Analiza: Welcome to the women of color rise Podcast. I'm Analiza Quiroz Wolf, proud Filipino American executive leadership coach and former CEO of a nonprofit and Captain in the US Air Force. I'm also the author of a myth of success for women of color's guide to leadership. It's based on the lessons learned of many women of color leaders, including those on this podcast, we talk with successful CEOs and C suite women leaders of color and learn about their leadership journeys. I'm on a mission to support having more diverse leaders at the table. If you're a woman or women of color who want to sit at that table, you're in the right place. Now let's get into today's show.

Friends. I am excited to be talking with Dr. Christine Crawford, today, she is fearless, differentiated, inspired by a strategic CEO with over 15 years of business leadership experience. I want to call out a few things about Christine. First is that she coaches CEOs to face and address blind spots. Second, she was a franchise owner of seven McDonald's with over 300 employees. Third, she has a leadership role in YPO, formerly a young presence organization. It's a group of high profile CEOs, and she's also on boards of directors. We're talking about that. And lastly, a podcast, host of mistakes over failure. I am so excited, Christine, about our conversation. Thank you so much for being here.

Christine: Thank you. I'm excited as well, Analiza.

Analiza: Christine, you and I connected over identity. When I was in YPO, we talked about your role leading Dei, one of the faces for the organization, talking about Dei, talk about you and your journey, your identity, and how your identity has shaped you.

Christine: Oh, so I think my identity has shaped me, like most of us, because it really starts with your family, right? So that's kind of your first point of origin, and then, so you learn how you see your family and they see you, and then you're thrown into this world that makes a completely different set of assumptions, sometimes based on the packaging that you come in. And so I think how I see myself and my identity is rooted very much in my family and that first and foremost. But then the difficulties of what stories other folks tell themselves about you, oftentimes before they even talk to you, has been, I think, the hard part, and I think that's the part that continues to be a challenge. Also the thing, though, you know, I, like everybody else I'm guilty of, right? Like I make a whole story about somebody and what I think you know their background is, and who I think they you know are based on little pieces of facts that really have nothing to do with the person as an individual.

Analiza: So Christine, you ended up running seven restaurants like a franchise owner. Was that part of the plan? When did this dream spark? How did that come to be?

Christine: So my parents became McDonald's franchises. My mother ran the franchise when I got into McDonald's when I was 15, I was absolutely positively the least likely of my siblings to come back and run the organization that was not anywhere in the plan. I'd always been a scientist. I loved science, loved research, loved questions, and so went to school. Thought I might do an MD PhD, but then I was like, if I had to pick one, I really just want to do research. And I fell in love with public health research, and so became an epidemiologist. And while I was sitting at my desk at CDC, this was back when we still had landlines, some of my friends would call and talk about different business opportunities or talk through things with me, because I knew that my parents had done McDonald's, and I had this kind of background. And so really was like, Oh, well, maybe I could be good at this. And there's some things about entrepreneurship or running a business that I understand because of how I grew up, that maybe I ought to give it a try. And so I finished my postdoc at CDC, and I was like, I'll go home and try it, and I'll come back. And that was 20 something years ago at this point. So obviously I loved the folks that I got to work with, and the experience was hard. Hard at times and challenging, but I think that's also life, but it was also more fun. And my people were amazing, like you really appreciate with something like McDonald's, how hard your folks are willing to get up and work for you every day, and the things that they do and that they just that they show up and are willing to, you know, mop and clean and help take care of customers and all of the things that folks, I think, take for granted you shouldn't. And so I learned that from doing that work, and absolutely loved it. So it was a gift that I didn't know I was going to ever receive, and probably no one in my family thought I would be interested in receiving.

Analiza: Christine, the point about mopping floors and respecting our employees that really resonates with someone who I worked in the military, in the Air Force for five years. And all people are important, whether you're a general or you're the person who is at the cash register. We're all working towards a mission, and yet I see, I think you and I share this, the people that we lead often don't reflect we don't. We don't share the same identities. For me, personally, I led a lot of white men who are older, more experienced than me, and yet they were people on my team, and so I'd love to hear about your experiences with your 300 employees and you know, with your identity, how did that happen? How did that play out? What was that like in leading such a large group of people? What did you learn?

Christine: So I learned so much from them. I think one of my supervisors, Saritha Kimball, who I loved dearly, and who knew McDonald's better than I could ever hope to she was like, you need to do better for yourself and so in terms of taking time off and making sure that I had a social life. And so she really coached me in lots of ways. I think sometimes for inspections, my folks would, you know, say, Okay, we got this. We're gonna take care of this. You kind of stand down and let us do what we do. And I think they taught me so very much, I think I also learned that sometimes work is the safest and most stable place that a lot of folks have, and it is the community with whom you know we end up really, honestly, spending most of our time. And so what that can look like for your team members is really different and was not. It was something that I was surprised by, right, like I always thought work was just work. And so for it to be this place where you know the potluck dinners and how you really get to know and see folks kids grow up and what all of those very beautiful things I did not I completely and totally took those for granted until I started working with my team members who taught me so much about both myself and how you just take care of customers. I just learned, I think everything from them. I think the harder part was learning and leading in operator leadership. So there was, like a marketing Co Op and the menu innovation team, and all of these leadership positions that I held with other franchisees and McDonald's, and those tended to be lacks of older, mostly men, mostly white, but learning just to show up as myself and to to be secure in that even when you get tired. Because I think the thing that you get tired of, it's like, am I gonna be the only person to say this every time, right? Like every single time, do I have to be the person that says x and that gets to be old and hard and exhausting, but trying to still do it even when I don't want to, was the thing that I think was hardest about my particular identity.

Analiza: Yeah, I mean, it's not easy. Christine means to be the person who keeps having to remind that there's a standard operating procedure, that there's an expectation when you walk into the McDonald's of what the food will be like, the service will be like, the environment will be like. So as a leader, you are the chief communications officer. You are the chief nag officer, hopefully motivating, Chief motivation officer. And I also wanted to go back. This point earlier made that work can be a place of Yes, revenue, but also stability and safety, and we don't want to take that for granted, especially for people who truly it is a place where we can rely on the standard schedules and standard and people and people to take care of each other. Do you? Do you have an example, Christine, of someone that you are one of the employees you manage, who found safety and stability at work and their specific condition?

Christine: Well, I think one of the things, so there are lots, right? I think one of the things that the hospitality industry doesn't get credit for enough is how quickly we could train anybody, right? So lots of restaurants, lots of hotels, like lots of retail, you train people really quickly and give them a job, right? And that's regardless of background, right? So you have, you know, we have folks that work for us, that went to college, some who didn't in our particular industry. You know, we had some older folks who, you know, had they been born now, probably would have been diagnosed with some learning difference, and had some help, but, you know, didn't and so may not have been able to read as easily right as others. And so to still be able to show folks like you do this, this and this and these steps. These are the things you need to learn. These are the rules. This is how you do this and provide an avenue for them to make a living and support their families was really tremendous and a gift. And I think people make assumptions about why folks work in fast food, or that it's the only thing they can do and not the brilliance and hard work and dedication that it takes to show up and to take care of folks and customers who, I think, you know, because of the internet fold people realize how challenging sometimes we all are As customers because we've had a bad day, and how we take that out on folks and some of the fights and the people coming through the windows to provide a meal for somebody who may or may not have gotten off from work, or who may or may not have been at a hospital with a sick child right at 11 o'clock at night, but they need something to eat or drink. So the stories abound, because folk bought their first house with us, like we get to see people who were 16, right? And they start having children, and they buy their first home, and their kids go to school, they go to college. So all of that was tremendous, and getting to help new college students with their homework, right? Because they didn't quite get something, but now they got to take a math class that they weren't expecting in college, and they're doing their homework in the drive through window. And so they're all of those. Those stories are kind of too numerous, and they're not mine. I know what I got from them, but to say what they got from me, and what I hope was, I hate, let me say this. I hope it was safe and stable. I think that's what we tried to do. But I think ultimately, you'd have to ask them if that's really what we provided, right?

Analiza: There is so much joy and life to your story, because when we think about McDonald's, when I think about McDonald's, I I think it's important to remember they are humans who are showing up for us and working hard and we and just for you, to be able to see them in your family, your McDonald's family grow and Have kids, is a beautiful journey. Christina, I want to also add this piece, which I think is unique about your background, not only as a franchise owner, but also as a person who works with boards, works on boards, and has had positions advocating for more women, women of color, to serve on boards. Give me context. So, based on your experience, if you have any statistics, or if you have any research about why it's important to have representation on boards, what the numbers look like for diverse leaders, or generally speaking, why is this important for board service for diverse leaders?

Christine: So a lot of decisions for a lot of companies really are supported and made in boardrooms, right? And those. Companies serve both employees and customers who may not look like the boardroom, right? And that's been the problem. And so I think there's a study about there being that one, one particular year, there were more men named, I think it was Dick than there were women, right in the in some of these boardrooms. And so when these companies serve women people of color, then the folks who help make those decisions and guide and are serving at a governance level should also reflect those same employees and customers. And I think that's why organizations like him, who I'm affiliated with, and I serve on the Board for their public benefit corporation, illumine, are really working to make sure that boardrooms represent their employees and their customers and the world at large. And it's one of those places where people really refer and ask the folks that they know and that they're most comfortable with. And that makes sense, right? Because you're in this long term relationship with people, I think the average for board service, I think, is either seven or 10 years, right? But that's not a short relationship. So people tend to hire folks that they know and that they want to work with and that they're comfortable with, because you do have to discuss really sensitive, hard things, and so you want to do that with folks that you know and you trust. The problem with that is, though, if you just pick your network, then there are blind spots and places where, if you had someone that had a different set of experiences or expertise that you would have perhaps caught and I think a lot of times board searches, people say they want, you know, the one person they'll say, Okay, I want a person that has large equipment experience from a company that does that. So you're talking, you know, Caterpillar, like a tiny number of companies, and worked in this department for X number of years, had this size of budget. And if you picked the entire world of folks who had that experience, there may be three people on the entire planet, right? Who's had that? And you may miss the person that understands your workforce in a particular way and has a different set of experiences, or understands how to grow your market share from a very different vantage point than this person who has this very kind of finite set of skills, and you miss what your company could be. I think innovation really grows from difference, right? And I think that difference of perspective and how you question things and look at things I think could not is one of the most important things that has to happen in a boardroom, because it's basically where you ask questions like your your job is not to to run the company day to day, but it's to ask the questions of a leadership team around Okay, where do we need to be going? Have we looked at this as we grow? How are we going to get there? Like, have you, what does your succession plan look like? Who's going to move into this next role? Have you so all of those helping people see around corners, I think you can best do that when you bring a different perspective, and you don't want everybody seeing the same thing, because you miss things. And that's what I think all of the headlines, not all, a lot of the headlines that you see when companies hit the news, and it's not good things, it's because folks sitting in those rooms sometimes didn't ask, you know, the difficult questions.

Analiza: So let's stamp a few things Christine, you shared. One is that having diversity at the boardroom level is good for the company. It's because, you know, shareholders win when you can have people on the board who represent the demographics, the backgrounds of the customers, the team suppliers, and so there's just a breadth of experience that allows for the company to do better for shareholders. So let's make that case. Second, it's the power of diversity of thought, particularly the power of asking questions, and when you are a specific type of person who has a specific type of experience, and you get that specific, you miss out on people who can ask questions that are about blind spots, something that you do with your CEOs. So to name that, and the third piece that I want to raise. That is, it's not by design that you'll get the diversity at this table, because it is about networking. And that is good because you know people who you trust, but it's not good in that you're, you're, if you're, if your network is not diverse, you will not bring in diverse people, and you work in you know closely with him, for her, with the mission of bringing in more. For this case, women on boards. And I'm curious about Christine, because as much as I went through a board training program, a stake with the stakeholder impact Foundation, and what I found is that it's not about content. It's very helpful to have content knowledge, obviously, when you want to serve on a board, but what do you think about the board recruitment process and actually interrupting that, having worked closely for him, for her? It seems you're not just applying for a job, it's posted, and the whole world can have access. How does one actually interrupt the current who do you know, to open it up to capable and passionate board, board leaders who are interested in serving.

Christine: So I think it's what you talked about. It's both right. So it's both the process and impacting current board leaders, so that they understand the value and how to nudge them to push and think differently about who they should invite to join them, right? So I think it's that, and I think it's also pushing folks of color women, to understand that they are board ready, and what that is, right, and the comfort in, how do I help this business think differently, and that oftentimes, is larger than just this operating role that I've been in for the last 20 years, right? Because, even though you may be an expert in a particular piece of it, marketing, right? Your responsibility on the board is not just in marketing, right? It's not just to ask the marketing questions. It's to certainly use that expertise to think about lots of different aspects of the company. So I think it's both folks who currently serve on boards and know that they need to fill seats, how do I look for the things that aren't here, right? And it is also women and folks of color who are interested in board service, okay? A How do I talk about my previous experiences in a way that resonates in the boardroom, right? And just knowing what that is and what is a good fit for me, right? Because I'll tell you, I think one of the things that I've seen, both from my activity at YPO and then on the board service side, is people not realizing the amount of time that's required, right, and how long it takes to get a board seat, and what is a good fit for me, right? And what do I bring to the table? Am I honest about what I'm willing or interested in bringing? Is now the right time? Right? And having to, I think, in particular, for entrepreneurs, and if you've been in you know you've run a company for 20 years, you haven't had to sell yourself in a very long time, right? Like you've taught, you've gotten used to talking about what your company did, but the idea of explaining who you are and what you bring to those situations is new, and it is sometimes uncomfortable. And so I think that's that awareness of what is this world, and learning what it is and what it is that you want to do and why you want to do it is really important. And I think there are some folks who feel like they should be on board, just because that's the next step. But if you don't want to do it, and don't want to be engaged, and have to be honest about not having the time to be engaged, then you also probably don't need to do it either, right? And I think that there are some folks who are on board who hold the seats because they feel like it's what they're supposed to do, and sometimes you gotta know when to make room for other folks, absolutely, yeah, but that's hard, right? Nobody wants to ever give up privilege, right? Or, I mean, it's just that's not how we're wired, like it's why, you know, folks serve as interim CEOs, but then they don't really want to leave because they got good tool, and that's all of us, right? Privilege and a seat getting. Good to You. You. Is human nature, but making space for folks who, in some ways, are going to challenge you that can sometimes be difficult, and you're asking people to do a hard thing, and you also want the people who can challenge you to feel comfortable and welcome in those rooms so that they do the thing that you want them to do, which is to push you to think about things differently, so it's uncomfortable all the way around. I don't know if that answered.

Analiza: Christine, I want to stamp a few things that if people of color have so few things, we should have representation at the board level. That means current people on the board valuing having diversity as well as looking at alternate ways to recruit. So there's that work. And then for people of color, for diverse leaders, to actually step up to the plate and raise their hand to say, I'm ready. I'm interested. I'm committed. And I heard you say a few things, which I want to drill down on further. One is, how do you position yourself for a board seat? What is the pitch? Because often we don't sell ourselves, so you actually have to do the work to do this. And second that we need to be able to know what is a board that is my fit, where I can best serve. So to get practical, Christine, since you and I are both aspiring to continue in our board journey for corporate boards, when I think about how I position myself as someone who coaches leaders, helps them grow their organizations, and then also as someone who's had a breadth of experience, whether it's operations or marketing or sales strategy, and then particularly talent. It's this view, this overall view. And then third, it's this look at talented self, how you develop strong talent systems. That's how I tend to position myself as a way of adding value to boards. How do you position yourself Christine, when you talk about who you are and how you can be of service to boards.

Christine: So there are two parts of that. The first part that I think is actually the hardest, is just letting people know that you want to be on a board. That is a hugely vulnerable thing. Because what also happens is folks tell you why you're not ready, right? And I will tell you the vulnerability that it takes to do that cannot be underestimated, and is the reason why I even ended up learning about him for her. So when Jocelyn was founding the organization, and then ended up becoming a board member for the PBC attached to it years later. But none of that wouldn't have happened had I not just gone out on a limb and said, you know, one of the things that I want to do is beyond corporate boards, right? And there are, and that is huge and really hard. I think once you do that and make that first step, and you tell folks unabashedly, and you're secure in that, like, look, this is what I want to do. You don't have to agree. You don't have to think I'm qualified, but there are going to be people who think that I am qualified, right, and who see my value. And so getting comfortable with that is really hard, really, really, really hard. So I have to ignore that. That guy's first call out is just saying out loud that you want to do it is hard. And then I think one of the things that I struggled with was trying to figure out how I talk about all these different experiences in a very succinct way, right? So it took a long time, but I realized I really do just love questions. I love it. It is the thing that has been most consistent. It is why I was in public health. It is why I ended up in leadership within the McDonald's franchisee community and worked on menu innovation and all of these different things. And it is, I think, why I've ended up in certain roles within YPO with other leaders, because I really just love questions. And so bringing all of those different perspectives and vantage points to different companies as well, as you know, for me supervising, you know, 300 people, and what does that mean? And so my knowledge around HR and team building. And so it's learning how to talk about your experiences, and what is the commonality throughout all of your different life experiences, right? And then when you get into conversations with people, also being able to pivot, right? Because there are some folks, OH. Who really are fascinated, are going to be fascinated by the fact that I worked in like, menu innovation, right? Or that I led other franchisees in marketing, and so what does that mean around my understanding of marketing from a very, fairly unique perspective. But then, how do you coalesce other leaders to make those kinds of decisions together? Is of interest to someone else. So I think it's also listening, when you meet with people, to understand what it is that they may be looking for. I think it's probably the second thing. Once you kind of get out there and say, Okay, this is what I want to do, then you say, okay, as I talk with folks more, how do I adjust what's the through line? So what's the headline? But then how do I adjust the other pieces to resonate given the audience, I think is probably the second, and then I think the third is patience and understanding that these are not quick decisions, so that even if you know I don't get anybody to ask me to be on a board for a long time, right at some point, you just have to trust that I've put myself out there enough folks are getting to know who I am and understand me, that then the opportunities will come. And that can be really hard when people are used to being overachievers and used to having offers a lot, right? So this is a different beast and a different animal. And so understanding that just because I'm not where I'd like to be in my board service journey is not a is not an indictment on either my board readiness or who I am. It's just that we're not at the right fit yet. And so I think those are the three biggest lessons that I've learned in putting myself out there, and I've been on some startup boards. So you learn things from those, and you're like, Okay, I don't you know. So it's a journey. I think seeing board service as a content instead of a continuous journey is something that folks don't talk about.

Analiza: Christine, could you talk about fit? For example, what kind of company that you're looking at best fits your background? So that you can focus on where you can be. Of course, they want diversity, and we want diversity, but maybe there are specific boards you're most focused on.

Christine: I think, understand my first board, which was a local advisory board position for someone that I got to know through the network. I just asked, like, I was like, okay, so you asked me to be on your board. Why? Like, what is it? Why do you want me, right? And so why have you like, I'm gonna do it, because I'm just thrilled and want to get on the board. So I'm excited, yay. But you have this company that does digital marketing, and so I'm not like under and given the other board members who are true heavy hitters, I understand why they're on your board. But why do you want me? And so hearing from the CEO, the thing that they want my expertise on and want me to help them with, um, was really big. So I think sometimes just asking, right, why? And I think with Jocelyn and illumine, I understood why a couple of Starter boards that I served on that have since the companies have gone, you know, gone the way that lots of startups do. It was again, just stopping to ask, okay, I know what I think I bring, but why do you want me here? And why do you think my voice is important? Christine,

Analiza: I appreciate this conversation, both very diverse topics, franchises and board service. Okay, ready for lightning round questions. Christine,

Christine: I am.

Analiza: Chocolate or vanilla?

Christine: Chocolate.

Analiza: Cooking or takeout?

Christine: Cooking until I get tired of my own cooking and then take out.

Analiza: Climb a mountain or jump from a plane?

Christine: Neither truly, because I don't like heights, but if I had to pick one a plane, because it'd be over with more quickly.

Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Christine: Yes, because I'm of a certain age, wearing compression socks on long trips in the summertime. I usually go with compression socks and sandals, no less.

Analiza: How would you rate your karaoke skills on a skill of 1 to 10, 10 being Mariah Carey.

Christine: Negative three and painful for all those who might have to.

Analiza: What's a recent book you read?

Christine: I don't know that I've read anything recently that I'm just excited about. Stuff that I need to read, but I think the book that I'm going to go back to read that I love is this book called heavy by kaisi Lehman, and it's about family and truth and southerness in a way that resonates with my generation, because he grew up listening to outcast, and he's a little younger than me, but still, it's really it's beautiful and sad, and so just been thinking about that. And of the books I've got laying around, I think that's the one I want to pick back up. I got lots of books I should pick up.

Analiza: What's your favorite way to practice self care?

Christine: The one that is eluding me the most, but is the one that I am trying to work on, is sleep, because I think nothing else works if your sleep isn't right, and so I've got to fix that first.

Analiza: So what's a good professional development you've done?

Christine: Oh, so in addition to sleeping, I think both the Aspen Global Leadership Network, which is where we lost last, saw each other, and YPO has been good sustainers for me in terms of being around folks who challenged me to think differently and to remind me that all of us have journeys that are somewhat difficult and challenging at times, I think the professional development that has just increased the skill level for me is working with clear training academy and Lakita clear, because she did a conference called rock my story, and working with her as a coach on speaking, I think, has been the development thing that has impacted me the most from a skill, pure skill perspective.

Analiza: And what advice would you give your younger self?

Christine: That even when you get it wrong, it's still gonna be okay.

Analiza: And then where can we find you? Christine, like LinkedIn, anywhere else?

Christine: LinkedIn is probably primarily it. And then the mistakes over failure podcast is on Spotify Apple, where your podcasts are found. So mistakes over failure with Leslie Wingo and I is where I can be found, and it's on YouTube as well.

Analiza: And then last question, do you have a final ask recommendation or any parting thoughts to share?

Christine: So my ask is, why do you do this podcast?

Analiza: I do this podcast because I believe that your story and the stories of women of color are very important. I wish I'd had that as a younger person, professional, and it's really inspiring to see you, to see others do good in the world, and also that power is a good thing, that we can make change by rising and also lifting others. So I believe in stories, and I love the opportunity to talk with people like you. Thank you.

Christine: That's beautiful. I'm glad that you are telling stories and telling your own as you share. And so thank you for sharing yourself and your inquisitiveness and your goodness with all of us.

Analiza: Thanks so much. Christine, I admire you, and I really appreciate the stories and wisdom. Thank you. Thank you.

Christine: Thanks.

Analiza: Thank you so much for carving out time to hear today's podcast, three things before you go. First, if you found it helpful, please leave a five star review. Second, you can get a free chapter of my book, The Myths of Success: A Woman of Color’s Guide to Leadership at analizawolf.com/freechapter. And lastly, if you're interested in executive coaching, please reach out to me at analiza@analizawolf.com. Thank you so very much.