Analiza: Welcome to the Women of Color Rise podcast. I'm Analiza Quiroz Wolf, proud Filipino-American executive leadership coach and former CEO of a nonprofit and Captain in the U.S. Air Force. I'm also the author of The Myth of Success: A Woman of Color's Guide to Leadership. It's based on the lessons learned by many women of color leaders, including those on this podcast. We talk with successful CEOs and C-suite women leaders of color and learn about their leadership journeys. I'm on a mission to support having more diverse leaders at the table. If you're a woman or a woman of color who wants to sit at that table, you're in the right place. Now let's get into today's show. I am thrilled to be talking to Sonita Lontoh today. She's an independent board director with expertise in innovation, digital transformation and climate. She currently serves on public boards including Sun run and true blue. She's an advisor to sway ventures, and she's had over three decades of diverse global career senior leadership positions at places like HP, Siemens, PG and E entrepreneurial VC backed Silicon Valley tech companies, and she's been recognized by the White House, the US State Department. We're going to talk about this big award she's also getting from the Asian Hall of Fame, the women in manufacturing Hall of Fame. And she and I actually know each other, because not only is she a graduate of MIT and Berkeley, but also Northwestern Kellogg School of Management. So it's so nice to be reunited with a fellow classmate, Sonita, thank you so much for being here.

Sonita: Oh, thank you so much for having me. Analiza, and as you said, so happy to be able to reconnect with you,

Analiza: Sonita, you've had such a diverse and interesting career. Can you tell us about yourself, your identity and your journey, and maybe a couple of the lessons you've learned along the way?

Sonita: I'm gonna just look back at my journey and maybe share kind of like the big chapters that I felt kind of had been quite pivotal in my career, right the early years and then the corporate years, and today I'm in what they call portfolio life. So let's just start with the early years. So I'm originally from Jakarta, Indonesia, and I think a lot of people may not realize but Indonesia is actually a big country, about 280 million people and 90% Muslim. But when I was growing up there, I was what they would call, like kind of a triple minority, because I'm female, it's a very male oriented society. I'm also ethnic Chinese. I'm not native Indonesian, and I'm Catholic, and Indonesia 90% Muslim, and like many kinds of Chinese people in Indonesia, my parents, they own businesses, and I guess with that, I was fortunate that they had the resources to focus me on education, send me to schools in the US. But then it kind of afforded me like a new adventure, because when I came to the US during my teenage years, I had to learn, of course, a new language and also a new culture, right? I guess, like from these early years, the lesson learned that I have is looking back, actually, I have always been a minority somehow, be it in Indonesia being female Chinese Catholic, or here in the United States, being female, Asian American, right? And my career in Silicon Valley. But the lesson that I learned from this experience is that I think I never look at my minority status as a disadvantage and Alisa, and on the contrary, I think having had these experiences actually enabled me to have a much more global perspective and diverse perspective because of the life experiences. And then I guess moving on from that, those early years to the corporate years, and I guess I have had all kinds of experiences. I've started my career, actually, right after college as an entrepreneur. Not many people know this, but I started an online game company with two of my classmates, and I think we were a little bit too early, maybe, but we were able to do that for a couple years. Eventually sold it to a much larger competitor, and then I decided to go back to graduate school, and that's really where we met. And it was really, I think, after graduate school that I had a little bit of a guiding principles with regards to where I wanted to go in my career, not really clear with regards to the industry or the functional areas, but my two guiding principles were, I kind of felt that I really loved the intersection of technology and new business models. And then the other guiding principle was, I kind of wanted to work in an industry that, what I call, had that additional factor. And what I meant by that is, sure, at the end of the day, as a business, you're selling something, right? You have to grow the business. But I would love to work in an industry that, in addition to business, there is kind of like that purpose in whatever that you're doing. And I guess I have been quite fortunate in the past 25 years, so I have had the opportunity to grow my career at the intersection of, yes, new technology, new business, but also, I think industries that matter, namely in energy and in digital manufacturing. And I guess what I learned from those corporate years is maybe when you're early in your career, you're focusing a lot more on yourself, but then as you kind of grow throughout your career, you realize that satisfaction actually comes from doing that intersection of what you love, in my case, technology and business what you're good at. I guess I was pretty good at starting new businesses that leverage technology. But at the end of the day, you also want to combine that with your purpose, right? And then about two years ago, I entered full time portfolio life. I guess what they call portfolio life just means you no longer have a nine to five. You're not an operator, but that doesn't mean you're completely retired do nothing. And so in my portfolio life today, I serve, as you mentioned, on two public boards, one private. Actually, I'm also serving on one of my university boards, and also as an advisor to a VC firm. And I guess the lesson learned from this portfolio life, I think I find it very satisfying, because you can still contribute, but not by doing, but by advising and governing. And also, I think as a board member and an advisor, you have a lot of opportunity to help the management, management team, to coach them, to guide them, to help develop them. And I find that very satisfying.

Analiza: Neither the arc of your career, from self to industry impact and now to the larger society, is beautiful because it allows us to see that it doesn't have to be you. The whole world isn't resting on one person. You can actually amplify your impact when you have these principles and the self knowledge that you gained by taking risks early and then allowing yourself to have these guiding principles, I think, has been setting you up for this career, which you're pretty early to the portfolio life. So I will talk about that, but before we do, I want to talk about purpose. You have been an ardent advocate for increasing the number of women in technology leadership. It's rare to see the types of leadership experiences you've had, especially as a woman, an Asian, American woman, so how do you think we can increase the number of women leaders in technology?

Sonita: Yeah, this is another great question, Analiza, and I guess I'll answer this question, both from the supply side and also the demand side, right? So let's talk about the supply. I think it has to start pretty early. I think from a young age, girls need to know that, hey, being good in science, in math, it's actually pretty cool, and it's not just for the boys, right? And so in order to do that, I think just the community, like parents and teachers, need to encourage girls to study math and science from a young age, and for girls to kind of realize that it's actually, it's actually cool to be good in math and science. It's interesting that there's this study by the Society of Women Engineers that they said in grade school, about 70% of boys said that STEM science, technology and math is their favorite subject, but only about 30% of girls that science and math is their favorite subject. And then when you go to college, when you look at the top five states in the United States with the highest graduation rate for female in engineering and STEM degrees, the number is pretty low too, only about 20% and so that's why I feel like we have to kind of address this, both from the supply side and then, and then we can talk about the demand side later. I think women in STEM also need role models that are good in math and science, not just the aspirational one. I think you need those. Of course, you need to see a female who has won a Nobel Prize, or like the CEO of a big tech company. You need those things. But you also need those that are more practical, basically people who are just maybe two or three steps ahead of you. If you just graduate from college, your next step is not going to be the CEO of the big tech companies. I think girls or women also need role models that are both aspirational and what I would call practical. And then last but not least, it is just from the employer's side. I think companies need to be committed and intentional in not just hiring, but also, more importantly, I think creating the environment that women can actually develop themselves as leaders. And I feel like one of the ways you can do this, of course, it has to have the commitment all the way from the board to this CEO to the C suite. But I think what's important is like, when, when companies have this leadership development program. I'm just going to call it that way. It shouldn't be like this women leadership development program. I think it should be part of their overall leadership development program, so that the developing women actually become kind of more of a natural part of the company's leadership development program, the full championship and sponsorship of the CEO and the C suite and the whole company.

Analiza: I love embracing Sonita of both supply and demand, and being able to have girls and women who are interested, and then places to land, at companies who welcome and grow them deliberately as part of the overall strategy that's so beautiful. I want to congratulate you, Sunita, on being an inductee to not only the Asian American Hall of Fame, but also the US women in manufacturing Hall of Fame, Hall of Fame. So can you tell us a bit more about what they are and what influence they've had in your work?

Sonita: It's an honor, but I'll just share an interesting story. So when I got, I think before I got on the Asian Hall of Fame, I was inducted in 2017 but of course, when they contacted me to ask whether I would accept it. I did little research, and I felt like, wow. So before my year, it seemed like the organization focused more on, let's just call it, more like celebrity type of Asian Americans, because you look at the inductive people like Bruce Lee and Christy Yamaguchi, these are kind of more famous celebrities, right? And actually, in my class too, I was inducted with three other Asian American one was Johnny Damon. Some people may or may not know, but he was like the former Red Sox and Yankee player, two time world champion. So he had like two rings. And then Daniel Day, Kim, who's like an actor in Hollywood, right? But then there was also me, who was like a slightly more normal person from that background. And then another lady, also kind of a little bit more normal, like me, but she had won many patents. And the reason I shared this with you and Elisa, because I felt like after my time, I felt a little bit of an obligation from that experience to be an advocate for other Asian American women in business and technology. You don't have to be like a celebrity to be inducted, but you can be a normal person, of course, with some kind of achievements, so that people can see that it is a possibility for them. There's so many other Asian Americans that have had, like accomplishments, great accomplishments, and also created impact. Similarly, with the women in manufacturing Hall of Fame, I was actually in the inaugural class. So there is this national organization called the women in manufacturing organizations, because there's so few women in manufacturing and in technology, they wanted to start just recognizing women who are in the industry and making an impact. And I think I got into that, because during my time with hp, that's how I got into digital manufacturing, because at the time, HP was thinking about starting this new business, indie printing and digital manufacturing. The lesson learned from this induction is like I met many other women in more of the traditional manufacturing industry, and learned more about a lot of their contributions. And again, I think it's just giving me more. I felt more obligation to continue to be an advocate, to encourage more women to enter the technology field, enter the manufacturing field, and really find that intersection of their passion, skills and purpose.

Analiza: Sonita, the leadership that you have had in your career is particularly meaningful because Leadership isn't just for you, it's also to reach back and support others. So thank you for that advocacy. We're going to talk more about leadership, and I'd love to hear about your principles, your leadership principles, and how you actually develop these principles.

Sonita: I can share maybe three main buckets of how I look at leadership. I think the first one, especially given my background in technology, I think it's very important for leaders to be customer focused. And Annalisa, I say this because, of course, I've met so many brilliant engineers and scientists, but I think sometimes, like people in technology, have a tendency to focus on the tech itself. And I think a lot of them sometimes don't think too much about the customer. So usually they create something and then somehow it will be adopted, right? And I think my lesson learned especially for people like us. We went to a business school. I think leaders have to be customer focused, because you have to understand the customer pain points, and then whatever that creation has to actually solve real customer problems. And I think in my experience as a leader, I always encourage my team members to really focus on the customer first, and then the second thing is like leaders have to act like owners, especially in a lot of my experiences have been trying to start new businesses right within large companies. And I think as leaders, you need to act like owners, and you need to encourage your team members to like things like owners. I think that's really the difference between being able to successfully, let's say, launch and scale a new business, versus those who are just managing or optimizing like an established business. And then last but not least, I think over time, you also learn that leaders have to develop other leaders, because at the end of the day, you can only achieve so much on your own. But if there are more leaders in your team or in the company, I think more of the organizational goal can be accomplished. And I think years ago, you might also know this author, John Maxwell, I think I read a book, and he basically said there are five levels of leadership. The first level is like you usually start as a positional leader. You become a leader because you become a manager, or you start like managing teams. But he said that's actually the easiest sort of main kind of leadership. The harder leader is someone who can actually build, inspire, build trust, credibility, and inspire other people to, kind of, like, be bigger than themselves. And I felt like that really resonated with me, and especially now right I'm in Portfolio life, I will no longer be the person who say, Oh, do this or do that, but I need to be able to guide the management team so that, I mean, they can think bigger, and they can motivate and inspire their team members in order to really achieve kind of like, the larger goal of The organizations.

Analiza: The perspective here, Sonita, I'm hearing, is that it's so much beyond yourself that you're thinking about not only the customer, but you're thinking like an owner, and you're not even so focused on, let's just own bottom line, but actually invest in my people and together, we will be stronger. So I love that perspective, and it's so wise, right? And as a 22 year old to think that way and orient that way is, I think, would amplify a career very quickly. I want to talk about your success, your marriage successes and many failures. And if you had any fear failures, can you share one failure that you have had along the way, as well as maybe one success moment that you're really proud of. And what your takeaways were from both.

Sonita: The big lesson learned for me was like, I don't think any of my failures really, when you look at the bigger scheme of things, is really a matter of life and death. I mean, most of it is like, sure, like a failed product launch or I didn't get the promotion that I wanted. What I've learned is that failure is actually a really good opportunity to learn and also to build characters. And I think it is your attitude after, let's say, a failure. And I think the difference happens, the difference between those who continue versus those who quit, I think, is big, because I think only those who can learn from their failures and then keep going are the ones that eventually succeed. During my time at HP, we just started this new 3d printing business, and I think it was in our third year and the pandemic happened. And what was interesting Annalisa, I think because 3d printing is a new thing, right? And the type of 3d printing we did was not a consumer, but more industrial scale, scaled printing. And so we had been telling the world that one of the benefits of 3d printing was the ability to have distributed manufacturing, which basically meant you can print the items that you need where it's needed, instead of having to have this big centralized factory and then shipped all over the world. So when the pandemic happened, there were a lot of supply chain disruptions around the world. And luckily for us, we had, like, a lot of locations and also customers and partners around the world. And I remember we really rallied together with our customers and partners, and we were able to print, I think, like, more than 5 million mission critical parts, things like respirator parts, like ventilator parts, face masks, all these things and help a lot of these different locations, I Guess, hospitals around the world that are near our facility, or our customers facilities, and be able to really contribute. And I felt like I look at something like that as a success, because I felt like those are the times where you feel like, wow, like this vision that you've always had.

Analiza: I love the failure, embracing the failure as learning and also being able to celebrate success together. That impact is not a lonely journey. You can actually have your whole team be part of real impact and feel pride, to get pride together. Sonita, I want to talk about your board service. You're relatively young, and you have made this transition portfolio life, most of, not all of our class suites, fellow classmates are working at top seats in companies, and yet you have made the transition. So I want to talk about that, because often we think about board service, and especially for public companies, we say, well, that's got to be you've got to be a CEO CFO. And yet you, as a young person, a female from a tech background, you're on two public boards, as well as an advisor and another corporate private board. Can you talk to us about your board journey?

Sonita: I think I'm more of an accidental board in the beginning. So I first got ping, maybe around 2017 time frame. I was still with Siemens at the time, again in their new business. I helped Siemens to launch their new digital energy business. And one day, I got a call from one of the recruiting firms, and they said, Hey, like, there is an energy company that wanted to talk to you for a potential board position. And to be honest with you, at the time, I wasn't thinking about board. And also, it turned out that Siemens is a really big supplier for this company, so there's a conflict of interest, and I couldn't pursue it. However, that experience got me the idea that, hey, actually, it is possible to join a board while you're still a sitting executive. And so that got me thinking, if I get a call again, and if there is no conflict, I would love to pursue it. But also, what I learned and Elisa is that people always ask, how do you get on board? And I have to say, everyone has a different journey. And I think in my particular case, it just so happened when a board position became available. And usually, as we all know, for public companies, it happens when someone either retires or the board purposefully wants to expand the number of board seats, because they're looking for specific expertise, right? And I think in my case, it just so happened with some of these companies. When the board position became available, my expertise seemed to fit with what they're looking for at that particular time. But anyway, fast forward, like several years later, I was already at HP, and then I got another call from another recruiting company, and this time was for a potential board position with sun run. Sun run is in the business of consumer solar and battery as a service. And actually, prior to HP, I've had many experiences, like, 15 years or so in the smart energy business, so there's a good fit. But I think what really made me kind of like accept, I guess the offer was during the interview process, I felt that the mission and values of the company align with my own. And also I felt there's a good cultural fit with the current board, which I think is very important, because sometimes even though you have the skill set and all that, but if there is no good culture fit with the board, then sometimes during difficult or challenging the board culture is not healthy as such that you can advance the goal of the corporation, right? And so I felt with sun run, at least there's a good culture fit with the current board. My values are aligned with the company's mission and values. And so when they gave me the offer, I very gladly accepted it, and then about six months later, actually, I had the opportunity to join through blue, which is in the workforce solutions company business. And to be honest with you, I had no experience in Workforce Solutions. However, the company was undergoing tremendous change, and they were undergoing big transformation because they had to change the way they do business, again, leveraging technology in order not to be disrupted. And somehow, even though the industry itself is not what I have experienced before, the type of challenges that they were faced with was a good fit with my experience. Again, they are actually very mission driven companies. So they connect blue collar workers with work. I think the past three years, we have connected more than 2 million people to work. I felt like the mission and values kind of align with my own, and also there's a good fit with the current board. And I have to say, Annalisa, I'm very grateful for HPs. I joined both my public boards while still a city executive there, and I share this with the audience, because maybe most of the audience of this podcast are still in their operating role. And so if you're thinking about potential board service, it's important, I think, to know whether your company supports that, and then making sure that they actually are okay with it right before you go on the journey. And in that case, I was quite fortunate that HP would let me do that as long as, of course, there's no conflict of interest. And so I guess the lesson learned for me is like, no matter how your board journey starts, because, as I said, everyone has a different kind of journey. But when the opportunity comes, and if it's a good fit, I think you should feel confident to take it and then just realize that if you join a board while still a sitting executive. You just have to be very careful with regards to balancing between being an operator and being an advisor, because I think for a lot of people who join their boards while they're still sitting executive, there's a tendency to want to lead and manage and grow, and that's really not your role, because as a board member, you need to guide and oversee. So I think it's important for those of you who might be thinking about board service while still a city executive, to just be able to threaten the delicate balance.

Analiza: Sonita, you talked about board culture, and I want to go deeper on that you recently got elected as one of the commissioners for the National Association of Corporate Directors. Congratulations. Blue Rubin commission on board culture. Can you talk about why board culture is important?

Sonita: Yes, board culture is very important Analiza, and sometimes you would truly know what the culture is like until you've experienced it. Right? A lot of people talk about culture, but what is culture? Exactly right? It's kind of this nebulous thing. I think culture is really a set of shared values, behaviors and norms that a group of people subscribe to in order to achieve a shared goal. And as you can imagine, right these days, a lot of companies are faced with so many challenges, like we all know that last year was high interest rates and inflation. We don't know what it will be like this year. And then, from a technology perspective, there is AI, there are, there are technology disruptions that will disrupt some companies. And then there are geopolitical issues that people have to deal with. And so among all of these challenges, I think a strong and healthy board culture is very important, so that each of the board members with their different perspective and expertise should feel comfortable to kind of like, discuss tough issues, challenge each other from time to time, challenge management from time to time in order to come to a decision that is more optimal, and I think a strong and healthy board culture will eventually make the decision more robust and more optimal, and that's why a healthy board culture is important, even though everyone knows culture is important. But I think very few boards take the time to really talk about it. Do we have a healthy board culture, or are we the kind of board where maybe two, three people that are the most senior make the decisions and the others follow? Do we make decisions in the boardroom? Or are there side conversations that are going on outside, and then decisions already made outside. And then when, when it's brought to the boardroom, it's just for rubber stamping. Those are the kind of things that I think create unhealthy board culture when there is a faction among the boards, when people don't feel comfortable to engage or to discuss tough issues or to challenge each other. And I think a healthy board culture is very important, because at the end of the day, the board is a fiduciary to shareholders, right? And in order to do your job well, you have to encourage, I think, healthy debates and discussions in the boardroom.

Analiza: I absolutely agree, we're going to move to lightning round. So before we do, I'd love to hear wisdom, if you could please Sonita, about how to climb the leadership ladder and technology, especially if you're a female and maybe even a young female. What advice would you give?

Sonita: Yes, I think we all know careers, a journey is a marathon, and so like, Don't be anxious if you're in the beginning of your journey. Just enjoy it. Embrace change. Don't be afraid to make mistakes and learn from your mistakes, right? I think the other thing, especially for women in the corporate world, is to look for both mentors and sponsors, and both men and women, because at the end of the day, sure, I think a mentor is important. You exchange ideas with your mentor, but I think a sponsor is also important, because these are the people who usually are more advanced in their career, much more advanced in the organization, who are willing to advocate for you to get opportunities right, and then last but not least, again. Annalisa, I think I've mentioned this before, but I want to mention it again. I would like to encourage everyone to really think about how they can pursue that combination of passion, skills and purpose.

Analiza: Beautiful. All right, here we go for lightning, round chocolate or vanilla?

Sonita: Vanilla.

Analiza: Cooking or take out?

Sonita: Take out.

Analiza: Climb a mountain or jump from a plane?

Sonita: Wow. Jump from a plane.

Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Sonita: No.

Analiza: How would you rate your karaoke skills on a skill of one to ten, ten being Mariah Carey?

Sonita: I'm three, three or four.

Analiza: What's a recent book you read?

Sonita: I haven't read a book recently, but one podcast that I would encourage everyone to listen to it's called How to lead an asymmetric life. I love that you guys can Google it. It's really good. What's your favorite way to practice self care? Oh, just going to the gym and going out for dinner with friends and family. What's a good professional development you've done. I go to a lot of conferences, both as a speaker, as an attendee, and I think those are really good, because usually you meet with peers, you learn from each other, from other practitioners, and the things that you learn are very practical.

Analiza: What's your definition of a boss mama?

Sonita: I think that is this tendency for women, right? I've read somewhere that if you're a woman and you're aggressive, people have a double standard for a woman versus a man. I think at the end of the day, you just have to be yourself. If you're an aggressive type, then be aggressive. If you're not that type, then that's okay, too.

Analiza: What advice would you give your younger self?

Sonita: Oh, I think the advice I would give my younger self is just not to be afraid. Actually, the earlier you can feel comfortable with being uncomfortable. I think that will be your superpower, because most people will be like most people who will be uncomfortable with being uncomfortable. And then, Sonia, where can we find you? LinkedIn, anywhere else?

Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn. I'm on, I guess, x as well. I have my own website called Sonitalontoh.com

Analiza: And then final question, Can you share any recommendations, parting thoughts with us.

Sonita: I have to say, enjoy the journey. Learn from from the journey, from the mistakes and like make your contributions

Analiza: Beautiful Sonita. Thank you. Congratulations on all the accomplishments. I'm really honored to know you.

Sonita: Thank you so much. Analiza. Hopefully the conversation has been helpful.

Analiza 35:04 Thank you so much for carving out time to hear today's podcast. 3 things before you go. First, if you found it helpful, please leave a five star review. Second, you can get a free chapter of my book, The Myth of Success: A Woman of Color's Guide to Leadership at analizawolf.com/freechapter. And lastly, if you're interested in executive coaching, please reach out to me at analiza@analizawolf.com. Thank you so very much.