice would you give your younger self?

DeNora: Don't be afraid to make the choices. I remember standing in a Planned Parenthood and being terrified, like, am I actually going to become a mother? Am I prepared to become a mother? And I did. I made the choice, but the whole time I was like, Is this what I'm supposed to be doing? And yeah, on the other side of it, who knew that just a girl from the Bronx, as I like to say, could be sitting in this seat, in this moment, in this role.

Analiza: And then where can we find you, like LinkedIn, anywhere else?

DeNora: LinkedIn, on Instagram. @democracyninja. Those are the two platforms where I primarily engage online and then dosomething.org. The hub for youth centered activism.

Analiza: Last question, do you have a final ask recommendation or parting thoughts to share?

DeNora: We as women, and especially women who are doing these very important roles, and as women of color, who often feel like we take on more responsibility of our own doing, but also of society's expectations of us don't often pause after the sprint or after the victory to take the victory lap. And so I have actually really started practicing that and saying it out loud. For some reason we think like, you just conquered the earth, and then you gotta turn it back on and conquer the Earth again. And it's like, or what I'm going to encourage all of the women of color leaders who are listening to this, and those who they can expand and populate and germinate with, take the victory lap. Like, if it's time for a ticker tape parade, like, start the parade in your honor, get people to join you, but take the lap before you feel like you gotta, like, climb to the next summit. I've really been on a quest for this with women of color, because we just go, I did that awesome thing, and before they could even complete the twirl, they're like, Okay, what am I gonna do next? And it's like, no, you gotta finish the tutorial. So that's my advice.

Analiza: Oh so good. Take the victory lap. Damn. We work so hard. Take a moment, take a moment and actually get on that stage and start around. Look at like super inspired

DeNora: Twirl just once.

Analiza: DeNora, such a pleasure. Thank you so much for the stories and advice and your own inspiration of fighting for democracy. I really appreciate you.

DeNora: Thank you for the opportunity. It was so great to be here, and I look forward to listening in and hearing others share their story and being a part of this network of women of color who are rising.

Analiza: Thank you so much for carving out time to hear today's podcast, three things before you go. First, if you found it helpful, please leave a five star review. Second, you can get a free chapter of my book, The Myths of Success: A Woman of Color’s Guide to Leadership at analizawolf.com/freechapter. And lastly, if you're interested in executive coaching, please reach out to me at analiza@analizawolf.com. Thank you so very much.