Analiza: Welcome to the Women of Color Rise podcast. I'm Analiza Quiroz Wolf, proud Filipino-American executive leadership coach and former CEO of a nonprofit and Captain in the U.S. Air Force. I'm also the author of The Myth of Success: A Woman of Color's Guide to Leadership. It's based on the lessons learned by many women of color leaders, including those on this podcast. We talk with successful CEOs and C-suite women leaders of color and learn about their leadership journeys. I'm on a mission to support having more diverse leaders at the table. If you're a woman or a woman of color who wants to sit at that table, you're in the right place. Now let's get into today's show. I'm thrilled to be with Khady Kamara Nunez, today, she is the executive director of Perelman Performing Arts Center, and has had over two decades, in fact, 24 years, over 24 years in theater management. Before she was at PAC NYC, she was executive director of second stage theater, and it's amazing because there she was part of the leadership team that won a Tony Award for take me out. It's incredible, Khady, to get into your career. You have so much background, so let's get into it. Thank you so much for being here.

Khady: Thank you so much for having me. I'm looking forward to having fun in this conversation.

Analiza: Let's start with your identity. How do you identify, and how has your identity shaped your career?

Khady: I am a Black woman who is an immigrant. I was born and raised in Senegal, which is in West Africa. Most of my family is still there, actually, and I was surrounded growing up by strong black women who were career driven, and that has been a north pole for me as I became an adult and started my own career.

Analiza: So Khady, where did the theater interests come in? Were they also leaders in theater or art?

Khady: Well, thank you. No, absolutely not. I grew up with a mother who loved the arts and took me to a lot of fun experiences, but never was it a consideration to have it as part of a career path. When I immigrated to the US, I moved, after graduating from high school to go to college in upstate New York, way upstate New York, and I intended to have a business degree. I actually was majoring in economics, and I went to see a play. The school that I went to is called Wells college. It's in a small town, and there was an incredible theater program in the village. And so I went to see this play by AFL fu guard, my children, my Africa, and I had seen plays before. I had been involved in the arts before, but something changed in me. The story had such an impact on me that I went home, called my mother, it was an expensive phone call, and I said, I know what I want to do for my career. I'm gonna be in the theater. And my mother hung up on me and said to my sister, who was a little closer at the time and so a little less of an expensive phone call, and said, Please set your daughter, your sister, straight. We're not doing this. And my mother raised a very strong young woman, and there's a little bit of stubbornness and a little bit of belief in this passion, and that's what led me into a career in the arts.

Analiza: Khadi, we have to talk about this, the conviction, because when you describe it, tracked for business, inspired, it sounds like by a night, an incredible experience, then having the guts to call your mom and knowing that no matter what she said or however she felt or whether she hung up on you, that you would stay the course. That's, to me, a bit of an oxymoron as an Asian woman and wanting to please my parents, my community, that success is business. How? How did you stand on this conviction?

Khady: That's a fair question. I don't know that I knew back then, after that first conversation that I. Arts was going to be everything. I just knew that there was so much interest and so much curiosity on my end that I wanted to explore it, and my mother and I compromised. I continued studying my business background, but I also majored in theater, and I was able to experience all aspects of theater throughout my undergraduate studies, and was able to figure out what I enjoyed the most, and because I was exploring different aspects, I was on stage, not for a long time. I was not very good at it. I worked behind the scenes and really finding my niche in the storytelling that is marketing and sales was where I found my way. And there's just lots of conversations with my family. Initially, my mother, ultimately, only wanted my happiness and wanted to secure my future and my stability, and I was able to convince her, over the years and through my different career positions, that there is a path to being stable and fulfilled professionally in the arts.

Analiza: Okay, Khady, please map that out, because I know other girls, people with aspirations to be in theater, also parents who are concerned. I want you to have a good life. We say advice. I want to support you. Also want to make sure you're not on the streets, not having a child. Can you map that out and say, okay, for all the parents out there, there is a viable career. I mean, you've had a fantastic career. You don't necessarily need to win a Tony like you did, but what is that path so that you can put us at ease as parents? It's going to be okay.

Khady: I can speak to my path, but interestingly enough, I have one of my nieces who is interested in going into the arts, and she actually wants to be an actress. And her mother, my cousin, has been calling me and saying she's about to graduate high school, she's going to college, she's going to throw her life away. Please help me. And since her husband, she's 18, let her try so that she has no regrets. So either try and thrive and be amazing and be fantastic, and that's great, or she'll try and she'll find that she doesn't care for it, or she doesn't like it, or there's just not what her pathway is, and it's okay to attempt something, to take a chance, to have no regrets, and to adjust and to pivot. And that's been the conversation that I've been having with my cousin about my niece. And life is short, and it's not that one choice dictates the entirety of your life, you'll make millions of choices and decisions, and as long as you have the ability to pivot, you can succeed, you can thrive. And that's what's driven my path. I moved from upstate New York because it was way too cold, to Washington, DC, and because after I graduated college, and because of my experience in theater and my love of theater, I automatically looked for a position in the arts, and so I started working at Arena Stage. When I first started working, my conversation with my mother was, well, if this doesn't work out, I'll I'm in DC. I'll see if the World Bank is firing, right? I'll see if IFC is firing, then we'll see what happens. And it just so happened that I was so lucky that I had mentors that saw the potential in me, saw my drive, so my interest and invested in me, and I was able to continue to grow within and to to hone in on my skills and to build this craft, and that that's what got me to where I am.

Analiza: Khady, it's this mentality that I hear from you that I don't necessarily need to have the whole path figured out. I'll take the next smart step and allow it to unfold, and also allow it to be okay, that maybe the door isn't the right one to continue pursuing, there'll be another door. There'll be another door. So I want to, I want to talk about that, because would you say that that has been one of the keys to your success? I mean, you've had such leadership and had such success each step of the journey, it seems, based on learning about you. And I'm curious, would you say that that has been the journey of trusting each path and not having regrets?

Khady: I think for me, first and foremost, having the ability to pivot and to adjust to the environment that you're in, having the ability and the willingness. To take risk and know that you will fail, not sometime, not not, hopefully, not all the time, but there will be moments of learnings and then being authentic with yourself and your values right, understanding what your values are, and making sure that that is your north pole as you make decisions as to what's next for you professionally.

Analiza: Khady, can we go into the specifics of that? Because I hear the pivot. The pivot is, let's give it a go. If it doesn't work out, we're going to pivot. I want to talk about this failure piece. It's art, it's theater. These failures, if looking at different industries, it's more public and there it just feels heavier. Can you talk about a moment in your career that comes to mind when, ah, failure, here we go. Here's how I'm going to be able to overcome it.

Khady: Oh, the biggest moment of my career, where I struggled the most was within the first year of the pandemic, and being in a position where decisions had to be made around people's livelihoods, around the organization's strategy in order to survive long term that had an impact on people's lives. Short term, most immediately, was so tough and not having a roadmap, right? That was the biggest challenge growing up professionally. The one thing that mentors always shared with me was it's been done before. Just learn from others. Educate yourself. There is not a roadmap as to how to operate in the midst of a pandemic, and so there are choices that were made by myself and other leaders in the industry that I certainly have regretted. But it's learning from those decisions and the consequences of your decisions, and building from that has been the key learning for me how to learn, how to grow and how to make different mistakes, not the same, to continue to to grow.

Analiza 12:29 I do want to highlight Hadi that mistakes are okay, but try not to make the same ones again. Exactly. That's exactly right, Hadi, let's talk about the third piece you mentioned. First, pivot. Second, embrace failure. Third is, know your values. Can you talk about a moment in your journey when you had to really come back to those values to help guide either face, whatever the event you're facing is, or guide your next decision?

Analiza: Let's actually bring that up and make it even more explicit, because it does matter that there is diversity at the table, the proverbial table, because it does impact not just bottom line, but our communities and I would love if you would mind to talk about maybe a concept show, a story that you because of your background, were able to bring to life because of your identity.

Khady: Oh, whenever we seek to speak of diversity, it's important to say it's never one person, right? It's always a team. It's always a group. That's the way that success happens. That's the way that change happens. So when I first started at the second stage. We were going to reopen the Hays theater on Broadway with a play by Lynn Nottage called Clydes. And the play was focused on workforce re entry for formerly incarcerated individuals, and as a team, as an organization, and with Glenn, the playwright, we had conversations about how we wanted to reopen, and one thing that was crucial for us was to make sure that the storyline on stage was also amplified through partnerships and relationships of people that were impacted and whose lives were, whose stories were being told on stage. And so we had different partnerships that we created where we were able to have organizations that worked in prison reform and workforce re entry come in to testify and provide a platform for people to tell their stories. We were also able to live stream one of the performances at Rikers for a group of individuals, and we received a letter from one of those individuals, and that thanked us for telling their story, and that thanked us for showing a little bit of representation, and that's an example of change. We also did a job fair that was focused on workforce re entry, and we did it with other arts organizations here in New York. We did it with arts adjacent entities such as restaurants and hotels. And the whole point of that was, yes, it starts with a story, but a story about reality and how we make impact in community meaningfully. We grew from that as an organization. I grew from that as an individual. And that's how you affect change. But that was an entire team, right? There was not one individual person that drove this. It was truly a team effort and a belief, and one a belief in wanting to make change.

Analiza: Beautiful. I want to emphasize for me how much it's about also being seen. I see you and your past and the stakes aren't the defining factor for you or anyone. So I love that so much. Khady, are you ready for lightning round questions?

Khady: Yes.

Analiza: Here we go chocolate or vanilla?

Khady: Vanilla.

Analiza: Cooking or takeout?

Khady: I really should say cooking, but no takeout.

Analiza: Climb a mountain or jump from a plane?

Khady: Jump from a plane.

Analiza: Have you ever worn socks with sandals?

Khady: I can't say I have.

Analiza: How would you rate your karaoke skills on a scale of one to ten, ten being Mariah Carey.

Khady: Minus 10? Terrible.

Analiza: What's the recent book you read?

Khady: I am currently reading a personal finance book called Money for Couples by Ramit Sethi. I'm newly married, and so my husband and I are navigating the whole merging finances together.

Analiza: What is your favorite way to practice self care?

Khady: I make sure that the first thing I do in the morning is not pick up my phone and check my emails. I actually have forced myself to go to the pool and swim because I cannot be distracted by a ringtone or by an email ping, so that's been a priority.

Analiza: What's a good professional development you've done?

Khady: Find ways to gather people who have similar experiences, whether through an organization, an association, or just by yourself, but being able to learn from others happens by building community, and so find ways to get gatherings of people who have similar lived experiences here.

Analiza: What's your definition of a Boss Mama?

Khady: Be your authentic self every day.

Analiza: What advice would you give your younger self?

Khady: Stop worrying so much, it will work out.

Analiza: And then, where can we find you? LinkedIn, anywhere else?

Khady: LinkedIn, Instagram, threads, Facebook, Khady Kamara Nunez.

Analiza: And then last question, do you have a final ask recommendation or parting thoughts to share?

Khady: No, I think this was just such a great conversation. I'm so glad that we packed it.

Analiza: Khady, thank you so much for your stories and also being a leader in a field that needs your leadership. So very grateful to you. Thank you. Thank you.

Khady: Thank you so much for your time, such a pleasure.

Analiza: Thank you so much for carving out time to hear today's podcast. 3 things before you go. First, if you found it helpful, please leave a five star review. Second, you can get a free chapter of my book, The Myth of Success: A Woman of Color's Guide to Leadership at analizawolf.com/freechapter. And lastly, if you're interested in executive coaching, please reach out to me at analiza@analizawolf.com. Thank you so very much.