Analiza: Welcome to the Women of Color Rise Podcast. I'm Analiza Quiroz Wolf, proud Filipino American executive leadership coach, and former CEO of a nonprofit and Captain in the US Air Force, and also the author of The Myths of Success: A Woman of Color's Guide to Leadership. It's based on the lessons learned of many women of color leaders, including those on this podcast.

We talk with successful CEOs and C suite women leaders of color, and learn about their leadership journeys. I'm on a mission to support having more diverse leaders at the table. If you're a woman or woman of color who wants a seat at that table, you're in the right place. Now let's get into today's show.

I'm excited to be with Shawna Wells today. Shawna is a legacy architect. She's been an executive coach Since 2010 and is the founder of a seven figure business, 7Gen Legacy group, where she helps black Americans plan their legacy and establish intergenerational health and wealth. She's also the author of the children's book B is for black brilliance. Shauna serves on the boards of several organizations working to impact the lives of black women, black communities, of black students, including the Highland project and the University of Vermont College of Education and Social Services. Shawna, I'm so appreciative that you hear Thank you. Thank you.

Shawna: You're welcome. I'm glad to be here too. Thank you for having me.

Analiza: Shawna. I want to start with identity. How do you identify and how has that shaped your career path?

Shawna: Yes, thanks for asking. If you asked me this seven years ago, I would answer the question differently. So I'm going to honor evolution here. First and foremost, I'm a mom, and I think part of my identity, part of my accepting that identity is like a lifelong journey that I didn't know I was on other identities I occupy. I'm a business owner, and I am biracial, and identify with both sides of my storyline. The world sees me as black. I'm a black woman and I am a 90s hip hop fan. That is actually a real, real part of my identity, so I gotta mention it here. I'm a partner and a friend, and I am an activist, which is one that I've come to learn that I am and had to accept along the way. So it's an honor to step into several identities as I take on the work now as a business owner and entrepreneur, and really accept that these are things that contribute to my storyline, who I am, how I support other folks who are doing work to build their companies and build their organizations.

Analiza: I have to tell you, Shawna, it's rare that I hear as part of the identity story, the business owner piece. So if it's okay, I'd like to stay there, because claiming that as part of a core identity, in fact, you named it as your second. Can you share? How did that evolve? Was there an aha moment? What allows you now to really declare that as part of your identity?

Shawna: You know, the reason I claim it as second is because I was resistant to it for so long, and it took me a while to think I was enough to own a business, and so the reason I claim it is because I need to practice saying it out loud and to honor the privilege, opportunity, ability and pathways that my legacy and state that my lineage has shaped for me to be able to accept being A business owner and somebody who has ownership over my own work. And it took a lot of healing to accept that I could do that. And once I realized that I was doing that, and have been doing that for now 13 years, I was like, hell yeah, I'm gonna say it out loud, right? Like, this is something that a small percentage of us get to do, and get to figure out, I wish it was more. And as women owning a business is, I think, an opportunity of a lifetime, so I accept it as a responsibility, not just for my own business, but for me to say it out loud on behalf of women that came before me, that wish they could have, and women that say it now loudly and proudly or kind of whisper it however, we need to come together to say it. I think it's really important to own the responsibility of making a mark in the world, which is what I believe actually business is.

Analiza: I love owning it and actually modeling it as well. That's how I hear it, because when you declare it, it makes me question myself. I don't want to declare that there are so many other identities, and I wonder how that shapes not just how people perceive me, but also how I perceive myself. Shawna, can you talk about healing? Because it sounded like that was core to how you even arrived at this. The. 13 years, how does the connection to healing now allow you to declare it as part of the core piece of you?

Shawna: Yeah, well, I think healing is about coming around, playing small, so I spent much of my time and life in practicing leadership, saying I'm good meeting the number two, I'm okay, like, I can iron out this wrinkle. You come to me with a thing, and I will solve it for you, and I'm happy to stay in the background. And becoming a business owner actually means that you have come to accept what is yours to do. And what became really clear is that every organization I joined, I was, like, helpful and humorous, but I was also a little bit of an agitator. And I think every boss that I've ever had called me that at some point. And part of why I was an agitator was because I believed that something else was possible, and I wanted to do it right then and there. And in the beginning, I thought something was wrong with me, and as I started to work alongside many coaches, many people who have been able to share their own legacy and their own journey with me. By way of gaining strength, I came to realize, the more I can accept myself and accept the story I'm supposed to tell, the more I can heal. And in healing, I can both heal some of the traumas in my lineage, which I think I come from, a lineage of people who decide not to because it feels scary and that's masked by working really hard. The more I can accept that actually, I can both help the world and own a business and own myself and love myself through that process, the more I can heal. And when I do that, I heal on behalf of the next generation of women that's coming from my family and the next generation of women that I have the opportunity to influence in the seed that I occupy. So my healing actually became a commitment to the next generation and a commitment to the company that now I get to be leading on behalf of what I have come to do.

Analiza: Shawna, the idea that this is actually can help with the healing, and that you fully are owning it and seeing it as part of the legacy translation in the work you do actually not just the seven Gen work, but actually your yourself, your community, the business. I mean, it's beautiful coming together. And I'm curious, how did you move from saying I'm not going to be number two here, I'm actually going to declare it, because there's a bit of a leap, right? Because now you're declaring it. And you're not just on your own because you had been on your own for 13 years, but now there's a shift in how you're showing up. Is it the declaration? Like, what is that thing you're healing? So it's not like it's complete, right? And you're now out saying something, declaring something. Can you talk about that transition? And then here's what changed.

Shawna: Yeah, well, I'm smiling at you because I'm like, I think you've done this. It's super scary, right? It's like this, you're putting yourself out there as a and really in the founding of a business, like you're the in the beginning, you are the lead practitioner, right? You are the person who is representing the product, and so you're putting yourself out there, and putting yourself out there means you got to be okay with people telling you no, and you got to be okay with people telling you yes, and you got to be okay with people pushing up against your boundaries. And you got to be like, there's so many different flips and turns and mental gymnastics you have to start doing when you've put yourself in front of the world to say, I'm doing this, and please come to me for it, and in exchange for you coming to me for it, I'm going to give you a really high quality experience that will ultimately change your life. But your question is like, okay, so how did I do that? The real answer is, like, I stumbled a lot. And by stumble, I mean, like, sometimes I would stutter, right? I would literally have like, an unclear thought and try and put it out in the world, and then feel the wrath of being unclear. So first things first, I started to get really precise on my thinking. And that was a practice and a ritual I arrived at every day. So I would spend quiet hours by myself in the morning. I get up at 4am. It's not everybody's jam, but it's mine. And I would sit and I would just write for hours about what I thought. I have two kids, they wake up at around 7: 30 so I have some time. And in the writing process, you start to get to know yourself again. And then I would start to speak out loud what I really believed about what needed to change in the world, and I would speak to you, I would speak to the right. I would just test my theories, and then in very safe ways, hear people push back on them. And by having to practice saying out loud to people I really care about and love to take up their air time, I became more clear. And then it becomes more clear. Or then you get to do things like write your business plan, like, what do I actually offer the world? How much is that worth? Right? And, you know, I think the thing we don't talk about as business owners, like business owners, is like money, which is the irony of business ownership, right? Like people are so afraid to talk about, what's their rate. And I bring that up because that was some of the healing I had to do, right? I had to figure out clarity of thought. I had to test my clarity, and then I had to figure out what it was worth, and notice I didn't say what my worth was. I said what it was worth. And that took a lot of research. It took a lot of time, and it took a lot of understanding how money works in the world. And for me, money is just data, right? And so we had to figure out what the exchanges that we're gonna make. But it was really like for me, I'm like, a pragmatist, right? I gotta trick myself first into understanding who I have come to be through a set of rituals that I do every single day. And so that's how I got to this point of like your business owner, you are okay, and you have healed along the way. The person that you would have talked to seven years ago, 13 years ago, is not the person arriving to you today, right? And so just acknowledging that and thank you for the space to do it is an important, I think, ritual that we all need to walk up to as we cross the threshold of owning whatever our story is, from business to being a chief officer to walking alongside other chief officers, there's nothing wrong with any of those roles. It's finding the clarity of thought and what it's worth that is most important.

Analiza: There's a lot of beautiful points you shared here. I want to stamp a few things. One space, the rituals that you've created in a particular space, hours of space, we're not talking about. Let's do meditation for 15 minutes. 20 minutes, you're like three and a half hours. That is commitment, and daily. It sounds like you continue to do powerful, so powerful second that you're going to speak out loud, stutter out loud, to save space for your community who loves you and will share and say what I don't understand, whatever questions they have. And the third I heard you say, put a number to it. And this ritual has then allowed you to get for me when I listen to it, I'm like, Oh, you can follow the steps and not say, shoot. Am I at mile two of 26.2 miles. How long is this marathon? You're just going to follow the practice. Keep on. Keeping on. I want to ask about step three, because the money thing is real, right? Because we can talk about, what journal do you use? You know, what prompts you like that, and we love that, but we don't talk about the money. And sometimes I'll have some conversations about rates. They're like, what you charge, how? And I want to talk about that, Shauna, you have a seven figure business. I mean, incredible. Congratulations. I hope that continues to grow. The fact that you say that. I mean, one is inspiring. Two is rare. A woman of color with all the beautiful parts of your identity. I love that. And I also wonder, step three, can you add more to that?

Shawna: You know, I think I read a recent research that says you develop your relationship with money between the ages of zero and five. So if that's true for me, then I understand my initial resistance to anything having to do with money. And actually, as I think about my own lineage, and at seven Gen, we do this a lot. We ask people to go back in time and think about where you came right and understand that, because that's influencing who you are now, and it is relevant, and you may not even realize it. Both of my grandmothers were people who would give you anything, in fact, like myth, with a mythical story of my grandmother that she went into the doctor's office, the lady says, I like your dress. And my grandmother goes into the bathroom and she takes her dress off and she gives it to her. No questions asked, right? I'm like, I have questions about how she got home, and her father said, when she got home, no idea, right? But this is like this idea of giving, right? And this idea of giving without question, and that sounds beautiful, right? And also there's a shadow, which is, you're also worth the dress on your back, and it is okay to have a nice thing without expecting that. You have to give it away at the suggestion of someone liking it, right? And so those are the women I come from. And you know, I love those women, I cherish them, and I'm grateful. And also, they gave me no blueprint for how to think about money, so part of what I had to do was really understand how that impacted me and talk about it. So I grew up in space. I went to private school my whole life. I grew up in spaces around very wealthy people, and I wasn't and so I would always try to act up, right? I would always try to, you know, I would get, like, a knockoff purse, or I would talk like, I would just speak about, I would over speak about money. Yeah. And you could, like, if you hear that be like, Why were you wearing a mask? What it taught me was like, it's just me, right? Like you can fool yourself into thinking that you have it, and that's part of actually, like, shaping a mindset around money. It's first, like, what do I? What is actually possible? Because in doing that and pretending a lot of other doors open for me, and I got to see a whole mother vantage point of the world. And while I saw that, I started to see, okay, so what? While Money doesn't buy happiness, it does make life a lot easier, right? And so what are the things that if I were to build a life that was actually healthy, that contributed to other people's lives and also helps me build generational health over time. What would it be? And I envision that world, and then I put a cost to it. Hmm, I literally figured out the cost. And so when I say research, that's what I mean. I research myself. What is the world I envision, what is possible and how much does it cost? And I would start to write it down. Now you can imagine that once you start to do the math, I don't have any other option but to run a seven figure company, because what I want to leave behind on behalf of the next generation is change. What I know is that if I want to create change, I got to invest in people like you, and I got to invest in the Highland project, and I have to make sure I invest in my own family, that act of giving that I talked about earlier is still very much alive in me. I want to fund it. And so then I started asking myself, How do I find it, and how do I do it in a way that still is meaningful, that is an ugly the ugly parts of wealth, and that allows us to really breed together what we're good at and what people need, and when we can do that, then we can start to build towards a new goal, instead of how much can I have to get by? How much can I have to change the world? And then how do I redistribute that? And so the way that I picture our wealth that my family and I have been able to build is like a redistribution of health and wealth to the people I care about the most. And I'm glad to be able to do that, and also that shift in mind really helps me overcome things like, is it $250 an hour, or is it $275 an hour? Like, I'm not even trying to mess with you on that right? Like we have got to figure out the life we're working to live, the life we're working to contribute to, and then figure out how our skill set and our talent can connect with the world and help shape it. And when you do it from that perspective, it gets more abundant.

Analiza: It's such a beautiful connection, because it's no longer like, what's my max rate, Shawna, what's the thing I can pimp out that will get the most money? It's no longer that what I hear from you, it's more what's possible, and how can I create this life that's actually beyond me. And yes, it's a legacy, but now when I charge something, it's my gift, right? It's the gift that is a value. And aligned is, this is the rate, and so whether or not you want it. And so that's another thing, right? If you want this gift at that price point. And I am also okay to stand in some yeses and then some no's. And so can you talk about that too? Shawna, because there's real not only talk about money, but shoot, man, I'm putting myself out there talking about money, putting myself out there, and then I got to be positioned. Because if, when I'm going to get some yeses, I'm also going to get some no's. I mean, you do a lot of coaching talk about that piece, because it is hard, right? We already get the side eye throughout our childhoods, trying to make it work, trying to wear nice clothes and the bag and stuff. And now we're like, Okay, I'm here. I am. I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask, so can you talk about that and how you're able to say, how you repair this like possibility with like the mindset of, okay, I'm gonna make those asks.

Shawna: Here, I have to credit Rachel Rogers, which, if you haven't read our book. We should all be millionaires. Everybody should, even if you're not running your own company, but you're inside of an organization, and you're really thinking about, like, how does money work? How does the exchange of money work? It's a very worthwhile healing experience to walk through with her, and I had the opportunity to work alongside her. I am a hell of seven coach, so I have a little bit of like, you know, I love the work that we get to do alongside business leaders. And here's the thing that, like continues to come up for me, which is, if you don't ask someone else will, if you understand what you I say often, what you have come to do, if you understand very clearly the personal legacy you're aiming to live and leave, then you know what you're good at, and you know you can add value. And so if you're adding value, then you're likely changing and I believe when I add value, I'm changing lives, right? And so many of the people I work alongside and have the honor to do so the conversation I. With them during, like, the pricing conversation, which I still get nervous for. So please know, like, I still have to ask you for something, is, if I can change your life or your organization, how much does that work for you? And the answer is, like, well, like, if you can change what's happening to me right now, that's worth everything. Okay, so it's worth everything. Let's just put a monetary value to that, and then you got to be ready. Like a no is actually an opportunity for you to decide, did I lose a client that really could have been mine, or was it just not meant to be? And I do believe that, like you get a lot of clarity about who you are meant to work alongside and who you are, and it's never about money. And, no, it's never about money. It's about being able to prioritize the work. And you could be coming up against someone when you're working with them saying a truth they're just not ready to hear. The Money allows you to say, are you serious about this, because our budget and our calendars are moral documents. We have to then make a decision. And you might not, you might, just might not be the person for them at this stage. And most of the time, I think all the time, it has nothing to do with money.

Analiza: Shawna, do you bring faith into your work, or spirituality or universe, source, however you want to call it, does that play into this?

Shawna: Yeah, I mean, obviously, right, like, I have faith that the ancestors are looking out for me, and even when they're not, I think they are. You know, sometimes I'm like, Okay, y'all aren't listening to whatever requests I've made, but I do. I have faith that the universe is trying to hang with us, right? And I also have faith that when we get a no, it is for a reason. I don't always believe it. At first, I like, yell at it. Sometimes I'm mad at it. It's like, well as I share this and like, it's not like, it's all happy, it's sort of like I'm resolved to know that okay, that wasn't for me, and I either need to change something about the way that I am approaching it if I really want it, or believe that it's for me, or I need to just let it go. And I think we spend a lot of time separating on why not? And it just, like, it just is right? Like, you know, the thing that I think about a lot is like, if you're if you impact 1% of the world, that's still a hell of a lot of people, right? What is that like? That's still a million people. So that means that 99% of the world could say no to you, and you're still impacting a large swath of society. So, yeah, I have faith that we are supposed to do a thing, and that when we find it, we will be held.

Analiza: Shawna, I know you have a legacy roadmap or process that you bring people through. That's so I want to say three, six. It's just all the different dimensions. And of course, you meet people there with love, and also some, like, tough questions. And I'm curious if you've seen patterns, like ones that you're like, Ah, this. I'm pretty sure this is going to come up. Not to say it's definitely going to come up, but I see generally patterns here are the types. I mean, especially when you talk about the people that you're trying to serve you, name specifically black people. I love to hear from the 13 years even doing this, like, here's generally what I'm seeing as patterns that are lifted up.

Shawna: Yeah, they're probably patterns you've heard before, but I'll share them. Like, for sake of sometimes, like a loud song is, is a good one. First of all, legacy. People are resistant to the idea of legacy because, as you've heard me talk about before, most people think legacy is about death, and that is like a false narrative, right? It's not about death, and it's not about wealth, it's about living and it's about ensuring that we are living by a set of principles that people will see repeat back to us and be influenced by. And so when we meet resistance, it's because of that, right? It's either about dying or wealth, which are like the two things that people are most scared of, I think, next to public speaking. So there we go. The pattern that I notice in behavior is that we believe that there are six realms of a legacy and six rounds of a life well lived, and one of those realms is play, and so we believe you have to live and leave a legacy in each of the six realms. As grown people, we don't spend a lot of time thinking about playing. We've actually pictured our lives as adults, in most cases, getting the awards, getting the title, chasing, working, running, thanks to the 90s sitcoms and to all of the weight that we've been taught it means to be an adult, we've forgotten that part of our brain works through play and creativity. And so when I ask people, what's the legacy you're aiming to leave with play, they often say. Say, I hope the generation that comes after me has space for rest or creativity, and I hope my hard work, here's a kicker, helps them do that. So your way of working is actually contributing to them thinking they have to work in the same

Analiza: way. No, Shawna, sorry, you're just speaking. You're totally preaching to me. I'm like, Oh my gosh, I totally want my kids to play. And yet I'm, I won't say I'm grinding, dude, but I do work hard at this business that I do anyway. Thank you for that. Wow.

Shawna: No, I mean, but that is real, right? Like, that is a real thing. And here we are in this stage of human evolution, where I think we've come back around again to like the entrepreneurial spirit, right? Because if you think about it, in the beginning of time, everybody was an entrepreneur, but we can that's another podcast, but we're all working on a side hustle and working a job, and that is a eight day a week job that the next generation is observing us too, and we are claiming that on behalf of the legacy. And I'm not sure we always know the definition of what we're trying to leave, other than a stack of dollars or some land. And that is not I am also wanting to do that for my kids, to make life easier, but if they don't know what to do with it, we haven't done anything, you know, and so part of it is really coming to grips with like, what I believe is we have not been left a blueprint as folks who have made magic on the margins for a long time of what we do once we reach the dream that we say Our ancestors had for us, we have done it. So now what? Now? What is really exploring play as a realm and service as a realm, and the difference between service and work, and most of us define legacy as I did a good job at work, I earned enough money, and I have something to leave behind, and that is just a flat definition of what a legacy actually could be at its fullest.

Analiza: Shawna,I would be too much to ask what your six realms are?

Shawna: No, absolutely I love them. I love the six realms. So play as I shared a work service, and I want to talk about the difference between those two. So am I going to go back to that financial, well being and community and relationships. So those are the six. And what we find is that most people have built muscle and a couple of them, and that there are other ones where they are, like, really longing for something different, and the two that really get wedded together service and work, probably for both of us, right, like we believe that, like, we should live lives that are connected to a service, except there's a difference. Accepting that difference is actually a really liberating thing. So work is something we do on behalf of, on behalf of a cause, or on behalf of something that we believe we want to solve. Sometimes that's a force we believe we want to solve, and sometimes that's a choice, but in exchange for that, we get something in return. Materialistic service is something that we do because we believe it should change, and we expect nothing in return. And of course, there's something we get in return. We maybe get a hug or we get an acknowledgement, but it's nothing materialistic about exchanging what happens when we go into work like we chose to go into with the next generation of children in schools. We bind those things together, and when we wind those things together, we forget to set boundaries, and our identity gets all wrapped up into work. So when we lose work, or we choose to leave it. We go through this heavy grieving period because it makes us question our worth, so we can separate the two. What it helps us do is really organize for ourselves. What are we doing in the work category, and this is a job, and what are we doing in the service category? And how can I leave a legacy in both of them and feel whole.

Analiza: Shawna, you have two daughters, one older and one younger, and I'm curious, as you look at your life and how you've come around to developing this beautiful six part framework and then guiding them along the way, what are you saying to them that you like, damn. I wish I had known that that's okay, because I get to say this and model it. I'm curious, what are those explicit things that maybe they're not learning from school, or that you're trying to learn from us in these societal establishments? Anything explicit coming to mind that you're like, I gotta make sure that they hear this from me.

Shawna: This is such a beautiful question. I think in many ways we've, like, walked it together. So thank you for asking it, because, like, I remember some of our quiet conversations on this one and I have a daughter and a son, so I want to share one thing is that when I had my daughter, I was like, I'm not, I don't know how to do this. Like, I really, she's my older daughter who is seven. I don't know how to do this, and I'm not really. Sure how to be in the world as a mom. You know, I never thought I would have kids, and I never thought I would be a girl mom. And so part of what I had to understand about my own journey was like, what are the things that have given me strength and gotten me here? What are the things I need to let go of? And some of what I needed to let go of was like radical rigidity. And what I mean by that is like that. Things have to be a certain way, right? And that the path that gets followed is you do this and then you do this, and you lose this, and then you're successful. And that's just like kids are a great reminder of things that are actually not true. There are multiple ways to get to a truth, and when we can actually accept that we can feel a little bit more free in our mind, body and spirit. And so in raising my daughter and raising my son, I have come to this question that I ask them all the time, and we fuel this through B is for black brilliance, which is like what's possible, instead of saying what you can't do, instead of reminding them of all the no's, here's the boundary. What's possible within that boundary, and that alone has shifted how I am in the world and how they are in the world. And my daughter is like she's the most creative soul. And I think part of that is because what has changed inside of me, which is not to say I'm a perfect parent, right? I screw up like the rest of us. She'll have some therapy bills, I'm sure, but I know for sure she will know to ask the question, not, what can I do? What are the rules she'll ask? What's possible here? And I want her to keep doing that, and I want my son to be able to do that, and I want them both to be able to embrace a world where, like, actually, nobody knows the answers and the rules are all made up. So if you can figure out without hurting anybody what's possible, I want you to do that and run after it. And that's actually the work of living.

Analiza: Wow. I was not expecting that answer. It's so radical. I mean, honestly, because it's like, okay, well, let's dream differently. Here's some guidance that you know, don't trip up, that. I love that, because it's like a way of thinking that opens up her own options. Whatever she's in, whether she's in a park or she's at school or she's facing something small or large, it's just it goes so well with creativity, because she can be her own. I love it so much. I want to shift to the seven figure Shauna because, honestly, I love it, and I'm so inspired by it. I hear you, you priced out like this is the life I want. There's my six realms. I want to leave land and money and all the things I want to do plus, I want to live a little wealth and play. So I get that you priced it and then saw the bill, because I just don't think that way. And when they had said, Talk to Shauna wells about seven figures, I was like, What? What? People I know are talking like that. And it was so inspiring to me. Can you just speak about it? Just I get you want to own it as part of your brand and what you deliver. But can you just speak about Okay, so here's what I had to shift about speaking it. But can you bring more, just more, like, okay, substance to get the number, I want, this, this, this goal. I'm gonna say it out loud and now, like, that's amazing. Yeah, I'd love for you to just speak about it.

Yeah. I mean, so the first, first things. First is, you have to realize it's possible, right? And you have to realize, like, when we talk about wealth, what we talk about is the word wealth, but it's unspecific. So that's the exercise of like, first of all, you're just like, you have to know what is enough, also what is possible. So you like, that is part of the that's part of the exercise. I think the second thing is, I really started to shift who I was around. So what do I mean by that? Well, the reality is, we act like the people who are closest to us, and so when I said, like, Okay, this is something that I need to go after, I want to go after. And we have a product here that I think is worth it in both companies, B is for black brilliance and seven Gen, who's also doing this because, as you've identified, it's a little lonely to talk about, and you can be easily swayed by whoever's in the room. And so I found, frankly, a new group of friends, and we were able to then play in the sandbox on what we were dreaming about, and what we were resting about, and what was, what is out there. And so as one friend would grow, we'd say, like, Well, what did you do? And then we'd like, take her with him and make her our own. And so I built a new squad, and we talk about this a lot at seven Gen like, you have to build your legacy squad that people who will hold your dreams as sacred because they are, then allow you to test some things out and support you when, like, be like, right? Like, cheering you on, finding an accountant, and then have them saying, Hey, this is the accountant I use. It's all over here. And so there is something about surrounding yourself with people who are also doing it that adds a ton of value and gives you the. Confidence that I am actually not alone. And for you and I in our space, that's really actually part of mine, right? We have, we are in a very traditional space, and so coming out of it and trying to find people to play in the sandbox with you was work. I don't want that to sound like it wasn't. It was work, and it was research, and it was like making new friends. And that, I think, is one of the harder parts. And then after that, to get very specific, as people can, like, take a tool to work, to work on, is like, I kept doing the math, and this was different math, so I said to myself, If this is how much my life is worth? Because essentially, that's what that exercise is, and I'm running a company, and I have a product that I think is viable, and you got to think that right, like, you got to really think it's like, it's worth it, because you're the one who's going to have to go fend for it, and you're the one who's going to have to make it relevant, and you're the one who's going to have to make it better on behalf of whatever, whatever service you provide, what are my options to do that? I could coach. I could run trainings, I could run retreats, I could build a product, right, which are all things that we do at both companies, and how much of each of those things do I need to do to get to that number. And then that tells me where I need to spend my time. And so part of it is like really understanding the mechanics of what you do well, what service you provide, and how the world will see you do it, and then you go after that, right? It tells you where to focus your time, energy and resource. I obviously have a lot to say about this, but I think it won't just happen. You have to scaffold it out and think about it and be really careful and thoughtful about how you enter into the world with a sacred practice of building a business, which I think is one of the most sacred things you can do.

You paired sacred with business, and I so appreciate it, because it is a whole notch of a notch. When you get your son and your daughter and you're your it's just upping your game. Right now, you're a mother, and you got to learn how to do these things, and yes, you're growing too, but to bring both of them, being a mother is sacred. Being a business owner is sacred. It won't happen overnight. I'll be a great mom, right? I actually have to work on it in the fall and then keep picking myself back up during daily practice. I want to ask Shawna about the community piece, because it is real. We don't talk like this. Shana, I mean, this is, it's so inspiring to hear you just blatantly say, like, dream it, do it. There are practices. It's possible. And I want to talk about community, because having people talk like this makes it more like a shoot. Shawna, did it? Okay? There's a model here. And other people like you mentioned Rachel Rogers, the community. People have mentioned masterminds, right? Like, go into a mastermind, pay for whatever it costs. Did you build your community through people you knew and networked into it, or did you just pay for it? Like, how do you do it because it's hard. I mean, I have to like, and it's not like, I don't know people, right? It's just really hard to talk to, find this specific group. How would you recommend finding that group?

Shawna: Yeah, it is hard. So I want to acknowledge that, like, making friends has been hard since the beginning of time, right? Like, we all learn that in kindergarten, and we will continue to learn it for the rest of our lives. And I didn't think I needed it at first. I was like, Oh, I'll be good. Like, I'm good over here, right? But I'm not. I need someone to push my thinking. So there are really three ways to go about it, and there's one way I'm most comfortable with, so I'll share that, which is one. You can pay for it. You can go into a mastermind. You can find the people. You get to spend time with them. If you pick a mastermind, what I would encourage is picking one that fits your style. So if your style is to sit in person and meet one on one, then your mastermind has to do that. It's not like you don't want to do a bunch of zoom calls where you don't get to talk one on one, because you won't make friends that way. You'll just show up to the Zoom call, listen in and leave. So there is an accountability measure when you go to a mastermind. And if that's what you need, then definitely like it. Worry. It works for people. The second way to do it is to show up where everybody else is. And so you can go to a conference, or you have one friend who maybe has built a seven figure business. Like, have them invite you to meet their friends. Like, what are the ways in which you can find your way to groups of people? And then the third way is to just find people who you've heard talk about seven figures. Like, if you DM me, I will DM you back, right? Like, so you're hearing me talk about it, ask, and that is a helpful like, you know, you go after the person, or you go and find them. It's, it's sort of like, I don't know. It's sort of like dating, I don't know. I mean, I guess, because that's not how I met my partner, but you know, I think that's how you do it, and that's the way I'm most comfortable. So if I hear you talking about having built a seven figure business, I am very interested in you. I want to know about how you did it, and I want to understand if I like the way you did it, and I want to understand if I like you and if I feel safe. With you, and if I do, then we're friends, and I hope that you will accept my invitation to be friends. When I invite people to be part of the conversation, it is an invitation. I use those words very specifically, because I want them to know that while I value their humanity and their life, I also want to learn from them, and not everybody wants to be a teacher. So those are the three ways that I found I am less comfortable with a mastermind because I can't find one that fits my learning style. I am more comfortable just finding the people who are talking about it and like talking about it.

Analiza: So it's like, one on one, Shawna, is that what you're saying, instead of, like, we meet monthly, and it's so structured. I mean, I don't know if

Shawna: Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, find your crew. You know, however you make friends, that's the way to do. It.

Analiza: Gotta be you, be you with people who talk about what you want to talk about.

Shawna: Yeah, and who shares your story, right? I'm not be able to connect with someone who inherited a business. I will learn something from you, but that's not the inner, inner crew that I need to be a part of. I need to hear it from somebody who's like, I didn't think I could do it. I realized I could, and here's how I did it, and that that has been an invaluable resource, and I hope they would say the same amount too.

Analiza: Powerful. Shawna, thank you for all of this incredible knowledge and the work you're doing and the Yeah, modeling for me, for many of us. Appreciate you so much. If you're ready for lightning round, we can go ready.

Shawna: Okay, let's do it.

Analiza: All right, chocolate or vanilla?

Shawna: Always vanilla.

Analiza: Cooking or takeout?

Shawna: Cooking.

Analiza: Climb a mountain or jump from a plane.

Shawna: Climb a mountain.

Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Shawna: No.

Analiza: How would you rate your karaoke skills on a skill of one to ten,ten being Mariah Carey?

Shawna: Okay, I'd like to think I'm a 10. I got all the moves, but I am a one because I cannot hit a note ever. But I will karaoke with you, if you would like.

Analiza: What's the recent book you read?

Shawna: I'm rereading. It's over here. I'm rereading all about love by bell hooks. I just want to go back to every year.

Analiza: Ooh, while we're on the book topic, any good books about seven figure businesses that you want to put in, besides Rachel Rogers, look?

Shawna: I think I really enjoyed Profit First as I set up our company and thought about how money works.

Analiza: Great. What's your favorite way to practice self care?

Shawna: I really like to sleep.

Analiza: What's a good professional development you've done?

Shawna: My good friend Octavia Rahim is sleeping. I did her program called devoted to rest, and it was radical and changed the way I think about myself and what I'm leaving behind.

Analiza: What's your definition of a boss mama?

Shawna: You know, it's funny, I reject the word boss, but I don't know why, so I won't stick on that for very long. I think it's about intention, and when you can put those two things together, you got to be in the right space.

Analiza: What advice would you give your younger self?

Shawna: A lot, I think I tell her, it's okay. It's all okay.

Analiza: Shawna. Where can we find you, besides LinkedIn?

Shawna: Thanks.7genlegacy.com, or bisforblackbrilliance.com. And on Instagram, @bisforblackbrilliance

Analiza: And then last question, do you have a final ask recommendation or any parting thoughts to share?

Shawna: Well, I would say my final ask is to go do it. Whatever it is that you've been asking yourself or assigned for, or whatever it is that's in the back recesses of your mind, whatever your 10 year old self dreamed about go do it. And the reason I say that is because it may not work, but at least you know, and you will learn something, and you will free your brain space to see the next thing. So go do it and make sure it's in alignment with who you are aiming to be and the person's legacy you're aiming to live, and as long as that's your filter, something on the other side will come out of it.

Analiza: Thank you Shawna, I love this conversation so much.

Shawna: Thank you. I was so glad to be here. It was nice to be in your brilliance, in your space. So thank you for the questions.

Analiza: Thank you so much for carving out time to hear today's podcast, three things before you go. First, if you found it helpful, please leave a five star review. Second, you can get a free chapter of my book, The Myths of Success: A Woman of Color’s Guide to Leadership at analizawolf.com/freechapter. And lastly, if you're interested in executive coaching, please reach out to me at analiza@analizawolf.com. Thank you so very much.