Analiza: Welcome to the Women of Color Rise podcast. I'm Analiza Quiroz Wolf, proud Filipino-American executive leadership coach and former CEO of a nonprofit and Captain in the U.S. Air Force. I'm also the author of The Myth of Success: A Woman of Color's Guide to Leadership. It's based on the lessons learned by many women of color leaders, including those on this podcast. We talk with successful CEOs and C-suite women leaders of color and learn about their leadership journeys. I'm on a mission to support having more diverse leaders at the table. If you're a woman or a woman of color who wants to sit at that table, you're in the right place. Now let's get into today's show.

I am so excited to be with Veronica Conforme today. Veronica is the co-founder,Co-Founder and Co-CEO of Greenhouse E3, before that, she led the UP Education Network in Massachusetts. She served, before that, as the Chancellor of the Education Achievement Authority of Michigan. She's had so many different roles in New York City as well, where I live. She was the Chief Operating Officer at the New York City Department of Education. I mean, $23 billion budget, that's incredible. Veronica, it is wonderful to meet you. Finally, I've heard so much about you from a mentor of mine. Thank you so much for being here.

Veronica: Yeah, absolutely happy, happy to be here, happy to connect with you, and you know, share what I can share with you guys.

Analiza: Veronica, I'd love to talk about identity, particularly racial identity. How you identify, and how that has shaped you in your career.

Veronica: I think it does to me, you know, I think especially in the work that I do, which is, I coach a lot of executive leaders. It comes up in almost every aspect of leadership.

Oftentimes we are driven by we use the Enneagram as part of our coaching process and sort of self discovery and and when I think about that as a framework about who I am and how I show up as a leader, I I think About being the child of an immigrant of immigrant parents in New York City, who arrived New York City in 1968 and I think about being raised in the Bronx.

I think about my summers going to Ecuador, South America. I think about the community that I was, that I was born and raised in, which was predominantly African American and Puerto Rican, and my family was from South America, where we were, like, the Only Ecuadorians in the community. I yeah, I think identity, you know, really is multifaceted and has a lot of layers and but it inevitably comes up in everything you know I do, obviously a woman and Latina and you know, and I already told you where I grew up, so yeah, I think it has a lot of layers.

Analiza: So as you were choosing careers, and even as you made different moves, how did your identity show up in your leadership?

Veronica: Yeah, I am. I graduated college, and as a first generation college graduate in my family, and my father, being a good immigrant, said to me, really think you should be an accountant and you should be working in an accounting firm. My father was a butcher in the meatpacking industry, you know, like, that's going to be like the right thing for you to and, you know, in my I think New York rebellious fashion, very much built by like, the eight personality that I am. I was like, No, I'm gonna go change the world, and I'm gonna work for the people of New York City who need me the most. And that's where I want my talents to be.

So my first job out of college was working in domestic violence you know, in a domestic violence program for victims of domestic violence and in a program also who were educated and did group work with men who abused women. And I spent three years in that type of organization, recontros, you know, managing programs in service of children and women who were victims of domestic violence, and family abuse. So that certainly shaped my perspective and what I wanted to do.

But I always wanted to serve family and children most in need, and then, and then I went to grad school, I went to Columbia, and, you know, try to figure out, like, what am I going to do to, you know, approach this from a variety of different lens, and pretend, potentially even think about policies that could help. And so I went to the public administration school there, and spent three years figuring out, you know what, what all that meant, and how I could impact the world from a different perspective, I also felt like I was catching things on the back end, and I really, you know, I knew how important education had been in my life, and how transformative it had been, and it had been at the center of what my my parents really pushed and how I wanted to do more in education. So had some courses in education and focused on education, and then in 2003 got, you know, a chance to come join the New York City public schools to help redesign what was happening and reinvent and reimagine with a mayor that had just taken over the school system for the first time from 40 disparate districts that existed in New York City,

Analiza: Veronica, you have this eight Enneagram. And by the way, can you just summarize what that means for the Enneagram folks out there who might know it totally or not

Veronica: I know it's usually a very strong willed personality. It means you are driving towards the things that you want to achieve. It's a strong inclination to not want to be controlled by other people, not you know if you have a strong sense of justice. You don't like other people to be oppressed like in front of you. It's, it's, it's way more detailed than that for us to get into it. But I think you get this just because many people in leading or education organizations happen to have this profile also, or many people leading other sorts of what I would say, social justice or social organizations also have this, this type of Enneagram.

Analiza: Thanks for sharing, Veronica, it helps me better understand AIDS. And you, and I'm seeing this trend. You are this young person who wants to change the world. You try different roles. You get additional information, and you say, let me go to the root, which is schools and education. And so you take a big job, and you, you know, become CEO. And so I want to, I want to understand that.

Veronica: So that was like nine years, not immediately.

Analiza: Not immediately, but you take on these hard jobs and hard tasks, and you have this strong sense of social justice, and I want you to just if you're looking back at your career, and you can say to yourself, Wow, I have a through line, not just of social justice, but but leadership moves mindsets. I'm curious if there's one or two types of, really advice, like, as you look back and you share your your your own journey, what have been one or two leadership moves that have helped you, not just have had impact on people, but also helped you grow in terms of your your influence and The role that you can, you can take on,

Veronica: Yeah, um, I am, I believe deeply in mentorship and development of people. I think I was, I was really. Really blessed in education, which, let's be clear, I entered, I entered education from the human resources, finance, operational side of the house. And you know how, with, with, you know, sort of clear objectives, like I, I grew up in the New York City public schools. I attended New York City public schools, K to 12. I understood the impact that it had on the community, on a community like the one I grew up in the South Bronx. I understood the inequity deeply, and had the privilege to go study what it looked like in policies. And so I was really, I think you have to be really clear about what you're trying to achieve. Like, I want to disrupt that I understand that I'm a disruptor and I want and I feel like if we do things differently, there will be different outcomes for the communities we're trying to serve.

And so I was, I think you have to be clear about what you're trying to achieve, just like my dad was super clear about you should be an attempt and work in these types of firms. And I was like, and I'm that's not what I'm going to do, but I was clear about what I wanted to do. And and, so I think that having that clarity of objective then allows you to then pull in people and be open to people who want to help, because you're going to find a lot of people along the ways and being willing to like, share and and listen and engage with folks who you deeply respect and who are oftentimes willing to pour in. And so I was very lucky to have found along the way mentors and advisors who helped me navigate, you know, my next move offered me opportunities like exposing me to things I had never been exposed to. I was not from the education sector.

That's not even where I spent my first three years out of college. Like, you know, I didn't come up from Teach for America, you know, but I, I had people who were like, Oh, you, you could contribute in very meaningful ways. And so the things that you don't know, we can teach you, you know, we can. We can help you develop those skills. We can help you and get perspective and understanding and being open to that, I think is the other thing that I feel is really, has been really beneficial for me, my career.

Analiza: So I hear you say that you value people and that you can't go it alone. It's not enough to say, here's where I'm headed. Here's my mission. I need others, first, others who might come into my life. I think professionally, right? Veronica, sometimes we might get lucky with a boss who happens to be a great one who cares about our development, or sometimes it's haphazard, but in either way, we've got to be open to those relationships and also open to new perspectives. So I want to ask about this, because sometimes people say, yeah, I get that. I get that. I want that, but it's hard. It's hard to find a mentor and let alone a sponsor who will help you give advice and actually track and say, Come join my team. I want to give you this opportunity. I'm going to put your name up, and so I want to talk about this, how, and I know you run an organization that supports this, and we'll talk about that soon, but if you don't have that, what are ways in which we could get those amazing mentors and sponsors. How might we develop those relationships?

Veronica: Yeah, I am a big believer that those things come out of work you do and that you bring so as a leader, as a leader in the education space, you already bring a lot of contributions and assets. And if you are clear, one of my first jobs was to help to develop principles to actually use their budgets. That was one of my first jobs at the doe. What do they think about budgets? Because this was all centralized before it was done for them. You were told, here's 50 pencils and 10 teachers. And now. Go do school and, and we were flipping the perspective of like, how, how do you, like, think of a budget and start to be creative about like, shaping it and figuring out what's the kind of programming that kids and the family in the community you serve needs, and how do you have more decision making on that, and how you know, and, and, and there's some rules associated with that, and there's some new skills associated that.

So I was very deeply involved in both helping to create that and then training and developing leaders around that. And, and I understood that what had been done before, was not serving the community. You know, keeping like where I come from in mind, was not serving the community that I grew up in well, because those families didn't have great school choices in the neighborhood I grew up in, and I then needed to do something different, and I needed to really push to say what we have done hasn't worked. So we're going to try new things.

That way of working then attracts other people who work that way too, and that then matched me with one of my first instructional mentors who was like, Oh, I see what you're doing. You should, you should join our group over here, but you, but you start with work. In that work, people will see what you're contributing and your perspective on it, and say, Okay, we want, we want some of that over here. So let's start to collaborate. And in that work I have always been, and there flourishes the mentorship. It's not outside for not for me, or for other people. Perhaps it's another way. But for me, it has always been like, through the work and through the like alignment of like, this is what I believe, and here's where we're headed, getting people who are like, I'm interested in in some of that, and then you can come and get you, because it's a symbiotic relationship. You're not only pouring into me. I am bringing something to the table too.

Analiza: I want to underline that, because I have people sometimes just cold call and say, can you be my mentor? And I'm not to say I, you know, decline just because I don't want to. But it's strange, because it feels like we don't have the context or any sort of beginning of a relationship. And so I appreciate Veronica that this is practical in your work. Do a good job also, hopefully your work is connected to your mission, your values, your being clear, clear and transparent about what those are.

Analiza: Yeah, I love that, because you can be yourself, and therefore doing good work attracts other people who think similarly, have similar values and will want your particular expertise. And also it can be synergistic, not gimme, gimme, gimme, but can we, might we be in a relationship where we're supporting each other? So I appreciate it, and it's very real. Often, you know, we get this, like, get a mentor. I'm like, Okay, well, how? So this is such a beautiful, tactical, practical way of doing it. Thanks, Veronica. So this leads me, Veronica, to talking about your organization, and I'm a fan of what you're doing, and so grateful about your mission. So please, can you share what the mission is, what you stand for, and how you do it?

Veronica: Yeah, we were greenhouse is really an e3 is an organization about supporting and developing CEOs in the charter sector. We we run National Fellowship cohort, cohort experiences, or groups of leaders who are either new to the CEO role or who are aspiring to be a CEO or an executive director of a charter network as big as 40 schools to as small as two schools, because that level of leadership and executive Management of a system of schools is unique and important, and we think is one of the highest levers to students success and to achieve the dreams that we all have for kids. That's why we came into this work and so we do both these now. National fellowships. We do executive coaching. We work with boards, but it's really about setting up the leaders well as they transition either into this role or already in this role in sort of recent times.

We also do work with folks who you know have founded a successful school and now are building towards expanding and becoming a network. And in some ways, I think this was really a thought process and a desire for me and James and others who were involved in the launch of this to say, like, what would we have wanted when we started and didn't it didn't exist, and we had a lot of those. Where do we come across some real bad pain points that might have been helpful if we had some more support in that moment, especially in the first couple of years of leading an organization as complex as a school system.

Analiza: Veronica, you're speaking to the choir here. I wish I had had your organization and the cohort and the coaching, just to provide me with support when I was solo trying to figure it out and doing it during COVID. So I'm grateful, Veronica, that you have this amazing organization and that you yourself are coaching leaders. What a gift. I did want to shout out James Wilcox, who is a co-founder with you, and also a long time speaking to Veronica, what you have shared here in terms of advice, an amazing mentor, an amazing friend, who we met through shared connection and mission. And that's, you know, it's now a very personal relationship, but it absolutely wouldn't have happened had we, you know, not shown up to the work. And I actually, broadly, Veronica said, Here's what I stand for. Might I learn from you, and so I'm so appreciative to have James as a link for us, and then Veronica to you be doing this work, Veronica, I want to talk about your Lightning Rounds. These are fun facts about you. Are you ready?

Veronica: Sure.

Analiza: Okay, first question, chocolate or vanilla?

Veronica: Chocolate.

Analiza Cooking or takeout?

Veronica: Cooking.

Analiza: Okay, climb a mountain or jump from a plane?

Veronica: Climb a hill.

Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Veronica: No.

Analiza: How would you rate your karaoke skills on a scale of one to 10,10 being Mariah Carey.

Veronica: Oh, wow. Five.

Analiza: What's the recent book you read? Or what's a good book?

Veronica: Either win the defector. Defectors, by Paula Ramos

Analiza: And what is your favorite way to practice self care?

Veronica: Really, unplug, travel, get away. Like, no, no part time work, no taking calls, like, really, really disconnected, disconnecting and taking a break with, like, my husband or friends or whoever I'm going away with. I'm, you know, we work really hard and intensely in these roles, and I often think about it as like deep sacrifice to our personal health, but then, then I think of these intervals as like deep sacrifice, but then sort of restoration. And it's worked for me. It works for the way I work, but really, really unplugging and being, oftentimes it requires being in a new space where I'm completely consumed by either the culture or some aspects of the beautiful environment that I'm like. I need to just be here and unplugging.

Analiza: It's beautiful. Veronica, what's a good professional development you've done?

Veronica: We just did one together. We did the Pahara woman of color CEO event. That was a really good one. It was like, that was one of the ones that I'm like restorative on the restorative side, for sure, just to be in community, but also in the beautiful surroundings that we were at. But you know, like I was highly influenced by the Broad Superintendents Academy, my Bucha experience, I think all of these things helped shape what. What we do, what we do is very specific to a role. It's very specific to competencies around leading a specific type of organization. But I'm deeply influenced by many of these other many other experiences that I've had.

Analiza: What advice would you give your younger self?

Veronica: Be better to your body, be kinder to your body. I think one of the characteristics we were just talking about is being innate. One of the characteristics of an eight is that you feel you can endure just about anything, and that means you don't take care of your body. And I should have, I should have been a little better at that.

Analiza: And then last or second to last question, Where can we find you? Like LinkedIn, anywhere else?

Veronica: LinkedIn, Facebook, I think. But mostly LinkedIn, I am not a big social media person. Let's play with LinkedIn. Oh, definitely.

Analiza: LinkedIn, okay. And then last question, what is your final ask recommendations or parting thoughts to share in?

Veronica: So m

any people that I coach now and that I have the privilege of working with and seeing their learning in an alert, you know, in a cohort, in a learning environment. I really want people to know that they have everything that they need already inside of them. They have all of the strength and intelligence and passion and care inside of them. It is oftentimes the work of this, these types of engagements and, you know, and type of professional development and interactions, is the job to just allow them to shine through and take off some of the layers that we've accumulated over our life, so that, so that those things can can rise in us.

Analiza: Wow. Veronica, so soul filling. I am deeply appreciative of you for myself, but also for our listeners. Thank you so much for this wisdom, your stories and all of the uplifting that like we're enough, in fact, we're more than enough and we're ready.

Veronica: That's right. Thank you. Analiza.

Analiza: Thank you so much for carving out time to hear today's podcast. 3 things before you go. First, if you found it helpful, please leave a five star review. Second, you can get a free chapter of my book, The Myth of Success: A Woman of Color's Guide to Leadership at analizawolf.com/freechapter. And lastly, if you're interested in executive coaching, please reach out to me at analiza@analizawolf.com. Thank you so very much