Analiza: Welcome to the Women of Color Rise Podcast. I'm Analiza Quiroz Wolf, proud Filipino American executive leadership coach, and former CEO of a nonprofit and Captain in the US Air Force, and also the author of The Myths of Success: A Woman of Color's Guide to Leadership. It's based on the lessons learned of many women of color leaders, including those on this podcast.

We talk with successful CEOs and C suite women leaders of color, and learn about their leadership journeys. I'm on a mission to support having more diverse leaders at the table. If you're a woman or woman of color who wants a seat at that table, you're in the right place. Now let's get into today's show.

I'm thrilled to be here with Zee Clarke today. She is an expert on breath work and resilience. She's the author of the groundbreaking book Black People Breathe. She's a Harvard MBA that went from leading teams at Fortune 500 companies to teaching powerful tools, because she's now trained in India to improve our mental health and well being in the workplace. It's companies like Google, Visa, AMC Networks that have involved or program called breath work at work, and it supports the entire workforce in reducing stress, boosting productivity and prioritizing self care. She's got this program black at work that focused on helping people of color manage the chronic stress and professional development challenges that result from microaggressions and systemic racism. See, I'm so so excited to have you here. Thank you for joining us.

Zee: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here with you.

Analiza: Zee, you and I share in one of our identities of being Filipina, and I want to start there. And first, have you share. How do you identify?

Zee: I made up a word because I am of a mixed background. So my mother was born in the Philippines. My father is of Jamaican descent and born in Panama. So here's my word, Blasian, Tino, Black, Asian and Latino are really Latina, Blaisantina, that, and I usually checked all the boxes, or the mixed box.

Analiza: You really do have all the amazing cultural identities, which is a source of strength. So let's make sure we're clear there. See, can you tell me? Okay, so you have this really, like a successful arc. And I would love for you to also insert your Juilliard possibility. And I'd love to hear how this identity of yours shapes your career path, and particularly where you are today?

Zee: Well, I'll say, and you can relate to this, that when your parents are immigrants, they come to this country with the American dream. And the American dream is that anything is possible, as long as you work hard. And so I'll say that when I was growing up, my parents had extremely high standards of achievement for me, and then that said socially, I kind of felt othered all the time, especially as somebody from a mixed background, so I often felt like I was not accepted by a lot of different communities, because I wasn't 100% whatever everybody else was. And so for me, that was my work ethic, that was the fire that led me to work super, super hard at everything that I did. And, you know, in my household, and this is very similar to folks whose parents are so demanding, you get a 98% and your parents say, What happened to the other 2%? Why didn't you do better? And so that is like a constant drive to do better, do better, do better to achieve and always to go for the best, right? And so with that, said, for college.

Oh, you mentioned Juilliard. I play the violin. I played violin since I was five, and I got into Juilliard for college, and I chose not to go because I didn't believe in myself enough. I didn't think I could make a living. And I grew up in a low income environment where money stress was ever present, and I didn't want that in my adult life, so instead, I went to Harvard for undergrad. I took very conservative paths and choices in terms of my career. Started my career, I studied economics, started my career in financial services, Citi, Amex. I went back to Harvard for Business School.

After that, I was a management consultant at Bain, and then I worked in the tech industry, because I was in Silicon Valley, and so I worked at big companies like Yahoo, I worked at smaller startups, everything in between. And during all of that time, I was usually the only, often in tech, the only woman in the room as a black woman, the only black person, black woman on the team, on the floor. Sometimes. In the building. And so that work ethic came in, you know, very handy, because a lot of people would doubt me. A lot of people would say things that questioned my competence. You know, an example is, hey, are you the new diversity hire? Right? And so if people are making comments that assume that I got to where I was just because of what I looked like, and not because of my qualifications. That led me to work super, super hard, which ultimately led to burnout, and that burnout is how I do the work that I do today, because I actually was forced to push pause by my doctors who said, something's got to change with your stress levels.

And that's when I went to India. That's when I studied breath work and yoga and meditation and became a sound healer with Tibetan singing bowls, these tools that helped me to feel better than I had ever felt in my whole life. I didn't even realize my shoulders were up to my ears ever since third grade, the first day of school at this fancy, rich, predominantly white private school, where I felt poor and not good enough, right? And also didn't look like everybody else. And that's why I do the work that I do today, because these tools that I learned changed my life, and I hope that they are changing those that I teach today in the corporate environment.

Analiza: Zee, the arc of your life and career, and how, as much as our parents love us, they inflicted they imbibed us in this. Let's work hard, but at all costs, like whatever I need to do, and it doesn't matter what I believe about myself, how I'm treating my body, what's tapping to my shoulders, and really, I mean, what's happening inside that we're we're hurting ourselves, and we're getting sick, and sometimes those slams in the door, the door in our face that says you you must change like, it's the pathway to live, like to survive, and actually, in your case, just like thrive.

And I love that you're sharing these practices, not just for yourself, but you're sharing them with organizations, with people of color, with anyone who is interested in having a different path. It's beautiful. Thank you. Yeah. Zee, can you talk about this myth? Right? So we hear that to be successful means to sacrifice at all costs, right? And so I want to go on the counter side of it, because that's honestly what I believed as well. Like, if I want to be successful, I've got to give it my all, and at any cost, pay the price, which means not just for me, but my children, my family, my just entire life. And so this other narrative, right that we want to talk about here is that you can be successful and you don't have to sacrifice. And so I'm curious, what is your philosophy of it? Can we have it all like? What does that mean for you?

Zee: You know, my upbringing is aligned with yours, in terms of being brought up, that to be successful, you sacrifice everything at all cost, by any means necessary. And so I'll say for me that showed up in two ways that I now think differently about. One is in terms of how I show up and who I am when I am in the workplace. So there's a term called code switching, which is when you adjust how you speak, but not just how you speak, how you act, your personality, how you show up entirely in order to fit in. And you know, a lot of folks, especially black folks, believe that this is necessary. It is a skill in order to be successful.

And so I, especially earlier in my career, felt that I needed to change who I was, including my hair. You see my curly hair here. I straightened my hair for years because in financial services, it was a known thing that if you showed up with natural hair, you either wouldn't get a job or you wouldn't get promoted. And so one of the things I realize now, the world is changing. I'm very happy, slowly, slowly changing. But I have found that you can be yourself at work and be successful, and in fact, people will respect you for it. So there's that. The second thing that I learned, in terms of by any means necessary at all costs, is around self care and your own personal well being. And I suffered immensely, right, my physical health, my mental health, for the various roles that I had. And here's the thing, is that you are not your job, and this was a huge realization for me.

You know, I've been seeing on LinkedIn in my last couple years, especially black women. One of them, she had stage four breast cancer, and she was laid off while on medical leave, while getting chemo. She was just a line item, right? In another one, somebody's wife, somebody that I know, there was a picture of her in the hospital room. She, you know, had to have surgery and was not well, and she had her laptop up. She was working in the bed when she got laid off, right? And so I share all this to say that, of course, we're going to work hard, but if you sacrifice your well being for those jobs. Jobs, those companies are not going to do the same for you. It's not in both directions.

And so I do believe that it is possible to be successful, but it's all about boundaries and also prioritizing. You can't do everything, so choose. And you and I were talking about this earlier, how do you choose the top priorities? And I say, do what matters to the people that matter most. Do what matters most to the people that matters most, rather than what I grew up with, which is do everything by any means necessary. If you are selective about what you prioritize, you're going to still rise up in the ranks. You're going to still achieve your goals. You're just going to do it efficiently.

Analiza: Oh my gosh. Zee, I want to just point to a few things. One is this concept that it's we're in a capitalist world, right? And capitalism runs like this, where you maximize profits and you maximize the resources and capital. Capital includes human capital, that's us. And as much as we think that we are special, because we are also part of the system of resources. And when you maximize capital, you can be interchanged. That's actually how it works. And so the more ZS and analyzes that they have in the world which are super hard charging, the better for the system.

But really, it's never been about Analiza or Zee it's the system and it's about money, so we got to realize that right off the bat, and that this beautiful, beautiful I love so much that you're giving us a clear tool do what's most matters with the people who most matter. And that then helps to clarify for me and you also shared with me in what season, in this season, who matters, what matters, focus on those things and know that you are a thumb in the bucket for work. You are just a thumb in the bucket. And you also aren't your work. You aren't your grades, all those things. We are. We right? We are the people we are. So I appreciate that, because I didn't learn that anywhere, definitely not from our upbringing, right?

Filipino culture is not here. You are your job. You are like, my mom was like, Is my is her children. I am her, right? Hi, I'm who I am. And these are what my children do. So therefore I'm worthy. Yes, worthiness. I want to talk about just how, and you have this amazing book and how there's this message right about worthiness, where I want to lift that up, because we've been taught through school, through our jobs, through our loving parents, that like worthiness is external, and yet it's not. So can you talk more about this in your own particular journey? Where did you and where do you find worthiness? How do you ground yourself in your self worth? Zee: This is a constant journey. I'm not gonna I feel like if I said and I figured it out, and I always feel super confident and know my worth at all times, that would be a lie, but I'll say that it has been a beautiful journey, and I am so much further along now than I was five years ago, than I was 10 years ago, let alone when I was 17, making that college decision of, do I go to Harvard or Juilliard? And I'll say my starting point was the extrinsic values, the external definitions of success. That's what I interpreted as, what defined my self worth originally, because that's what I was brought up with. People will respect me if I go to the best college, if I work at the best brands, right? And that's what I did. I will say that then, when health happens, when death happens, I have lost a lot of friends in my 30s. I've lost many friends, and you know, some of them to health issues, some of them to accidents, and a couple of them to suicide.

Okay, to suicide. So in my 30s, two of my best friends passed away from suicide. And so with that said, those big emotional moments make you take a step back and ask this question, Who am I? And in the mindfulness world and you know, there's some, some gurus and some teachers that really encourage you to ask that question and get quiet. Who am I? Who am I without this job, right? Who am I? Like you could put all the things, your resume, your titles, I'm a mom. I'm this, but if you strip it all the way, who am I? And so I'd say that my mindfulness practice was really helpful in determining that and also knowing that I am lovable and worthy without all that stuff, right? We all are. In my book, black people breathe, I share a lot of personal stories around microaggressions and racism.

Every chapter is something that happens to black people and people of color, depending on where you're from and the certain environment, but whether it's racial profiling in stores, whether it is microaggressions in the workplace, being the only and I share these experiences where. People tried, I don't know. I won't say it's intentional, right? I will just say that as a result of those experiences, I really questioned my self worth because I was treated a certain way. And so it was getting quiet. You know, particularly in my mindfulness practice, I even went to a silent meditation retreat for 100 black women, okay? Silent meditation retreat. Ages. The people range from age 23 to 85 right? And there's so much wisdom, especially, you know, the youth that maybe haven't been so impacted and shaded, and then the elders who have lived it, seen it, seen the cycles. And I'll say, I find inspiration from both ends, right? And from all we can all learn from each other.

But, you know, in my book Black People Breathe, I actually have a chapter called countering imposter syndrome with courage, and I share some practical exercises that you can do to kind of boost your confidence, especially when you have moments of self doubt, and one of the practical so it's a framework called web app. That's an acronym. W is for welcoming the voice, the voice of self doubt. So rather than trying to squash it like, let it like, you know, let it be there. What is this voice saying? Right? And really pinpointing what's the loudest thing this voice says? The E in web app is for evidence gathering. So okay, let's make a list of evidence that supports that statement and a list of evidence that this proves it. For me, there was one particular job where every morning I thought I was going to get fired, the CEO did that.

He just whatever he felt like, you know, and so that anxiety of thinking I was going to get fired every day actually making these lists of evidence that she supports, that this thought and evidence that disproves it, and typically the evidence that disproves it is going to be much longer because it's all in our head, we go into our fight or flight mode, which leads me to the B in web app, which is breath work. So I specialize in breath work, and there are breathing practices that you can do to calm your anxiety. There are breathing practices that you could do to boost your confidence when you need to use your voice. And then there's the A in web abbots for affirmations. And research shows that affirmations are effective if they have certain characteristics, one use your name and not I, when you say I there's something in the ego there that you resort back to, like what your second grade teacher said to you that made you feel you know whatever that might be for you.

But so use your name and not I, present tense, not future tense. A lot of people are like, I will be amazing. I will get whatever it is that you want. But even just with that, future tense has doubt in it, so present tense. And then frequency, because your neural pathways they can adopt, right, they can relearn. If you have that frequency, because it took us our entire lives to believe that we weren't worthy. So we need that repetition so that our neural pathways can relearn. And then the V in web app is for visualizing Olympic athletes. There's research that shows that when they visualize their performance in an event versus when they actually do it, it stimulates the same regions in the brain, and that's true for us in everything that we do, whether it's work or outside of work, when we visualize then that becomes real for us in our subconscious, which then becomes real in our conscious mind when we actually do the thing. So those are some practical tips. But all of this to say, pausing mindfulness, listening to how we're doing is the first step.

Analiza: Thank you so much. Zee, for the practical tool, we all, we all, no matter how confident, right? Oprah, I mean, these are all amazing people, including yourself. Amazing badass Zee, just to say that, I want to name that there. It's normal, right? It's normal to have imposter syndrome, to have doubt it's a human experience. We as women of color experience it more because we're further away from the white dominant culture, and there are real tools. So thank you for that really practical tool. I want to stress one of your W of the welcoming, because often you're like, I shouldn't feel this. I, you know, this is terrible.

I, you know, we feel bad already, and then now we're going to pile on with like, we'll feel worse because we shouldn't feel this way, and it's wasting time, and now we're on a doomsday and so I love so much that we open with welcoming, because the compassion that we can show toward this moment is actually the compassion we can show in general to ourselves. So let's welcome and say it's okay this moment like I welcome you and thank you for trying to keep me safe, and thank you for trying to make sure that I am, you know, protected from all of these different dangers around also, let's move into evidence. So I just, I so appreciate that, because it's, you know, often we're like, well, in this moment, I'm a different person. Like, actually, we're the same person in all moments. And so can we learn from this and pause and. Actually be more self aware, because we're not really learning these things right?

See, from generally, from schools, from our upbringing, from the workplace in general. So we have to learn to do these things. In your case, you're actually trying to bring it to the workplaces. So I love that, because we're not okay. And Alisa, let me give you a tip. Or, you know, woman of color rise or this podcast, let me give you a tip. Let's actually try to bring this into corporate culture. So I want to talk about that, Zee because, right? Like corporate culture, changing management is hard, right? And now we're going to the depth of our awareness of there's capitalism, but then we're also trying to ground and we know we're more productive when we can invest in ourselves like we know that, and yet they do have some tension, right, like maximize every minute, give of yourself all the time. Now let's actually pause and make sure we fill ourselves, our self worth, our energy, etc. And I'm curious when you've been working with different corporations, where have you found the most ability to change? Like, what kind of characteristics do you see in these organizations that you've seen actual change?

Zee: It's always interesting to follow the money. Okay, what do I need the organizations that put money behind the words, right? And so they might say that they are, you know, passionate about caring for their employees and employee well being okay. Well, then how much are you investing in your employees' well being right? And so I'll just say that there are some organizations that have allocated budgets for people to feel better, and they have programs, and they try to offer as many things as possible to give people those tools, right? And those are the organizations that I typically work with.

I will say that there are other organizations that talk the talk, you know they but they don't walk the walk. In those organizations, I have found that employee resource groups are the ones that are taking it upon themselves to take care of their communities, right? So whether that's the women's employee resource group, the black one, the API one, right? LGBTQ, right? It's us taking care of us and trying to, like, find the scraps of budgets to make that happen, or in a homegrown way, because there is no budget. You know, I led the African American Employee Resource Group at one of my companies. You know, previous, you know, places of employment, and our budget was $0 $0 right?

So you know, that's the reality that a lot of folks face. I will also say that, you know, some of the workshops that I provide stress management, 101, countering imposter syndrome, managing fatigue, prioritizing self care, I try to really help people have tools they can integrate throughout their day. So one of the biggest things that I learned as I transitioned from I was a sabbatical, I was in India studying all these things, and then I went back to the workplace, you know, where I was a VP again, leadership team, etc, was that the tools I learned in India were much more powerful outside of the yoga studio and in the context of everyday life. So while, yes, it's amazing to go to a yoga class and to do these big things and get a massage. You know, what's more effective is a five minute break where you stretch in the middle of the day?

You know what's more effective is getting up and going for a walk for 10 minutes, where you can fit it into the day. And, you know, the name of my company is reclaiming flow. Flow state is the optimal state of consciousness where we feel our best so we can perform at our best, but you don't feel your best if you don't take breaks, if you don't take care of yourself, if you don't eat, if you don't I mean, I don't know about you, but I've had moments back when I was like in a very in a different mind state, where I had to pee, okay, back to back meetings. I had to be, but I needed to be there, so I couldn't be, and I had to. That is very bad for oneself, and, you know, for the sake of the company and the work, etc. And so I think what companies need to realize is that prioritizing the well being of their employees is actually prioritizing ROI and profits. And people don't often make that connection. But burnout, I don't remember the stat now, but I did see a stat that had $1 amount next to how much money burnout is causing companies because people are either not productive or they're quitting or they're on leave. I know not so many, but I can name at least three people in my life that are on mental health leave right now because they're not okay. Yeah,

Analiza: it's sad that we actually have personal people, I mean, our own personal experiences, but our good friends family who are suffering and really having a tough time taking care of themselves because they're so inundated with I need to show them that I. That first, please don't fire me, and then second, that I'm worthy. I'm worthy of being here. I'm lovable. So I wanted to pile on here with your earlier point too, that with corporations, we can actually assess, as women of color, whether or not they walk the walk, right? Because a lot of people talk to the tech Yeah, we believe in Dei, and yes, we are invested in people of color. But then we can actually ask ourselves or ask the company one, where, how much money do you dedicate to your well being initiatives, or what kind of programs do you actually have?

What kind of support do you have for mental health? And then second, connecting with people on ERCs to say, how is this experience? And for you, you would have said, I don't have a budget, but we have our ERC, and that's helpful to actually know what is the type of experience that we're having at our company, so that we can learn before we join. So I love that, and I love that you're providing this for really great companies who are trying and that you have started your own company to, you know, really manage yourself and your your and prioritize, you know, your mental health and well being. So it's so beautiful. I was going to go to our questions, our lightning round questions, is that okay?

Yeah, totally okay. Zee, chocolate or vanilla?

Zee: Chocolate, dark chocolate and dark chocolate.

Analiza: Nice cooking or takeout?

Zee: Cooking, clearly cooking for me.

Analiza 26:37 Climb a mountain or jump from a plane?

Zee: I've done both, but I'm a rock climber. I'll say, climb a mountain. You get more reward at the end.

Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Zee: Yes, camping, it's the best thing for camping in the evening.

Analiza: How would you rate your karaoke skills on a scale of one to ten, ten being Mariah Carey?

Zee: Well, I'm only half Filipino, so I'd say I think like a four what's a recent book you read? One of my favorite books that I reread a lot is the Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz. And are you familiar with the Four Agreements?

Analiza: Please share. We'd love for you to refresh, be impeccable with your words.

Zee: Don't take anything personally, don't make assumptions, and always do your best.

Analiza: What's your favorite way to practice self care?

Zee: Having a very solid morning and evening routine. So in the morning, you know, when I as soon as I wake up, I do breath work, I meditate, I do a little journaling, and then in the evening, I always have wind down time, no screen time, doing a little restorative yoga, doing something that brings me joy, but just having that clear marker that, like my day is winding down now.

Analiza: What's a good professional development you've done?

Zee: I am a strong believer in getting an executive coach, and I have had a couple over my, you know, over the years, that have really changed my life. It's like therapy for work, but, like, really, so, so helpful.

Analiza: What's your definition of a Boss Mama?

Zee: Boss Mama. Now, this term, I mean, I'd say, as women, we all often have just natural tendencies towards care and nurturing. And so for me, that is nurturing your business and your work and your colleagues, it is also nurturing yourself and it's nurturing everyone around you, because that's just it's not separate your life at work and your life at home and right? And your relationship with yourself, it's about being nurturing across the board.

Analiza: And what advice would you give your younger self?

Zee: It's not that serious every time. You know big life decisions, and you're like, but if I don't do this like, I'm gonna change my you know what? It's so overly dramatic, like, relax, it's not that serious.

Analiza: And then where can we find you, like LinkedIn.

Zee: I'm on LinkedIn. Zee Clarke. I have a monthly newsletter that you know. I share an article on various topics, like how to deal with difficult co-workers, or how to handle women's health at work. But also you can find out more information for me at my website. zeeclarke.com, and also on social media like tick tock and Instagram. zeeclarkebreaths.

Analiza: Beautiful and then last question, do you have a final ask recommendation or any parting thoughts to share?

Zee: I'll say a couple things. One, if you work at an organization where your colleagues could use a little bit of stress relief, then please recommend my breath work at work workshops, or my black at work workshops. And then lastly, I'll just say a mantra that has been very helpful to me in my journey that took me a while to really internalize. I choose me, because, especially as women of color, we just are always taking care of other people and on an airplane. You know, it might be cliche, but they say, put your mask on first before you help other people. And that's just not instinctual to a lot of us. Instinctually, we go and help others, but if we are not whole and full inside, we cannot be our best selves for others. And so I invite everybody, every day, to say, today, I choose me. And if you lived with that, today, I choose me, how might that change your choices?

Analiza: Today, I chose me. Ah, so inspired by you Zee. Thank you so much for all of the wisdom advice, also the practical tools that we can take going forward. Thank you. Thank you.

Zee: Thank you so much for having me. I love this conversation.

Analiza: Thank you so much for carving out time to hear today's podcast, three things before you go. First, if you found it helpful, please leave a five star review. Second, you can get a free chapter of my book, The Myths of Success: A Woman of Color’s Guide to Leadership at analizawolf.com/freechapter. And lastly, if you're interested in executive coaching, please reach out to me at analiza@analizawolf.com. Thank you so very much.