Analiza: Welcome to the Women of Color Rise podcast. I'm Analiza Quiroz Wolf, proud Filipino-American executive leadership coach and former CEO of a nonprofit and Captain in the U.S. Air Force. I'm also the author of The Myth of Success: A Woman of Color's Guide to Leadership. It's based on the lessons learned by many women of color leaders, including those on this podcast. We talk with successful CEOs and C-suite women leaders of color and learn about their leadership journeys. I'm on a mission to support having more diverse leaders at the table. If you're a woman or a woman of color who wants to sit at that table, you're in the right place. Now let's get into today's show. Hi, everyone. I'm excited to be with Johanne Morne today. She is the Executive Deputy Commissioner for the New York State Department of Health. She has had a long career in public health. Before this, she was a Deputy Commissioner for the Office of Health Equity and Human Rights for the New York State Department of Health. And throughout this long career, her priorities have always been the same: advancing equity, social justice, and trauma-informed care. Johanne, I'm so excited to have this conversation. Thanks for being here.

Johanne: Well, thanks to you for the invitation. Really glad to join you.

Analiza: Johanne, we talk a lot about identity, and I'm curious, how do you identify and how has that shaped your career path?

Johanne: Sure. I want to start by saying that I think identity is something that, at least for me, in my particular scenario, has ebbed and flowed over the years. And one of the things people say to me all the time is, "So I'm 51." And I'm like, "I love being 51." And people say, "Why?" And I say because it feels like one of the most significant times in my life where I feel my authentic self, right? I'm, to a degree, unapologetic. I am who I am, and I'm confident in that. And so I am confident when I talk about who I am and what makes up my background. I was really fortunate. I was blessed. I was raised by two really dynamic people, both immigrants to the U.S. My mother from the West Indies, a small island by the name of Dominica, and my father from France. And so I grew up in a world of accents and culture and diversity. I identify and certainly recognize that I'm a first-generation American. I am a person of color. I am a woman who has been very fortunate to see so many aspects of the globe and the world, and appreciate who people are and the traditions and cultures they bring. And so I have many titles, both professional and personal, and I hope that I do them all justice to the best of my ability. Analiza: Beautiful. I have to go, Johanne, to this idea of 51 and how you're boldly like, "I love this stage," because often we think, "Oh, darn it, the back half of life, the midlife crisis, and then the back half of life—it’s all like a downward doomsday." And yet you stand here as a woman of color and say, "I love this age. I love who I am now, and I'm stepping into it." I want to ask you, I know it's never one thing, but if you could point to a shift—something you believed about yourself or something you dropped that was a bold belief—could you point to anything that helped you get into this power? "I’m 51, proud. Here I go."

Johanne: Yeah, I think there are a number of things. First of all, I have to point to my family, my friends, right? And so having a really tight support circle and being surrounded by people that you know have loved me through all the forms of me. But I also want to point to life experience. At the age of 42, I was diagnosed with breast cancer, and I was one of those classic situations, right? I went, I scheduled a mammogram—it was October, right, which is the month where we talk all about the pink ribbons and breast cancer awareness and prevention. There were other individuals who should have had their screenings as well. And so in an effort to motivate others to go and get a screening, I scheduled my screening. And I knew that there was something significant that was going to be happening for me because, during the screening, the technician said, if not once, at least 20 times, "A lot of times, people get a call on Monday." So I waited for Monday, and sure enough, the call came. And so my diagnosis came, and that journey started. It was also at a time in my life professionally where there was a bit of transition that was happening. It was supposed to be a dynamic transition that really sort of took me to the next level of my career. And so I had to, in that moment, think about, "How do I prioritize my personal experience in my medical journey and the professional experience that I had worked really hard toward and wanted to pursue?" And I asked the question, "Is it an either-or?" And I decided, "No." I decided that cancer impacted my life enough that if I allowed it to be an either-or, it would be too significant a loss and a resentment for me, and so I pursued both. And I’m not going to say every day was easy, but again, I had some tremendous support. I went through the cancer journey. I'm 10 years cancer-free. One of the things about cancer is a lot of times we focus on the cancer, right? And so there's a thought that if we have the surgery, we have the treatment, we’re cancer-free, then okay, that’s completed. But what we don’t talk about with cancer is that it’s always, always present to some degree, whether it’s psychological, emotional, or through other forms of physical manifestation. So for some who perhaps have chemotherapy, they may be experiencing lifelong neuropathy. For some who, like myself, had radiation, they may be experiencing lifelong other aches and pains that come with that. So I say that to make the point that when you have someone in your life, in your midst, who has that diagnosis, know that for that person, it doesn’t end at the point of being told you are cancer-free. What that did for me was it built resilience and gave me courage. I think that in my life, I have always worked from a place of integrity, and as you noted in my background, looking at those opportunities of social justice. I think what having that cancer diagnosis did was really strengthen for me that, like, I can be louder, and I can be more fully present, and that that’s okay. And I can agree that at times, I’m not going to always agree with those around the table, but that my space at the table isn’t any smaller because of that. And those are things that I think, from the point of diagnosis to where I sit today, really grew in me. It strengthened me and gave me the ability to recognize that I have a purpose and a role, and I have to continue to pursue that, even during the hardest times of life. “We’ll move away from it. It’s no longer a priority.” And so part of what I think about is the idea that in those spaces, there wasn’t enough of a connection made to how this is not just a nice-to-have but a must-have for the fabric of who we are, whether it's a corporation, a government agency, or a non-profit organization. And so, when I talk to folks about this, I often say, “You know, if you think about DEI and equity work as something that’s like your favorite dessert, right?”—and for me, that’s a slice of chocolate cake—“What happens when you don’t have it? You’re missing something sweet and essential, and your day feels incomplete.” Now imagine trying to live your life without acknowledging or addressing inequities. It’s like having the ingredients for cake but refusing to bake it. What good does that do anyone?” And the humor often lands because people can relate to the simplicity of the analogy. But then it also opens the door for deeper reflection about how, if we’re not building equity into the structure and mission of what we’re doing, we’re not really building at all. We’re just pretending.

Analiza: I love that analogy so much because it’s both light and profound. It reminds people that equity isn’t just about checking boxes but about making something complete—something better for everyone. Thank you for sharing that. And I appreciate how you bring humor into spaces where it's unexpected but so needed. I think this is one of the ways we can all learn to play a bigger game: by making these hard truths accessible and actionable.

Johanne: Absolutely. It’s about balancing the seriousness of our work with the humanity that drives it. If we can’t do that, we risk losing people along the way. And as I said earlier, hope is essential, and so is connection. Both are key to moving us forward together.

Analiza: Johanne, I want to talk about hope because it's sad. We really need more hope. And whatever happens with politics or the world and a lot of tragedy, you do a lot of trauma-informed care as part of your legacy and what you want to bring to the world. What does it mean? Because it's part of health, right? Not just physical health, mental health, community, and you talked about that as one of the reasons that you were so resilient, to rely back on your faith and community. Can you talk about health in your daily life? How do you bring that as a leader for a huge organization? How does that look in Johanne's leadership for your people and also for yourself to remember that there's hope in this hard work that you do?

Johanne: Oh, yeah, absolutely, yeah. No, you have to have hope. You know, again, in my opinion, if we don't have hope, then more often than not, you see despair. And when you are given the opportunity to sit in seats that can impact change, you not only have to have hope within yourself, right, remembering that we, too, are human, but you have to be able to exhibit that hope for other people. You know, I think it's really easy for us to fall to a space where we say, like, ah, people are apathetic. Oh, people don't care. Oh, people, I don't buy into any of that. You know, the same way I don't buy into when people say, like, oh, well, that individual is hard to reach. No, they're not. That individual isn't hard to reach; either A, that individual is not in a space where they're ready to be reached, which is their decision, or B, we're not doing what the individuals need in order for them to have access to us. Right? We make assumptions. It's easy to say, "No, there's health access everywhere across New York State." There are a lot of health facilities across New York State. That doesn't mean they're accessible to everyone for any number of reasons. So, what do you do? Number one, I'm a big, big proponent of EQ. Emotional Intelligence, in my opinion, is one of the most significant ways in which a leader can lead in a sustainable way. Can develop organizational culture and expectation, caring about and considering the impact of the work that we do on the people that we do it with on a daily basis, has to be a part of the leadership platform in order for us to succeed, and especially after responding to a pandemic. The pandemic brought significant change into the spaces, at least that I sit in, right in healthcare and in public health. Significant change as far as our understanding of how quickly, in spite of all the work that we do to make sure that we create infrastructure for care, how quickly that can collapse. It demonstrated how quickly a workforce can be transitioned, thinking about the number of people who left our fields for both personal and professional reasons. And it also demonstrated our resiliency because very quickly we started to do things we had never done before. I always say COVID made the impossible possible. COVID had many things that we can point to that were devastating, but it also made the impossible possible. Things that were like, "No, we can't do that," we had to do. And it turned out to be good. A really simple, simple, simple example: how many people listening today now work remotely, whether it's 100%, 50%, whatever percent? Many of you were in spaces that once said, "Absolutely not. The work cannot be done remotely." It made the impossible possible, and that's a very simple example of how that was made. But looking as a leader, making sure that as much time is spent on considering the needs of the team as we spend on thinking about how we advance in our work and in our outcomes is significant.

Analiza: People want to feel valued. I mean, the people that we serve are important, but as important are the people who we get to serve, as leaders, and I love this holistic look, because it doesn't. Who's more important? Or are you being selfish, when actually all of us in this work together are, yes, grinding it out, but also having a ton of hope and support for each other that allows us to sustain because often this is like, one way which, you know, right now, in a culture you gotta burn through. And I'm like, actually, there's another way to do it, where we can care for ourselves, our personal lives, and it's hopeful. And I appreciate COVID was hard, you know, because you were leading through it, and yet, there were some good things that came out of it, including this ability to, as mothers, as parents, as caregivers, as just people, to be able to have flexibility to care for ourselves and our families. Now I appreciate that so much.

Johanne: Perspective is huge in this conversation. I say it all the time. Everything is temporary. What's good is temporary. What's bad is temporary. Me in the seat is temporary. Life is temporary, right? Some people have a lifetime of 100-plus years, beautiful. Other people have shorter lifespans. It's all temporary. So in that temporary space, let's maximize all the things that we can do that can actually result in good.

Analiza: That is a mic drop. Johanne, thank you so much for this and just empowering ourselves to feel like whatever age we are and whatever life circumstance, we can see that it is temporary. And so how do we embrace the beautiful? Because if we don't, gosh darn, there's darkness to it. So let's turn to the light. Bring our teams to light, bring your community to light. So appreciate this leadership style. Johanne, are you ready for lightning round questions?

Johanne: Let's do it.

Analiza: Okay, chocolate or vanilla?

Johanne: Vanilla.

Analiza: Cooking or takeout?

Johanne: Takeout.

Analiza: Climb a mountain or jump from a plane?

Johanne: Climb a mountain.

Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Johanne: No.

Analiza: How would you rate your karaoke skills on a scale of one to 10,10 being Mariah Carey?

Johanne: Oh, I'm gonna give me, you said Mariah Carey, a 10. It's all about presence, all about presence.

Analiza: What's a book you read recently or in the past that you like?

Johanne: Well, unfortunately, I don't read as much as I would love to. Of course, I'm blanking on the title, but I'm going to tell you the author's name, and that author is Wally Lamb. Wally Lamb wrote a book about twin twins, and, my goodness, I'm blanking on the name. But if it's not been read, read it.

Analiza: I will write it down. I'll find it, don't worry. But I love the recommendation. Johanne, tell me what is one of the professional developments you've done that you've loved?

Johanne: Actually, I'm so glad we're doing this this week. Just this week, I had the chance to speak on it. It's a minority leadership program that is a program originated by NASTAD. So NASTAD is a national organization that represents HIV, hepatitis C and other public health areas, particularly in the advancement of health equity. They facilitate this program, and it is for individuals who are identifying as persons of color and working to one, help and discuss some of the challenges of being a person of color within our organizations, but to really help to discuss what's needed in order for advancement and leadership.

Analiza: We need that. We need that I love, that you're advocating for that. Johanne, what advice would you give your younger self?

Johanne: Oh, my goodness, I say this to myself all the time. I would have told my younger self to calm down. Calm down, down. Like, just stop. Everything's okay. You know, I think about my younger self and how I would just, like, just really make myself overwhelmed with wanting perfection, right or and wanting to do it all and be all these things to all these people. And you know what? I probably wouldn't change anything on my journey, because if I did, I wouldn't be where I am today. However, I definitely tell myself, calm down, stay out late, that extra hour, don't worry about getting up to have to go to work or go to school or whatever it is you had to do.

Analiza: Beautiful advice. And then, , where can we find you? Like LinkedIn? Anywhere else?

Johanne: Sure,I'm on many of the social media platforms, but I am definitely on LinkedIn. And also the New York State Department of Health has multiple areas in social media, including Facebook, Instagram, X, otherwise known as Twitter and LinkedIn.

Analiza: Great. And then last question, do you have a final ask recommendation or any parting thoughts to share?

Johanne: I want to tell everyone to or encourage everyone to take them. Risk. You know it's cliche, but we know that it's true. If we don't ask, we won't know the answer, and that means we won't know what opportunity could have been when you think about doing things, and it's like now that just seems so far out of reach. Maybe reverse that by saying, so let me see what's in reach, and let me see what can be available to me. I'm always astounded. I came to the state government with this. Just briefly. I came to the state government. I applied for a position and never thought I would get hired. I didn't think state governments hired community people. I got the job. I got a provisional appointment. I was supposed to be here for two years. It's 18 years later. Through those years, I have advanced, and I say all of that to say it's not because of anything I did that was so magical. There are incredibly brilliant people all over this globe. I say it to say that I never would have imagined where I sit today when I was working in my community based organizations, on the street, doing the work, doing the outreach. And I value those experiences. I value this experience, and I imagine that I'll have more experiences in my journey as I move forward. So you know, it is a never say never.

Analiza: Beautiful. Johanne, thank you so much for your stories, your wisdom, bringing hope back into the world, especially now. I appreciate you so much, and thank you for your time.

Johanne: Thank you so much, and thanks for creating the space for these conversations. We need this right now. We need this always, actually, and so it's an incredible way to connect. Thank you.

Analiza: Thank you so much for carving out time to hear today's podcast. Read things before you go first. If you found it helpful, please leave a five star review. Second, you can get a free chapter of my book, The Myth of Success, a woman of color's guide to leadership at Annalisa wolf.com/free dot com, slash free chapter. And lastly, if you're interested in executive coaching, please reach out to me at analiza@analizawolf.com. Thank you so very much.